Can Anything Be Done About Online Auction Site Listing Banned /restric

[ricey]

I have a friend who used to have a Dogo. Possibly the only genuine Dogo in Australia but maybe there were others. Rachel's Dogo was female and sterilised, and her Dogo is now dead. Rachel's Dogo came with her from France around 5 years ago and managed to sneak in (with Rachel's American Pit Bull terrier). Both of Rachel's "banned dogs" have now died.

I'd think that anyone who is offering Dogos for sale in Australia is just pissing in the wind or just pissing in your pocket. I'd love to have a Dogo; big white pit bull that was bred to be dog friendly. Everything good about pit bulls with none of the down sides. Having said that, it is a pity that they only live 8 or 9 years at most. My pittie Hobbes is 13 years old and he'd have to have another 2 or 3 years left in him at least.

Really though, I think that we all should chill out a bit about these "banned dogs" and the people who are breeding them and advertising them for sale in Gumtree and eBay.

Me, I'd be happy to think that there are people out there breeding good examples of American Pit Bull Terriers. But I am not happy; I'd think that most are breeding shit dogs. Really, the only pit bulls in Australia being bred right now are questionable as to their breeding. Good bye to the well bred dogs, good bye.

ricey

[blakkjackal]

I'd love to have a Dogo; big white pit bull that was bred to be dog friendly.

This is actually not a great description of a dogo, they are quite a different dog compared to the APBT. And most of them aren't dog friendly either (dog friendly to me means that they will tolerate most dogs). Dogos rarely get along with the same sex and I know of several people who have had to separate their own pack because of their dogos not getting along and that is something you should be prepared for. A pit bull is a lot more "terrier" in nature than a dogo, which is a full on molosser. They are very protective which isn't an attribute pit bulls often possess.

[ricey]

I'd love to have a Dogo; big white pit bull that was bred to be dog friendly.

This is actually not a great description of a dogo, they are quite a different dog compared to the APBT. And most of them aren't dog friendly either (dog friendly to me means that they will tolerate most dogs). Dogos rarely get along with the same sex and I know of several people who have had to separate their own pack because of their dogos not getting along and that is something you should be prepared for. A pit bull is a lot more "terrier" in nature than a dogo, which is a full on molosser. They are very protective which isn't an attribute pit bulls often possess.

Actually, Antonio Nores Martínez (the original breeder of the Dogo Argentino) specifically bred Dogo Argentinos to allow better socialisation with other dogs and as such, they are well suited for group environments. If the Dogos that you have experience of are not good with other dogs, then they are not good examples of the breed. Dogos were bred to hunt large animals in packs; they therefore had to focus their aggression on the target animal, not each other. Dogos should get along with other pets in most rural and urban settings ranging from a complete outdoor farm dog to urban housing with a small yard, to crowded apartment buildings. Because aggressive traits were purposely bred out, attacks on humans or other pets are extremely rare (or should be; Dogos that bite humans or attack other pets are not good examples of the breed, and certainly should not be bred from).

So, well bred Dogos are like big white pit bulls in appearance, but they should not be dog aggressive. Not all pit bulls are dog aggressive either, but some can be. Dogos shouldn't be, ever. And most of the pit bulls that I have had experience of are very protective of their humans, and to say that this is an attribute that pit bulls don't often possess is simply not true.

Cheers,

ricey

Edited November 22, 2013 by ricey

[blakkjackal]

So I guess the Cordoba Fighting Dog background is irrelevant when it comes to the social nature of a Dogo... Group environments, yes for sure. They are very pack orientated. But unknown dogs and dogs that aren't a part of the already-formed pack? In most cases you will find it quite hard to "dog proof" your Dogo. I'm quite well aware of the type of hunting these dogs are used in.

Most Dogos I know will try to eliminate all intruders that try to access their yard. Be it a pet or a human, they are fierce guardians.

Pit bulls were bred with extreme human friendliness in mind and most pit bulls I know (the game bred variety) don't guard and most definitely don't deter strangers from accessing the yards they're kept in. There's plenty of other more suitable breeds for those duties.

...Also. Did you just quote Wikipedia on those Dogo "facts"?

