Petition Asking For The Rspca To Be Made Accountable

[mita]

The window of early socialisation goes up to the 14 week stage. The UQ researchers recognised that....pointing out that new owners of any less socialised puppies from non-registered breeders, should deal with that. From their Abstract (Conclusions):

People purchasing puppies from nonregistered breeders should focus on socializing their puppies between the time of purchase and 14 weeks of age

So these puppies start with a Risk Factor.... but, depending on new owner behaviour, a Protective Factor can be introduced. But lack of socialisation by new owner would compound the Risk Factor. Also individual temperament (still highly debated) would also either add element of risk or protection in terms of responding to socialisation efforts.

As to the RSPCA failed working dogs.... the breed attributes, like high energy for purposeful activity, would also constitute a Risk Factor when placed in a domestic setting which doesn't/can't cater for it. Or not so, in one that could.

The notions of Risk Factors & Protective Factors makes a great deal of sense in looking at the path of individual dogs. And what we can best do for them.

Edited June 18, 2013 by mita

[LisaCC]

Mita have you got a link or name to this paper? I would like to have a read

[Love Mutts]

I actually started that petition and just wanted to clear up the misconception of why I started it. It was started due to the RSPCAs 20yr lack of action in a horse neglect and hoarding case, it definitely wasn't started because if cessnock pound.

A lot of people who signed it were concerned about a shelter in SA which is why there are so many comments about dogs on it.

The horse neglect case is finally being death with and so far 54 charges of neglect etc have been laid with more to come. It's just a shame that no matter how many reports they had in the past they chose to ignore them and many many horses and foals died needlessly.

I was saddened when I read some of the comments from your members saying they felt no compassion or responsibility for dogs in pounds and shelters. I feel we are all responsible not because people breed dogs etc but because we aren't fighting hard enough to stop puppy farms and dodgy back yard breeders. Nor are we fighting hard enough for no kill shelters to be implemented, this doesn't mean dogs with servere behavioural issues aren't put to sleep but that every dog is given a chance to be rehabilitated if needed and adopted and that no healthy dogs are put down without reason beyond lack of space. Every dog I've ever owned has been a rescue dog, I have trained all of them and currently have a hard case on my hands for which I brought in a dog behaviouralist to help, he is only 2yrs and friendly and happy but has no lead manners. With work he will be fine, not everyone who adopts ignores training and not everyone who buys purebreds cares about training. There are plenty of purebred dogs in pounds, my second rescue dog was a Basenji who was an ex breeder, she was in the pound with her mate, she had no manners what so ever when I bought her and was probably one of the hardest dogs to work with I'd ever had.

Most no kill shelters and advocates like myself have no problem with purebred breeders we just discourage buying from places where you can't view the parents and the living conditions of the dogs. The only reason you shouldn't be able to do that is if you are adopting from a shelter or obviously buying a purebred from interstate etc.

[Little Gifts]

Amanda there are always different perspectives on DOL. Many DOLers have concerns with how the RSPCA is run and their 'statistics'. It is a huge issue and people are going to have different perspectives on what should be done and how. Don't take any of the comments to heart. Your petition made a difference and that is what matters for these horses. Good on you for affecting positive change. I always say one person can make a difference, and you have!

[german_shep_fan]

This is a difficult one Perry's Mum... Whilst I have my own concerns over the direction that the RSPCA have taken I do not feel at this point in time we should focus on kill rates in rescue.

I do agree with due process... but what is 'Due process'... I don't agree with BSL...

The issue is simply that there are too many dogs and the problem lies with people who just keep allowing them to breed for their own selfish reasons which include all Breeders, Back yard breeders and people who get a dog and do not have them desexed. And in my opinion... the worst offender "I just wanted my dog to have one litter, I love puppies'. I believe that if you don't understand and accept that your dog should be desexed or if you can't afford to desex then you should not have a dog.

I believe that anyone who truly loves dogs and immerses themselves in the dog over population issue... could not continue to create more dogs... Volunteer at your local rescue and you start to understand...

…

I breed. Well one litter so far, but I intend more. I didn't just 'allow' my dog to breed. I tested her value to the breed in the show ring, undertook all recommended health tests, didn't make the final decision to go ahead until I had owners lined up, looked far and wide for a suitable stud, and eventually imported semen from the US for her.

I feel every responsibility for her puppies and always will.

I feel no responsibility at all for the dogs in the pound.

I am sorry for them, but my being a breeder has nothing to do with them being there. Some of us are very specific in the dogs we want to live with. We are not a home waiting for just any dog. Take away our options and you take away that home, it is not going to filled by anything else. I really don't get why my breed should cease to be bred in this country because there are irresponsible owners who treat their dogs like disposable commodities and who are never held account for it, and irresponsible breeders who cater to them - it is that call for no breeding at all that has seen me drop all my donations to rescue organisations, which used to be significant.

