Attention All Breeders Involved In The Rescue Scene

[Loreley]

This post has been done on the main DOL general info board, but I thought it prudent to copy it here for you just in case.

I have been informed that a friend of mine and breeder has been targeted by the RSPCA regarding the new laws that have not even been passed yet.

They came out, inspected her premises and both the council ranger and rspca rep advised her the system is wonderful, but if they have more than the allowable number of dogs (even desexed, disabled or in foster care with them) they will be seized and destroyed, there was no if or but. These are healthy, well adjusted dogs, some in their twilight years enjoying retirement, breeding/working dogs, and young ones waiting to be homed.

If you are a breeder in Victoria, take care, read up on the new laws so that you are prepared !!

Oh by the way, this breeder was identified because she involved in the rescue scene, and had taken dogs in when at risk.

So I can only assume that they are wanting to remove any breeders that are connected to rescue groups, talk about cutting your nose off and spiting your face.

You all need to unite, regardless of which breed you breed, of petty differences you may have had, if this law is passed not only will you be restricted in how many dogs you are allowed on your property at all times, but you will basically be unable to take any of your dogs back if the need arises as a responsible breeder generally does for fear that you will lose one of your breeding stock as a result.

Seriously consider writing/emailing your state rep and their counter part in government. Get in touch with the newspapers, the TV and the Radio - you have to stop this madness.

[minimax]

Is this first hand, or second/third hand info? Sounds a bit rumour-like...

[_PL_]

Could very well be based in fact but it's very thin on useful information that you ought to be contacting the media or government about. I get that new laws never work like they should and there is a lot of angst in NSW about the bizarre proposals here.

However I thought the number of allowable dogs was actually the current law in VIC under councils that choose to impose by-laws or development approvals? Is this being revised at state level?

[sas]

I'm not even sure that is legally possible.

[Loreley]

Is this first hand, or second/third hand info? Sounds a bit rumour-like...

This breeder had the visit only a day ago no it is not a rumour I wish it was. I am still trying to locate a copy of the proposed legislation.

[Loreley]

I'm not even sure that is legally possible.

What being legal, restricting the maximum numbers of say dogs you are allowed to have on a specific property across the state, of course they can. There are council limits in various parts of the country, in the ACT if you're not a registered breeder you cannot have any more than 4 dogs. All they are doing in Victoria is extending this thinking to the breeding community.

[Alkhe]

Yeah, I'm extremely skeptical at the best of times, but this sounds fishy. You can't investigate something based on laws that haven't passed yet.

If someone has more than the allowable number of dogs on their property without a permit, they're breaching their council's regulations. It doesn't matter if they're a breeder, rescuer, or whatever. Everyone is restricted in the number of dogs they can have at one time by their council - some councils have allowances for breeders or additional animals, etc etc. That's not some new law that's being enforced before it's passed, that's been part of life for decades.

Sometimes horrible things happen, but this just sounds like a conspiracy to me.

[Alkhe]

I'm not even sure that is legally possible.

What being legal, restricting the maximum numbers of say dogs you are allowed to have on a specific property across the state, of course they can. There are council limits in various parts of the country, in the ACT if you're not a registered breeder you cannot have any more than 4 dogs. All they are doing in Victoria is extending this thinking to the breeding community.

How is the breeding community ever exempt from council bylaws?

And what is the 'breeding community' anyway? ANKC registered breeders? People who are registered as Domestic Animal Businesses in their council? BYBs? Any or all of the above? Everyone has to comply with council regulations- they may apply differently to different people, but there's no such thing as a cohesive 'breeding community' (as DOL is evidence of ;) )

[Alkhe]

Is this first hand, or second/third hand info? Sounds a bit rumour-like...

This breeder had the visit only a day ago no it is not a rumour I wish it was. I am still trying to locate a copy of the proposed legislation.

The proposed legislation will be available on legislation.vic.gov.au under the Bills section.

