Conservative Management For Cl Injury

[korbin13]

Has anybody had any experience with going down the conservative management path (restriction of movement, no surgery) for a cruciate ligament injury?

I have been reading about it on this site:

http://tiggerpoz.com/index.html

And am interested if anybody on here has tried it?

Edit: Sorry title should read CL! Let's me edit it but won't save it.

Edited June 14, 2013 by korbin13

[OSoSwift]

I did multiple times but eventually had to have surgery. She goes pretty hard though

[korbin13]

Thanks. I am leaning towards giving it a go once. She is a large mixed breed and I am currently only taking her outside on a lead and then back inside. Not much of a life for her at the moment

Vet is happy for me to give it a whirl but she believes that surgery will be inevitable.

[ness]

Is the knee stable korbin? If its totally unstable and with a large breed dog your probably better off getting the surgery done. The recovery/rehab period is long enough without stuffing around.

[korbin13]

She does walk on it, with a slight limp. It has been two weeks since she hurt it. First week she was on Metacam, this has been her first week without any medication. Vet did the 'draw'? test on it today and the dog allowed her to do it without fuss, the vet said it was loose. She didn't mention stability.

She is very sore though, when she first gets up after lying down.

[*kirty*]

Yes I've done it. My dog had surgery (TPLO) on her first leg, but when the second leg went I decided to try conservative treatment. She was on anti-inflammatories for 2 weeks and has been on joint supplements too. She also had the course of cartrophen injections and now has them every 3-4 months. She is completely sound but does get sore if she over does it (which has only been 2 or 3 times in a good year or more).

But she is 12yo and only 18kg which is perhaps why its working for her?

Edited June 14, 2013 by *kirty*

[korbin13]

Thanks kirty. Lol, I spent most of the night reading up on the different techniques etc. Wish I hadn't!! I am now leaning towards just getting it done.

She is a three year old, 35kg, mixed breed (mastiff/bull breed type). And we live a very active lifestyle, lots of camping, hiking, and she was my running buddy (the SBT is a useless running buddy, keeps wanting to sniff everything!!)

The thing is as I live regionally, the vet was going to do the surgery using the De Angelis (?) method, which I am now reading isn't exactly the best for large active breeds. My alternative is travelling down to Perth. Vet says that she has had a lot of success with larger breeds with this sort of surgery and they go back to full recovery.

Oh boy, wish they could talk!! Well, sometimes....

[*kirty*]

I personally wouldn't want that method done on my dog if it was over 20kg and active.

[Jumabaar]

I think your on the right track.

I would be thinking more than just the DA surgery as well considering your lifestyle and the risk of failure- and additional cost if it did fail.

Perhaps look into seeing of there are any qualified animal physiotherapists in Perth who you talk so you can start strengthening the other leg as well? It's common for the other leg to suffer the same injury but doing work now may assist stabilising it.

[korbin13]

Physio sounds like a great idea. Thankfully I have a very understanding vet as I will go back to her with another hundred questions :laugh:

Sounds like the TPLO or TTO is the way to go. Coordinating this is going to be a nightmare (and expensive, so much for hybrid vigour , apparently CCL's don't discriminate :D )

Hopefully the vet will be able to do the follow up, without us having to go back, but just another question for the vet. She said that they do have a great relationship with Murdoch Uni/and another vet surgeon that I can't remember, and they are both used to animals coming in from all over WA and are quite accommodating.

[sas]

At my recent canine acupuncture workshop the Vet who was running the course spoke about ACL's and acupuncture and that they had great success with acupuncture only for clients who were unable for whatever reason to go down the surgery route....something to look into?

[korbin13]

At my recent canine acupuncture workshop the Vet who was running the course spoke about ACL's and acupuncture and that they had great success with acupuncture only for clients who were unable for whatever reason to go down the surgery route....something to look into?

Something else to add to my research list, thanks sas.

[OSoSwift]

My girl is only 10.6 kgs and after 4 conservative attempts she went lame and after 2 weeks I thought yay getting better, then she was suddenly on three legs after standing up and never got any better.

She was the smallest dog the vet had done a TPLO on, we had some issues but Bowen Therapy has been a god send and now she is very sound and on nothing - she cannot has NSAIDs - and rarely even looks uneven.

I no longer have to curb what she does for fear of reinjury.

[Quickasyoucan]

We tried conservative management with my 19kg crossbreed. We did medication, physio including hydrotherapy, but we ended up biting the bullet and having a tplo. I scared myself reading the Internet but surgery and recovery were uneventful. We are coming up 3 years post op and at 10 have had no lameness and only the occasional soreness when jake overdoes playing ball. Being a Stafford x bc or kelpie he still hits the exercise pretty hard and no probs with other leg so far. From my reading tho I definitely would not go de angelo with a large breed. Good luck with your dog

[Rappie]

She is a three year old, 35kg, mixed breed (mastiff/bull breed type). And we live a very active lifestyle, lots of camping, hiking, and she was my running buddy (the SBT is a useless running buddy, keeps wanting to sniff everything!!)

These are all strong reasons to consider a plateau levelling procedure (TPLO / TTO / TTA / TWO etc).

A DeAngelis procedure is better than no surgery but it wouldn't be my first choice. Conservative management tends to have the best results in dogs under 10-15kg but it is an option for larger dogs that don't lead active lifestyles. In a large breed dog with significant laxity in the joint though I would consider surgery. I'm sure you've come across the statistic in your reading but remember that about 50% of cases will injure the opposite cruciate ligament, often within 12 months.

The supportive treatment options like physio, acupuncture, hydrotherapy etc are all useful things even pre-op to try to maintain muscle tone and mobility.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Rappie

[korbin13]

Thanks all.

I must admit the thought of surgery is a bit daunting for me especially as we will have to stay in Perth and she is a timid dog. I have a great list of questions for my vet tomorrow, she did also say I could speak to the Perth specialist before making my decision as well.

I do like the holistic approach to recovery as well, may have to try and get some exercises from a physio in Perth as I we don't have any animal ones here. I know the chiro here does horses!!