Edited November 22, 2013 by Hockz

[ricey]

So I guess the Cordoba Fighting Dog background is irrelevant when it comes to the social nature of a Dogo... Group environments, yes for sure. They are very pack orientated. But unknown dogs and dogs that aren't a part of the already-formed pack? In most cases you will find it quite hard to "dog proof" your Dogo. I'm quite well aware of the type of hunting these dogs are used in.

Most Dogos I know will try to eliminate all intruders that try to access their yard. Be it a pet or a human, they are fierce guardians.

Pit bulls were bred with extreme human friendliness in mind and most pit bulls I know (the game bred variety) don't guard and most definitely don't deter strangers from accessing the yards they're kept in. There's plenty of other more suitable breeds for those duties.

...Also. Did you just quote Wikipedia on those Dogo "facts"?

Hi there,

just how many Dogos have you have experience with in South Australia? Unless you have spent a lot of time in South America, I'd suggest that you probably have not had too much experience with Dogos. The Dogo is a hunting dog, in a similar way to the Ridgeback, the "pig dog", or any other hunting dog. The source dogs for the Dogo included pit bulls, great danes, dalmatians, and so on. I do not pretend to know everything there is to know about Dogos, but I do know a lot about the American Pit Bull terrier. To say that American Pit Bull terriers would not guard their humans is to deny one of their attributes.

Cheers,

ricey

[blakkjackal]

What makes you think I was born and raised in South Australia? Or that my experience with dogos is limited to this state/country?

Edited November 22, 2013 by Hockz

[ricey]

Hi,

You list your state as SA, and as I am not clairvoyant I don't know anything else about you. You do seem to like being somewhat confrontational, and that is your prerogative.

However, there are stuff all Dogos in Australia and probably none in South Australia, so unless you have spent considerable time in South America, your actual experience of Dogos will be limited to what you have read about them. If your experience of Dogos is actual, perhaps you would be so kind as to outline it here.

Cheers,

ricey

p.s. and whatever your experience is with Dogos, your assertion that American Pit Bull terriers would not defend their humans is wrong.

[blakkjackal]

Hi,

You list your state as SA, and as I am not clairvoyant I don't know anything else about you. You do seem to like being somewhat confrontational, and that is your prerogative.

However, there are stuff all Dogos in Australia and probably none in South Australia, so unless you have spent considerable time in South America, your actual experience of Dogos will be limited to what you have read about them. If your experience of Dogos is actual, perhaps you would be so kind as to outline it here.

Cheers,

ricey

p.s. and whatever your experience is with Dogos, your assertion that American Pit Bull terriers would not defend their humans is wrong.

You assumed. I prefer not to make any kind of assumptions when all the info I know about the person is their current state.

I come from a country with no BSL whatsoever and several active Dogo breeders. I also know several people with Dogos and there's one thing in common with both the breeders and the owners. Do not trust a Dogo around strange dogs, they are prone to aggression towards dogs they are not familiar with. And that is fine, really, it's just something that has to be accepted when/if you get a D.A. Same with the pit bull really. I mean, no one would buy a pit bull with the intention of frequenting busy dog parks and expecting them to be super tolerant, always and with anyone? At least I hope not (unfortunately I know this happens).

A few responsible breeders actually even note this on their website under "common issues".

[Zhou Xuanyao]

So It's better to have banned breeds blatantly sold against the law?

Yes. Pitbulls are today arguably more ubiquitous than they've ever been; we'lI fight these laws every step if the way until they're dead in the water and our breed will emerge better than ever. You don't protest law buy obeying it.

[sandgrubber]

So It's better to have banned breeds blatantly sold against the law?

Yes. Pitbulls are today arguably more ubiquitous than they've ever been; we'lI fight these laws every step if the way until they're dead in the water and our breed will emerge better than ever. You don't protest law buy obeying it.

Disobedience puts dogs at risk. Not advisable. There are better ways to combat BSL.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

The best way is to make them feel overwhelmed, impotent, intimidated. CO's here no longer say boo to us because they know that we'll rain a shit storm down on them, but it's only working because just about everyone is ignoring the law, mass rebellion is precisely the sort of aggressive direct action we need. A law can exist on paper but if the grunts in the ground are helpless or unwilling then that's good enough for me.

[VizslaMomma]

. Not advisable. There are better ways to combat BSL.

How did BSL ever get enacted in the first instance?

Sighs.