Regardless, nobody is authorised to conduct any investigations pursuant to legislation that hasn't been enacted. I have serious issues with what the RSPCA does and doesn't do in many scenarios - but it's ridiculous to suggest that they would put resources into investigating somebody because hte'yre a breeder and rescuer, for issues under proposed legislation.

By all means, this person was probably investigated. But it was probably because they haven't got their council permits etc in order. Which is fair enough - regulations are there for everyone to see and abide by. If you don't abide by them, don't jump up and down when you're called on it.

[garnali]

Have seen this posted through facebook..

Dont know that it was a breeder but person enquired about a dog in RSPCA shelter and has since come under scrutiny as has too many dogs without a permit..

We all need to be aware of our local restrictions and abide by them..

ACT is now 3 dogs without a permit... Unregistered rescues have only 3 months grace before they need to be council registered. Permits are difficult to get.. Neighbours are contacted and waste disposal must be correct..

I havent rescued for a while as have 3 dogs here and one is a failed foster as unrehomable (fear aggression)..

If it is the same person I am thinking of they have 5 or six dogs in residential area. Not sure what council but they have been quite upset by the need to rehome dogs.

[Alkhe]

Have seen this posted through facebook..

Dont know that it was a breeder but person enquired about a dog in RSPCA shelter and has since come under scrutiny as has too many dogs without a permit..

We all need to be aware of our local restrictions and abide by them..

ACT is now 3 dogs without a permit... Unregistered rescues have only 3 months grace before they need to be council registered. Permits are difficult to get.. Neighbours are contacted and waste disposal must be correct..

I havent rescued for a while as have 3 dogs here and one is a failed foster as unrehomable (fear aggression)..

If it is the same person I am thinking of they have 5 or six dogs in residential area. Not sure what council but they have been quite upset by the need to rehome dogs.

Yep, that'll do it. That sounds like a more reasonable explanation. Chinese whispers don't help anyone.

[Perry's Mum]

I know the person involved - she is a breeder and rescuer and as a result has ended up with several older dogs and some disabled dogs which have not been able to be rehomed.

She lived in a very rural area and has been there for 13 years without problems. There have been no issues until the new legislation came in.

If the old and disabled dogs are seized it will be a death sentence for them since they cannot easily be rehomed. How can this be right in the eyes of an organisation supposedly set up to look after animal welfare?

It will result in one rescue which has rehomed over 100 dogs each year being closed down.

The RSPCA admit that all the dogs are well cared for and in very good condition.

[garnali]

I guess the main thing for ALL dog owners is to know your local council's by laws.

I too have lived in remote areas.. Residential housing zones have different rules to those on large properties.

I lived in the snowy mountains and the regulation for the block I lived on was 2 dogs.. Next door was a 30 acre property with no limit in place.

I do feel for this person as decisions are difficult.. I would not want to see her dogs pts..

Would you feel the same way if she had 7 children in a five seater car? Rules are there to protect everyone no matter how wrong they seem. We all rode in the back of ute's unsecured as kids. Now they must be restrained or in appropriate seats.

Dont mean to be harsh but PLEASE check your local council by laws before fostering/ rehoming dogs.

[minimax]

I know the person involved - she is a breeder and rescuer and as a result has ended up with several older dogs and some disabled dogs which have not been able to be rehomed.

She lived in a very rural area and has been there for 13 years without problems. There have been no issues until the new legislation came in.

If the old and disabled dogs are seized it will be a death sentence for them since they cannot easily be rehomed. How can this be right in the eyes of an organisation supposedly set up to look after animal welfare?

It will result in one rescue which has rehomed over 100 dogs each year being closed down.

The RSPCA admit that all the dogs are well cared for and in very good condition.

Did she have more dogs than she was permitted?

No one is above the law. Why do so many people think they are special and don't need to abide by the rules, and then play the victim when they get caught out?

[~Anne~]

What a difficult situation she is in.

It seems from where I am standing is that she either needs to apply for a special permit, assuming there is one, to keep the extra dogs or she needs to re-home a few.

