Yet Another Attack

[trinabean]

It made the news again tonight but couldn't heard a word over the kids. Makes me so mad that the small minority of idiots ruin it for everyone else.

Yes, me too.

[dancinbcs]

American Staffordshire Terrier

BACKGROUND

The American Staffordshire Terrier is not a new breed. Although it gained American Kennel Club registration and recognition in 1936, it has been developed since the early 1800s as a result of crosses between the bulldogs of that time and game terriers.

Although the early ancestors of this breed came from England, the development of the American Staffordshire Terrier is the story of a truly American breed. This dog was instrumental in the success of farmers and settlers who developed that country. They were used for general farm work, hunting wild pigs, bears, and other large game, guarding the homestead and for general companionship.

A number of the early ancestors were also developed for the "sport" of dog fighting. The extraordinary vitality of this breed is a direct result of breeding for successful fighting dogs. This now illegal activity is, unfortunately, more often cited as the early purpose of the dogs rather than the general farm work, and although ancestors of the American Staffordshire were fighting dogs, the selective breeding since the 1930s has been away from the fighting heritage. The American Staffordshire Terrier today is a companion and show dog.

AVERAGE LIFESPAN

The American Staffordshire Terrier usually lives up to nine years of age but can easily last 11 years if given plenty of loving attention and a good diet.

AVERAGE SIZE & WEIGHT

44cm - 49cm

19kg - 23kg

BREED PERSONALITY, CHARACTERISTICS & TEMPERAMENT

The American Staffordshire Terrier is a stoic and powerful breed. It's nature tends to be courageous and training is recommended.

COMPATIBILITY WITH OTHER PETS

The American Staffordshire Terrier can, under some circumstances, show aggressive tendencies towards cats, rabbits and other household pets. With other dogs, it needs to be socialised correctly over a period of time to establish a lasting relationship.

The owner of an American Staffordshire Terrier should be ever aware that it will respond to a challenge offered by another dog, and for this reason great care should be taken in the surrounds of an unfamiliar dog, especially if both are male.

CARE REQUIREMENTS

The American Staffordshire Terrier is a relatively low maintenance dog, requiring minimal grooming of its coat, dry shampooing or bathing only when necessary and rubbing its coat will bring out a good shine. It requires daily exercise.

It will also seek and demand attention from its human family, but it will require training to become a good member of the family. A home with a fenced yard or kennel is essential.

IN CONCLUSION

If you have decided that the American Staffordshire Terrier is the dog for you and you are prepared to keep this animal under close supervision, contact one of the groups listed below:

Somehow I suspect the meaning of the word "essential" isnt too well understood.

Since this does appear to be the element missing it seems, in just about every incident that hits the headlines. Someone doesnt seem to be doing their breed homework before they get them.

I spotted a similar warning in the breed description for American Bulldogs. Somehow it doesnt seem to be a priority to the owners of the dogs that end up in the headlines.

The dogs involved in this attack were not Amstaffs but SBTs and they looked purebred, not the typical mongrel pound Staffie.

[Guest Clover]

They hardly looked pure to me . I didn't think they came in the red brindle colour or had red noses (not having a go here). The poor brindle one looked like it needed some serious flea treatment. More idiots making life shit for the responsible people.

[Guest Clover]

http://media.theage.com.au/selections/women-mauled-by-pack-of-dogs-4477909.html

oh dear where did the vet get her "lock jaw" info from.

[Sandra777]

The dogs involved in this attack were not Amstaffs but SBTs and they looked purebred, not the typical mongrel pound Staffie.

Good grief - what sort of Staffords do they have where you live!

The brindle one with the flea allergy looked like a BYB SBT, the red one in the cage was no SBT and I doubt it's mother had ever seen a SBT even from the other side of the road. Couldn't figure out if the brindle one shown again was the one with the flea allergy or a different dog because the second time they showed a brindle one (in the cage) it didn't look quite as Stafford-like as the one with the flea allergy, but that could be a matter of camera angles. Whatever they were, they shouldn't have been out on the street unattended and I hope the owner gets her arse sued off.

[frufru]

Thank you for your very sensible posts Sandgrubber !!!!!!

[Staffyluv]

The dogs involved in this attack were not Amstaffs but SBTs and they looked purebred, not the typical mongrel pound Staffie.

Good grief - what sort of Staffords do they have where you live!