Back to the OP - I agree the RSPCA needs to be more accountable, and I will look at the petition in more depth, thank you for posting it.

Well said, just because someone buys a puppy doesn't mean a shelter dog died because that person chose to buy a puppy from a breeder! Chances are they would never of gotten a dog from rescue anyway. I will never understand that line of thinking: don't breed or buy whilst others die. Of course I feel badly for them, but how abt hating on the low life's that dumped them there in the first place instead of ppl who take the time to find lovely homes for their dogs and take responsibility for that dog for its whole life, whether it be 5 months or 15 years. I know it would be impossible to police but I would love ppl who dump dogs at the pound to be put on a list so they can never own a dog again! As someone else in this thread said, owning a dog should be a privilege not a right.

Sorry for going off topic OP

[Lasareina]

Are you referring to the Penderlea horses Amanda? I have been following that situation for a while and it is very sad. I can't understand why the RSPCA didn't act faster in that particular case, or how the owner of the horses can be so cruel and heartless.

I was surprised to hear that the RSPCA had such a high kill rate, when they are also making large profits as well. I can understand in some cases where the animals are so ill or injured that it is kinder to end their suffering and PTS, or where there is a history of aggression or dangerous behaviour. But surely these extreme cases are rare.

[Trisven13]

This is a difficult one Perry's Mum... Whilst I have my own concerns over the direction that the RSPCA have taken I do not feel at this point in time we should focus on kill rates in rescue.

I do agree with due process... but what is 'Due process'... I don't agree with BSL...

The issue is simply that there are too many dogs and the problem lies with people who just keep allowing them to breed for their own selfish reasons which include all Breeders, Back yard breeders and people who get a dog and do not have them desexed. And in my opinion... the worst offender "I just wanted my dog to have one litter, I love puppies'. I believe that if you don't understand and accept that your dog should be desexed or if you can't afford to desex then you should not have a dog.

I believe that anyone who truly loves dogs and immerses themselves in the dog over population issue... could not continue to create more dogs... Volunteer at your local rescue and you start to understand...

…

I breed. Well one litter so far, but I intend more. I didn't just 'allow' my dog to breed. I tested her value to the breed in the show ring, undertook all recommended health tests, didn't make the final decision to go ahead until I had owners lined up, looked far and wide for a suitable stud, and eventually imported semen from the US for her.

I feel every responsibility for her puppies and always will.

I feel no responsibility at all for the dogs in the pound.

I am sorry for them, but my being a breeder has nothing to do with them being there. Some of us are very specific in the dogs we want to live with. We are not a home waiting for just any dog. Take away our options and you take away that home, it is not going to filled by anything else. I really don't get why my breed should cease to be bred in this country because there are irresponsible owners who treat their dogs like disposable commodities and who are never held account for it, and irresponsible breeders who cater to them - it is that call for no breeding at all that has seen me drop all my donations to rescue organisations, which used to be significant.

Back to the OP - I agree the RSPCA needs to be more accountable, and I will look at the petition in more depth, thank you for posting it.

Yep agree wholeheartedly AND I was very, very heavily involved with all breeds dog rescue for 6 years (establishing & running an all breeds rescue). As someone who has always "loved dogs" I learnt whilst doing rescue that I don't want to live with all dogs and that the specific traits I do want to live with are only found in certain breeds.

[Love Mutts]

This is a difficult one Perry's Mum... Whilst I have my own concerns over the direction that the RSPCA have taken I do not feel at this point in time we should focus on kill rates in rescue.

I do agree with due process... but what is 'Due process'... I don't agree with BSL...

The issue is simply that there are too many dogs and the problem lies with people who just keep allowing them to breed for their own selfish reasons which include all Breeders, Back yard breeders and people who get a dog and do not have them desexed. And in my opinion... the worst offender "I just wanted my dog to have one litter, I love puppies'. I believe that if you don't understand and accept that your dog should be desexed or if you can't afford to desex then you should not have a dog.

I believe that anyone who truly loves dogs and immerses themselves in the dog over population issue... could not continue to create more dogs... Volunteer at your local rescue and you start to understand...

…

I breed. Well one litter so far, but I intend more. I didn't just 'allow' my dog to breed. I tested her value to the breed in the show ring, undertook all recommended health tests, didn't make the final decision to go ahead until I had owners lined up, looked far and wide for a suitable stud, and eventually imported semen from the US for her.

I feel every responsibility for her puppies and always will.

I feel no responsibility at all for the dogs in the pound.

I am sorry for them, but my being a breeder has nothing to do with them being there. Some of us are very specific in the dogs we want to live with. We are not a home waiting for just any dog. Take away our options and you take away that home, it is not going to filled by anything else. I really don't get why my breed should cease to be bred in this country because there are irresponsible owners who treat their dogs like disposable commodities and who are never held account for it, and irresponsible breeders who cater to them - it is that call for no breeding at all that has seen me drop all my donations to rescue organisations, which used to be significant.