Is there an option to apply for a kennel license or something that would enable her to have more dogs on the property? Sorry, I a, not up on recent law changes.

Disabled and old dogs can be rehomed. I've rehomed several disabled pugs, including one that was deaf and blind and had never lived inside. Ever tried training a 9 year old deaf and blind dog?

[~Anne~]

If it is true that she also enquirer after a dog that was already essentially 'rescued' to add to her over number brood then she has acted foolishly.

Still, that doesn't help the current situation. She needs to explore her options. Petitioning and looking to do battle is not going to help her individual circumstance at this point.

[JRG]

There are no "new laws" as yet.

There is a proposal for a new code for the keeping and breeding of animals in Victoria which was up for consultation a few weeks ago.

I understand that it is now back with the department for review and will be out again for further consultation in the not too distant future.

The proposed requirements for people who have more than 3 dogs and who are not members of approved organisations were horrendous and these requirements also applied to members of approved organisations who have 10 or more dogs.

One of the criticisms was the the authorities do not police the old regulations so why make new ones? - maybe they have been "stung" into action!

[Steve]

Ive spoken about this in the news section - but this isnt about any proposed new legislation.

These laws and codes have already been in place and have been actively enforced for some time now.

The simple fact is that council gets to say how many animals you can have on your property at any time.

The new codes which are on the table will make no difference to this - in fact one of the proposals actually will allow a breeder to have up to 120 dogs on their property with only one person looking after them.

The codes and laws pertaining to breeding and shelters cover such things as how many fertile animals you can have on your property with and without permits but no matter where you live in Victoria if you have more than 2 dogs on your property whether you breed or not you have to have council approval.

This exact situation is common but its also a risk factor for too many animals for one person to cope with, too many animals for the neighbours to enjoy living beside etc.

Recently we saw a 'PUPPY FARMER' splashed all over the news but at the time of the illegal film footage she only had a couple of breeding animals on her property and no puppies.Her numbers had gradually increased due to her older dogs staying with her all their lives and the dogs she had rescued of her breed and she was having trouble coping with the work load. Someone dobbed her in,her dogs were in good nick and she was given a dead line time to update her kennels to fit the new codes which are already in - which she didn't make on time - that had nothing to do with the proposed codes either.

All of us - ordinary dog owners, breeders and rescue have to be clear about the numbers we are legally able to own and the numbers we can look after without compromising their quality of life.

We all have choices and I feel for her but if we want to breed or rescue we need to consider how we manage that will impact on how many of our own animals can stay and whether we are prepared to keep the number to a legal and welfare limit.

This isn't about why you keep the animals on your property or motivations its about the level of care and the number of animals a property can cope with depending on the infra structure etc.

There isn't any point in petitioning and yelling about it and calling it that someone has done the wrong thing - she needs to see that she is one of the lucky ones - could have been much worse - and make the necessary decisions to help her to sleep at night and comply with codes and laws.

[Steve]

Lets be clear about this - the current laws in Victoria - not new codes which are proposed the current laws see anyone who breeds dogs without the necessary permits to be an illegal puppy farmer. No matter where you live or what size your property is or how long you have been doing or what your motivations are or whether you have the best dam facilities and healthiest animals in the world etc that is the way it is. They have given her a chance to sort this out without seizing her dogs and charging her and she had better take it and quickly. She needs a permit to keep more than 2 dogs , there are requirements she has to work under if she is a shelter and there are codes she has to work under if she is a breeder but she needs the permits.

[sas]

I'm not even sure that is legally possible.

What being legal, restricting the maximum numbers of say dogs you are allowed to have on a specific property across the state, of course they can. There are council limits in various parts of the country, in the ACT if you're not a registered breeder you cannot have any more than 4 dogs. All they are doing in Victoria is extending this thinking to the breeding community.

I meant taking dogs and killing them for simply being over numbers...one would think there would be a warning system / an opportunity afforded to the owner to reduce numbers first.