The brindle one with the flea allergy looked like a BYB SBT, the red one in the cage was no SBT and I doubt it's mother had ever seen a SBT even from the other side of the road. Couldn't figure out if the brindle one shown again was the one with the flea allergy or a different dog because the second time they showed a brindle one (in the cage) it didn't look quite as Stafford-like as the one with the flea allergy, but that could be a matter of camera angles. Whatever they were, they shouldn't have been out on the street unattended and I hope the owner gets her arse sued off.

This is the biggest problem of all - breed identification..

But should we expect Joe Public to be able to identify the breed?

I think as a reporter, reporting to the public, they should at least do some research to determine what breed it was or just call it a cross breed..

I totally agree that the owners of roaming dogs (especially the ones that threaten or cause injury) should have more to answer to. The penalties for these offences need to be more severe - hit the hip pocket big time and even gaol sentences or community services in the least.

The vet stating the dog had lock jaw is deplorable - you would think that someone who had studied animal anatomy would know better.

[Dame Aussie]

http://media.theage....gs-4477909.html

oh dear where did the vet get her "lock jaw" info from.

Idiot. What hope have we got when supposed experts don't even know what they're on about?

[JulesP]

http://media.theage....gs-4477909.html

oh dear where did the vet get her "lock jaw" info from.

Idiot. What hope have we got when supposed experts don't even know what they're on about?

Were did you get that the vet said 'lock jaw' from? She certainly did not use that term during this interview. The journo said 'lock jaw'.

[Sandra777]

But should we expect Joe Public to be able to identify the breed?

It's not so much the public IDing the breed that I was wondering about, but a member of this forum stating that the dogs shown were "definitely" purebreds. Really no hope if someone who is obviously interested enough in dogs to spend time on here thinks these were "definitely" purebred Staffordshire Bull Terriers!

[inez]

Just love the way the owners of these dogs prefer to call their darlings "staffies" instead of Pitties.

AS if trying to link them to the english staffie will in peoples minds that makes them cuter and cuddlier. I notice one of the dogs had the so much admired red nose in the BEST pitties, as is the "rare" blue in again, pitties and amstaffs just as described and in his photos of his previous much loved ones, that chap who brought me his pittie pup to microchip.

Considering probably 90 percent of these dogs dont have a pedigree parent and come from the invisible breeders this is not going to stop. Only CRIMINAL charges against owners might? Although I wouldnt count on that anytime soon. The chap who I met through my friend now has an AVO out against him since she broke up with him, has shown violence and broken twice into he home since she broke up with him. Sounds pretty much like he and his peferred breed are a good match doesnt it? No legislation is going to stop these people from doing as they please, people like him dont respect the law anyway.

Protect yourself or pay the consequences might be the real message if you want to stay with any chance of safe.

found this blue english staffie photo.

notice the difference in the length of the legs?

http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Pets-Horses/Dogs/Dogs-for-Sale/AdNumber=TP005594744

I would be making a bet, those mutts are the product of the thousands of invisible breeders with goodness knows what behind them

We do need to be more proactive. Neither these dogs or the peope who want and like a dog that can do this and accidents like are happening and them getting out isnt going to go away.

Protect yourself or pay the consequences might be the real message if you want to stay with any chance of safe.

Although Im not sure what will? Pepper spray is now banned isnt it?

I know my husband used to kill dingos by pulling off the stirrup leather and running them down and one swing with the leather and the massive nickel plated 4 bar iron would despatch them in one hit. Dont know if you could try that on foot with these kind of attacks through?

Pretty scary that chap in england decided to use the knife and it took 23 times before that dog finally let his dog go, you really have to decide.

It would be more sensible, but who could ever be that sensible and walk away and let your dog lose its life and save you from the injuries of these women.

Even scarier that jogger didnt have a dog to attract his attackers, they went for him.

This is todays reality, it isnt going to go away.

What can you carry legally to drive off an attack if standing tall and bluff isnt going to work?

Maybe thats what we all need to learn?

Edited June 11, 2013 by inez

[inez]

Kudos to the reporter, or headline writer. The fact that these were ROAMING dogs is much more important than the breed. If you want to high drive dogs who may be DA and/or HA, I think you're an idiot, but that's your own business. You can't outlaw idiocy. However, if you let your menacing dog roam, or don't invest heavily in preventing the dogs from getting out, you are a serious public nuisance and you deserve to be treated as a criminal. I think the owner deserves a felony on his record, and his dogs should be confisgated until he (or she) can prove that containment is adequate. If the owner's dogs are ever found roaming again, I think the owner should face a LONG jail term. Castration (of owner and/or dogs) might also be appropriate, but that's based on my personal warped sense of humor/justice. Don't think the law will ever take that line...well, maybe for the dogs.