Back to the OP - I agree the RSPCA needs to be more accountable, and I will look at the petition in more depth, thank you for posting it.

Well said, just because someone buys a puppy doesn't mean a shelter dog died because that person chose to buy a puppy from a breeder! Chances are they would never of gotten a dog from rescue anyway. I will never understand that line of thinking: don't breed or buy whilst others die. Of course I feel badly for them, but how abt hating on the low life's that dumped them there in the first place instead of ppl who take the time to find lovely homes for their dogs and take responsibility for that dog for its whole life, whether it be 5 months or 15 years. I know it would be impossible to police but I would love ppl who dump dogs at the pound to be put on a list so they can never own a dog again! As someone else in this thread said, owning a dog should be a privilege not a right.

Sorry for going off topic OP

[Love Mutts]

I agree that a good breeder is not hurting the kill rates at all in shelters. It's the ones as mentioned above who decide they just want a litter of pups and mix breed them without care that do the damage along with puppy farms breeding designer dogs. I have no issue with people shopping through a breeder where parents can be viewed and they are breed for health and bloodlines etc.

My other big concern is the constant BYB of certain dog breeds when they make up the largest percentage of pound dogs. My favourite breed being one of those ( Staffies)

[Love Mutts]

Are you referring to the Penderlea horses Amanda? I have been following that situation for a while and it is very sad. I can't understand why the RSPCA didn't act faster in that particular case, or how the owner of the horses can be so cruel and heartless.

I was surprised to hear that the RSPCA had such a high kill rate, when they are also making large profits as well. I can understand in some cases where the animals are so ill or injured that it is kinder to end their suffering and PTS, or where there is a history of aggression or dangerous behaviour. But surely these extreme cases are rare.

[Love Mutts]

Yes the Penderlea horses were what drove me. That on top of what I already knew about the RSPCA made me decide to do something. Their kill rate in most states is around 50% way to high, their behavioural test isn't fair on an already stressed out dog, a child size doll shoved in front of a dog out of the blue does not indicate wether or not a dog would be good with children. I have seen copies of their tests and most family dogs would fail it if they ended up in a strange environment and were then tested.

RSPCA in most states have surplus each year in excess of $10 million dollars but say they can't afford to lower kill rates or offer cheap desexing etc. yet the AWL with a fraction of their budget does more to help including encourages pet shops to promote adoption of puppies and dogs or buy from legit breeders. The RSPCA in the other hand in NSW and QLD indirectly support puppy farms by allowing pet shops to sell the pups in partnership with the RSPCA. (Ask me if you want details it's to long to write)

There is no avenue other than a parliamentary inquiry to make the RSPCA answerable for its actions and it takes a lot if work to get one.

[Love Mutts]

Amanda there are always different perspectives on DOL. Many DOLers have concerns with how the RSPCA is run and their 'statistics'. It is a huge issue and people are going to have different perspectives on what should be done and how. Don't take any of the comments to heart. Your petition made a difference and that is what matters for these horses. Good on you for affecting positive change. I always say one person can make a difference, and you have!

[Love Mutts]

Thank you. :)

[_PL_]

People may be interested in this petition which requires the RSPCA to be made accountable for their actions:

https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/make-the-rspca-accountable-and-answerable-for-their-actions

I believe this is associated with a campaign to get people writing letters to the editor of the local newspaper at Cessnock in NSW because of the RSPCA's kill rate their of 49%.

http://www.causes.com/actions/1754988-rspca-in-the-hunter-region-of-nsw-australia-your-kill-rates-are-pathetic?recruiter_id=146166640&utm_campaign=activity_mailer%2Fnew_activity&utm_medium=email&utm_source=causes&token=19JJTcrYaxO8js9jAUrnENgW

I cannot find anywhere that features impounded RSPCA Rutherford animals. AFAIK they have the contract to hold strays for a couple of councils, where are these animals? How are owners supposed to find their dogs when they can't all go in and check every day.

Then you can write the owners and public off as irresponsible and PTS 49%. It's wrong.

[~Anne~]

The issue is simply that there are too many dogs and the problem lies with people who just keep allowing them to breed for their own selfish reasons which include all Breeders, Back yard breeders and people who get a dog and do not have them desexed. And in my opinion... the worst offender "I just wanted my dog to have one litter, I love puppies'. I believe that if you don't understand and accept that your dog should be desexed or if you can't afford to desex then you should not have a dog.

I believe that anyone who truly loves dogs and immerses themselves in the dog over population issue... could not continue to create more dogs... Volunteer at your local rescue and you start to understand...