[Amax-1]

Regardless whether or not BSL is effective, unfortunately it's law. It's not about whether or not Pitbull's, Dogo's or Fila's etc are good breeds, it's about them being restricted by legislation and if you get caught with them, you have a problem. Whilst anti BSL activists continue to flaunt the law continuing to own and breed, they will never be taken seriously or seen other than non conformists to have real impact on release of BSL. First and foremost I believe that anti BSL activists need to show they are law abiding citizens to have a chance at overturning the legislation or releasing certain breeds.

How did BSL ever get enacted in the first instance?

The listed breeds are pretty uniform globally with countries of BSL legislation. Someone began with a list of certain breeds and rest followed suit for the most part.

Edited March 10, 2014 by Amax-1

[Staffyluv]

Regardless whether or not BSL is effective, unfortunately it's law. It's not about whether or not Pitbull's, Dogo's or Fila's etc are good breeds, it's about them being restricted by legislation and if you get caught with them, you have a problem. Whilst anti BSL activists continue to flaunt the law continuing to own and breed, they will never be taken seriously or seen other than non conformists to have real impact on release of BSL. First and foremost I believe that anti BSL activists need to show they are law abiding citizens to have a chance at overturning the legislation or releasing certain breeds.

How did BSL ever get enacted in the first instance?

The listed breeds are pretty uniform globally with countries of BSL legislation. Someone began with a list of certain breeds and rest followed suit for the most part.

I am an anti BSL activist - I detest the legislation and help out and donate where and when I can.

I am a professional 48 year old woman, with my own business, own my own home and own a staffy cross.. I have never flaunted the law and would never breed dogs..

I hardly see myself as you describe the 'anti BSL activist' type..

Every person that I know that owns a pit bull - are all professional people (all 6 of them)... No they don't flaunt the law or breed them either...

Talk about dumping all types in the same bucket - this is EXACTLY the ATTITUDE that bought BSL about in the first place..

Thinking that because it is a pit bull it must be bad, so kill it..

So everyone that owns one must be a bad person who flaunts the law and breeds them...

Edited March 14, 2014 by Staffyluv

[Zhou Xuanyao]

When a young child is throwing a tantrum and demands his or her way, do we play by their rules in the hope that one day they''ll see it our way? No, we impose our own and we do not try to reason with them because they're impervious to it--the government is the same. There will be no reason, and co-operating in the hope that the laws are reversed is as backward and naive a proposition as I'v ever heard. They don't hold any power we just let them think they do, what goes is the will of the people and if people stopped snivveling up to them and censoring their peers who reject their unjust laws BSL would have been buried 20 years ago.

Edited March 18, 2014 by KungLao

[sandgrubber]

When a young child is throwing a tantrum and demands his or her way, do we play by their rules in the hope that one day they''ll see it our way? No, we impose our own and we do not try to reason with them because they're impervious to it--the government is the same. There will be no reason, and co-operating in the hope that the laws are reversed is as backward and naive a proposition as I'v ever heard. They don't hold any power we just let them think they do, what goes is the will of the people and if people stopped snivveling up to them and censoring their peers who reject their unjust laws BSL would have been buried 20 years ago.

Nice try, but if it means your dog gets seized, not worth it. I don't think anyone whose dog has been taken, and who has either had to go through a whole legal process to get the dog back, or who has lost and had their dog pts would agree that 'they' don't have power. If you could get hundreds of thousands of people to march with dogs in hand, as in the classic civil rights demonstrations or Gandhi breaking the Salt Laws, you might succeed. But the anti-BSL community has seldom shown the numbers or the cohesiveness and resolve to be politically effective.

[kelpiecuddles]

I can absolutely promise you that you don't 'win' against someone behaving childishly by being just as childish yourself, you behave maturely and responsibly and you present your arguments in the proper way and to the proper people thereby shwing yourselves to be more grown up than them! P**sing off the people making the decisions will just make them push back harder.

[Zhou Xuanyao]

Our way is a 'proper' way, making rational appeals to irrational people is the futile way, if anything is childish here that's it there--abject niavity

[sandgrubber]

Our way is a 'proper' way, making rational appeals to irrational people is the futile way, if anything is childish here that's it there--abject niavity

Your 'proper' way is only rational if you place a low value on your dog's life and/or don't find it awful to have your dog impounded and having to employ lawyers to get your dog out of the pound. Sadly, right does not make might.

Edited March 22, 2014 by sandgrubber