Maybe if they like the initials let em keep BSL BUT rebadge it Bad Supervisors Legislation?

[Staffyluv]

But should we expect Joe Public to be able to identify the breed?

It's not so much the public IDing the breed that I was wondering about, but a member of this forum stating that the dogs shown were "definitely" purebreds. Really no hope if someone who is obviously interested enough in dogs to spend time on here thinks these were "definitely" purebred Staffordshire Bull Terriers!

Oh I see.. Thanks for clarifying.

I think when the average person sees a bull breed, be it an SBT or an Amstaff or an APBT - they don't see the difference between them. They see 'bull breed'..

I will be honest before coming to DOL, I used to think Poms were just a fluffy Chi.

There are a few breeds that I used to call something entirely different.

Sure I know better now, thanks to DOL and taking an interest.

But if you (meaning anyone) don't really care (or are not interested) for anything other than your own breed - do you really take enough notice to learn the difference between the different breeds?

[Cat]

Of course no other possible dog breed could contribute to a red nose... And it was the article that said staffy...

Edited June 11, 2013 by Cat

[inez]

Of course no other possible dog breed could contribute to a red nose... And it was the article that said staffy...

I have or should say had a red nosed gold chihuahua.

Do you really think the dog in that video, and those dogs are the ones who did do it. not some generic photo. Are chihuahua's?

Drawing a long bow, and decided yep they are. Does that make what happened any less disgusting?

Somehow it would have been marvellous if they could have been shrunk to 3 or less kg instead of the 15 to 20 kgs of those in the video, or the 40 or so the jogger had to contend with. I doubt he would have had his heart exposed, or the woman her finger severed if the dog didnt have the size or the strength to do so.

Would calling the poor dears chihuahua crosses make you feel better? If so, do so.

Then maybe you might be able to think a bit straighter and come up with some solutions to keep these bloody chihuahua crosses capable of these atrocoties off the street instead of defending the little bastards because they look like your darling mutley.

Who now (unfortunatley still looks a bit like them) is actually instead going to be thought to be a chihuahua cross anyway.

Edited June 11, 2013 by inez

[Pailin]

Just love the way the owners of these dogs prefer to call their darlings "staffies" instead of Pitties.

I would be making a bet, those mutts are the product of the thousands of invisible breeders with goodness knows what behind them

So you yourself admit that there is "goodness knows what" breeds mixed in there and yet you will state that they are Pitties? Seems pretty bizarre logic.

Why are people so caught up in labeling breeds? As if suddenly knowing what breed the dog MIGHT be will shed light on everything? I have a mixed breed dog, adopted as a puppy from the RSPCA as a Staffy cross. She is now above knee height, has a high waist tuck and is gawd knows what breed mixes. There are so many possible breed mixes that MAY make up her looks. She could be a small "bull arab" mix, an Amstaff X Whippet, a dalmation x staffy... the list goes on and the likelyhood that there are MANY breeds in her genetics stop me from even bothering to guess.

Yet everyone is so caught up in labels that they cannot take "Mixed breed" for an answer. We are out walking and someone will comment on how lovely she is and asks, "What breed is she?", I reply with "She is a mixed breed dog"...."Yes, but what breeds?" "Mixed of unknown origins" "Yeah but what kinds...". It is bizarre and can go around and around in circles, most people simply cannot take "Mixed breed" for an answer even though it is the most accurate I can give.

Many people believe that their BYB dogs are purebred. The amount of times I have seen someone claiming that their dog or puppies are purebred when you can clearly tell that they are NOT is astronomical. Seen it in Rotties, Neo Mastiffs, Mastiffs, Dobermans, Staffords, Amstaffs, Cavs, Poodles, Chihuahuas... the list is endless. How are we to know that the owners of these three dogs didn't truly believe that they were Staffies, or that their breed was predominantly staffy? They do appear to be Stafford CROSSES and given the huge numbers of "purebred" staffies being BYB, quite often crossed with Amstaffs, the breed confusion is understandable. I have seen people actually advertising pups as PUREBRED Staffies and going on to state that they are bred from "purebred (unpapered I would assume)" SBT mother and a purebred Amstaff father and so therefore they are still "Purebred" Staffies . It defies logic and yet people, who do not educate themselves further, believe it.