…

There is no dog over population problem. It's a myth.

There are less dogs per capita now then there were 20 years ago according to stats from various reputable sources including the bureau of stats.

There are many reasons why dogs are being killed in shelters and too many dogs in this country is not one of them. It doesn't matter if they are cross bred or pure bred.

[Love Mutts]

People may be interested in this petition which requires the RSPCA to be made accountable for their actions:

https://www.change.org/en-AU/petitions/make-the-rspca-accountable-and-answerable-for-their-actions

I believe this is associated with a campaign to get people writing letters to the editor of the local newspaper at Cessnock in NSW because of the RSPCA's kill rate their of 49%.

http://www.causes.com/actions/1754988-rspca-in-the-hunter-region-of-nsw-australia-your-kill-rates-are-pathetic?recruiter_id=146166640&utm_campaign=activity_mailer%2Fnew_activity&utm_medium=email&utm_source=causes&token=19JJTcrYaxO8js9jAUrnENgW

I cannot find anywhere that features impounded RSPCA Rutherford animals. AFAIK they have the contract to hold strays for a couple of councils, where are these animals? How are owners supposed to find their dogs when they can't all go in and check every day.

Then you can write the owners and public off as irresponsible and PTS 49%. It's wrong.

[Love Mutts]

If you go to savingpets.com you will find all the stats you need from most pounds including that one. The issue is that when it was run by others the kill rate was much lower than run by the RSPCA. This is a pattern in most RSPCA run pounds.

The RSPCA in the ACT have implemented most of the no kill strategies and their kill rate is much much lower than most.

Yes the over population of pets is mostly a myth, however banning puppy farms and dodgy BYB would certainly help lesson the load on pounds and shelters and stop the poor breeding dogs in them from being treated so poorly.

[tdierikx]

The RSPCA in the ACT isn't a pound though - they can be selective about the animals they take in, and when. Much easier to be no-kill when you aren't tasked with having to take in everything that comes through your doors.

If you want a great pound to make comparisons with, take Renbury Farm, or Hawkesbury Pound in Sydney as examples of how a well run pound works - they both work extremely well with rescue, and have lower kill rates due to that fact. Renbury is privately run, and Hawkesbury is council run - but both strive for lower kill rates by actively working with rescue to get as many rehomable dogs and cats out with a chance to find a new life.

T.

[sandgrubber]

The issue is simply that there are too many dogs and the problem lies with people who just keep allowing them to breed for their own selfish reasons which include all Breeders, Back yard breeders and people who get a dog and do not have them desexed. And in my opinion... the worst offender "I just wanted my dog to have one litter, I love puppies'. I believe that if you don't understand and accept that your dog should be desexed or if you can't afford to desex then you should not have a dog.

…

Do some specific research & you'll find you've over-generalised. You need to match your good intentions about a petition re RSPCA NSW, with accurate information on the nature of the problem.

It's not just a case of 'too many dogs'.... it's degree of risk factors around their being bred, raised & homed.

At lower risk for developing behaviour problems & being dumped, are those puppies bred & raised, with much thought & planning, by breeders who socialise their dogs well (in a more home-style setting, where their efforts are not commercial).

This tends to fit registered breeders.... as UQ research actually sussed out. That same research showed that these people also tended to have better control over number of litters.

Diva posted an excellent example of this.

It's for that reason that RSPCA Qld.... in one of their newsletters, urged people buying puppies/dogs to go to breeders who socialise their dogs well....or to their own shelters or to responsible rescue groups.

Higher risk dogs.... that is, those more likely to develop behaviour problems (like timidity or aggression)... tend to come from unregistered breeders like backyarders & the puppy factories.

US research, not surprisingly, found that puppies homed from petshops are more likely to develop such problems.

Because their source is not those that tend to socialise well.... but like backyarders & puppy factories.

With a next possible pit-stop being dumped in pounds/shelters.... like the RSPCA run. So the dogs they finish up with, are slanted towards those who were born/bred/homed to be at higher risk.

Which means that behavioral testing & rehabilitation are critical. As Aphra posted, some pounds respond by being innovative.

So numbers, alone, do not tell the whole story.

PLEASE, please give references so people can look things up and decide for themselves! Naming an institution is NOT a way to reference unless you're talking to an in group.

[Love Mutts]

The RSPCA in the ACT isn't a pound though - they can be selective about the animals they take in, and when. Much easier to be no-kill when you aren't tasked with having to take in everything that comes through your doors.

If you want a great pound to make comparisons with, take Renbury Farm, or Hawkesbury Pound in Sydney as examples of how a well run pound works - they both work extremely well with rescue, and have lower kill rates due to that fact. Renbury is privately run, and Hawkesbury is council run - but both strive for lower kill rates by actively working with rescue to get as many rehomable dogs and cats out with a chance to find a new life.

T.