Yes these dogs looked too tall to be SBT but at the same time they looked to short to be Amstaffs.

This thread has been very educational and I enjoyed reading the advice on how to intervene in a dog fight and/or protect yourself and your dogs. Very enlightening.

[Clyde]

The dogs involved in this attack were not Amstaffs but SBTs and they looked purebred, not the typical mongrel pound Staffie.

Errr no, they were sterling examples of typical mongrel type "Staffies".

[inez]

Just love the way the owners of these dogs prefer to call their darlings "staffies" instead of Pitties.

I would be making a bet, those mutts are the product of the thousands of invisible breeders with goodness knows what behind them

So you yourself admit that there is "goodness knows what" breeds mixed in there and yet you will state that they are Pitties? Seems pretty bizarre logic.

Why are people so caught up in labeling breeds? As if suddenly knowing what breed the dog MIGHT be will shed light on everything? I have a mixed breed dog, adopted as a puppy from the RSPCA as a Staffy cross. She is now above knee height, has a high waist tuck and is gawd knows what breed mixes. There are so many possible breed mixes that MAY make up her looks. She could be a small "bull arab" mix, an Amstaff X Whippet, a dalmation x staffy... the list goes on and the likelyhood that there are MANY breeds in her genetics stop me from even bothering to guess.

Yet everyone is so caught up in labels that they cannot take "Mixed breed" for an answer. We are out walking and someone will comment on how lovely she is and asks, "What breed is she?", I reply with "She is a mixed breed dog"...."Yes, but what breeds?" "Mixed of unknown origins" "Yeah but what kinds...". It is bizarre and can go around and around in circles, most people simply cannot take "Mixed breed" for an answer even though it is the most accurate I can give.

Many people believe that their BYB dogs are purebred. The amount of times I have seen someone claiming that their dog or puppies are purebred when you can clearly tell that they are NOT is astronomical. Seen it in Rotties, Neo Mastiffs, Mastiffs, Dobermans, Staffords, Amstaffs, Cavs, Poodles, Chihuahuas... the list is endless. How are we to know that the owners of these three dogs didn't truly believe that they were Staffies, or that their breed was predominantly staffy? They do appear to be Stafford CROSSES and given the huge numbers of "purebred" staffies being BYB, quite often crossed with Amstaffs, the breed confusion is understandable. I have seen people actually advertising pups as PUREBRED Staffies and going on to state that they are bred from "purebred (unpapered I would assume)" SBT mother and a purebred Amstaff father and so therefore they are still "Purebred" Staffies . It defies logic and yet people, who do not educate themselves further, believe it.

Yes these dogs looked too tall to be SBT but at the same time they looked to short to be Amstaffs.

This thread has been very educational and I enjoyed reading the advice on how to intervene in a dog fight and/or protect yourself and your dogs. Very enlightening.

NO dear to save your fragile sensibilities they are hence forth to be described as chihuahua crosses.

So?

Has anyone contstructive ideas what do we do we need to carry on our person when bluff doesnt work and the attack is in earnest, what do you do next, if we are caught alone with no outside help forthcomming, when these chi x'breds like the ones in the video, or the mega bulk ones that took the jogger down, dont back off and wont let go.

Edited June 11, 2013 by inez

[TessiesTracey]

http://media.theage....gs-4477909.html

oh dear where did the vet get her "lock jaw" info from.

Idiot. What hope have we got when supposed experts don't even know what they're on about?

Were did you get that the vet said 'lock jaw' from? She certainly did not use that term during this interview. The journo said 'lock jaw'.

Absolutely correct. However, on the Seven News Melbourne report, the same Dr Sharee Maas states @ 1'19'' 's/he had a lock jaw so he wasn't going to move his head off that dog. I managed to get a vein and anaesthetise that dog'.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/vic/latest/a/-/article/17536298/two-women-mauled-in-dog-attacks/

Just saying.

[tdierikx]

What people don't seem to be noting here is the fact that these attacks - and the chances of being attacked in this way - are actually pretty rare...

This is not necessarily a daily occurrence, and so, arming yourselves when venturing outside your homes in order to ward off a possible dog attack seems pretty OTT.

Really - your chances of being hit by a car whilst crossing the road are actually higher than the chance of being attacked by roaming "pitbulls".

inez - is it at all possible that some of your thoughts/feelings on this particular topic stem from your own recent attack experience, rather than any evidence to the contrary? (I'm not meaning to be nasty here, just asking a question to clarify why you hold the stance that you do)

T.