BlackJaq Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I thought it was funny how many people thought they were fighting dogs. Really? They are known for hunting, sometimes in quite large packs and thus need to get along with their pack mates. Would be nice if some people did some research before condemning any breed to the "fighting dog" label. I also think it is sad that some people look at them and all they can say is "glad they are not here for dickheads to own". There are plenty of breeds here with no bad press (yet? their turn might come after we are finished with pitbulls, just like we finished with the other "vicious" breeds) who could be an absolute disaster if breeders were not taking great care in who they are selling to, so I doubt if the Dogo would make matters that much worse. I have also seen several dogs coming through pounds that had an uncanny likeness, so not sure that an import ban is really stopping any dickheads from owning them. Sourcing them from registered breeders? Definitely! Is that a good thing? Probably not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wobbly Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 No, the import ban won't stop anything. Silly to think it will. Most people here will say "Lovely dogs, wouldn't own one though" (me included) because we're aware of how big the commitment to such a dog would be, and we're realistic about our ability to manage such a commitment. Average Joe just thinks: "O wow, what an amazing looking dog, I want one", totally unaware of the reality of how high maintenance a dog like that is. This is an information deficit that could feasibly be addressed by educating prospective owners. An authoritative and comprehensive rundown of the management commitment a dog like this represents, would cause more sensible prospective owners to reassess their capacity to keep such an animal. The best way for that to happen is if the dogs are legalised so breeders can get together and organise a useful and comprehensive education program for prospective owners. I also keep thinking that maybe we rabid anti BSL people need to admit that different breeds requirements ARE very different - so it may be useful to consider that education may need to breed specific. Someone who wants a CKC certainly needs some education, but the knowledge, training and management requirements for a CKC vs a Dogo are poles apart in terms of the commitment required. I am not sure what a framework for differing levels of education based on the needs of a given breed would look like, maybe it's a useful idea, perhaps not, but I think it bears discussion. The dog pictured is in Italy, BSL is repealed there, if a dog hurts anyone, the owner goes to jail. We're missing that essential consequence here. I know I am preaching to the choir on that one. If we had education to prevent disaster, and jail for any injuries caused by negligent ownership, maybe many specific breeds would be less scary to people? I think in Italy, where there is no BSL and larger more imposing breeds of dogs are common, people don't fear particular breeds (they fear stray dog packs, which is a problem in some places there). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Italy is an illustrious example in my opinion. At one point in time Italy had extensive BSL, including poodles and JRTs. Obviously they have seen the light and they must have actually experienced an improvement in bite stats after alternative measures were put in place, otherwise I'm sure they would have gone back to BSL. Obviously some breeds need a lot more commitment and management than others, I totally agree. I don't have all the answers but I think education is definitely a solution that is greatly lacking in support, especially with BSL supporters. I don't want to name any breeds in particular, but off the top of my head I can think of at least 20 different breeds that require equal management and owner responsibility as the Dogo and are capable of doing the exact same amount of damage in the wrong hands. Yet somehow, despite the fact that these breeds are in fact present in Australia, there are no reports of their misdeeds on the news (or on the internet). As I said, responsible breeders being in charge of any breed is its single greatest defence against what has happened to some other breeds. To be honest, I think licensing requirements to own any dog, like there are to drive any car, would be a good thing. It is not only people who suffer when bad owners keep dogs, the dogs themselves often have less than stellar lives, regardless of breed. Failing that, there are plenty of laws already in place that, if enforced, might actually make a difference (like micro chip laws), but simply are not enforced. Maybe that would be a good starting point, instead of inventing more and more restrictive legislation. I have kind of given up on Australia making any positive changes though, at least until other countries (probably namely the US) first abolish all BSL, since Australia is not exactly on the cutting edge of innovation and would rather copy bad laws than make a positive change on their own, happily ignoring all positive examples around the world... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Hi Blackjaq, you are right in saying they aren't a common fighting breed (my mistake) but sadly they are being used more and more in fighting rings as their strength and power is becoming apparent to the wrong people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 You'd think they would be way too tall and at a disadvantage over a more traditionally sized pit dog.. Who knows, I'm not exactly in the loop on the current underground dog fighting circles, however, I have yet to see a photo of a confirmed pit dog with cropped ears. Most people who "know what they're doing" seem to prefer them with ears for some reason. Cropped ones are mostly pets and back yard/chain ornaments I would think A bunch of other breeds have been tried as pit dogs as far as I know as well, including Rottweilers and such, that doesn't mean that they are good at it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash1 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I have also seen several dogs coming through pounds that had an uncanny likeness, so not sure that an import ban is really stopping any dickheads from owning them. Sourcing them from registered breeders? Definitely! Is that a good thing? Probably not.. I am absolutely convinced of this. We adopted a "Bull Arab X Mastiff" from a pound in Northern Qld, he was the absolute spitting image of a Dogo both as a pup and an adult dog, absolutely no difference to the google photos except of course he had his ears. He was such a lovely lovely calm and placid boy, unfortunately we lost him to a snake earlier this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash1 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I have also seen several dogs coming through pounds that had an uncanny likeness, so not sure that an import ban is really stopping any dickheads from owning them. Sourcing them from registered breeders? Definitely! Is that a good thing? Probably not.. I am absolutely convinced of this. We adopted a "Bull Arab X Mastiff" from a pound in Northern Qld, he was the absolute spitting image of a Dogo both as a pup and an adult dog, absolutely no difference to the google photos except of course he had his ears. He was such a lovely lovely calm and placid boy, unfortunately we lost him to a snake earlier this year. Should probably add we hadn't even heard of a dogo when we got him, just thought he was a gorgeous bull arab pup - i.e., did not go out looking for a dogo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aetherglow Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 I have also seen several dogs coming through pounds that had an uncanny likeness, so not sure that an import ban is really stopping any dickheads from owning them. Sourcing them from registered breeders? Definitely! Is that a good thing? Probably not.. I am absolutely convinced of this. We adopted a "Bull Arab X Mastiff" from a pound in Northern Qld, he was the absolute spitting image of a Dogo both as a pup and an adult dog, absolutely no difference to the google photos except of course he had his ears. He was such a lovely lovely calm and placid boy, unfortunately we lost him to a snake earlier this year. I guess it would be incredibly easy to call a Dogo a Bull Arab. When you think about it, Bull Arabs are essentially a type bred for the same purpose as the Dogo, but without a recognised breed type, so any large, well muscled and athletic dog could go under the title. With any dog like that, selecting for stable temperament and early and consistent socialisation would be extremely important. It seems inconsistent to me to ban them given all the other hunting breeds we have allowed, although a smooth white coat is not the best of ideas in Australia. I think they are incredibly handsome with their ears natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Without trying to sound annoyed, they wouldn't make good fighting dogs. APBT make the best, that's why people use them. Whenever I read of people suggesting other breeds are for fighting I know this person is not speaking with knowledge but with fear and misunderstanding. I find dog fighting absolutely repulsive. Please don't make out every dog that scares you is used for fighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbath Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 If a dogo featured in a dog bite/attack incident out lovely media would report it as a pit bull anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adnil444 Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 No, the import ban won't stop anything. Silly to think it will. Most people here will say "Lovely dogs, wouldn't own one though" (me included) because we're aware of how big the commitment to such a dog would be, and we're realistic about our ability to manage such a commitment. Average Joe just thinks: "O wow, what an amazing looking dog, I want one", totally unaware of the reality of how high maintenance a dog like that is. This is an information deficit that could feasibly be addressed by educating prospective owners. An authoritative and comprehensive rundown of the management commitment a dog like this represents, would cause more sensible prospective owners to reassess their capacity to keep such an animal. The best way for that to happen is if the dogs are legalised so breeders can get together and organise a useful and comprehensive education program for prospective owners. I also keep thinking that maybe we rabid anti BSL people need to admit that different breeds requirements ARE very different - so it may be useful to consider that education may need to breed specific. Someone who wants a CKC certainly needs some education, but the knowledge, training and management requirements for a CKC vs a Dogo are poles apart in terms of the commitment required. I am not sure what a framework for differing levels of education based on the needs of a given breed would look like, maybe it's a useful idea, perhaps not, but I think it bears discussion. The dog pictured is in Italy, BSL is repealed there, if a dog hurts anyone, the owner goes to jail. We're missing that essential consequence here. I know I am preaching to the choir on that one. If we had education to prevent disaster, and jail for any injuries caused by negligent ownership, maybe many specific breeds would be less scary to people? I think in Italy, where there is no BSL and larger more imposing breeds of dogs are common, people don't fear particular breeds (they fear stray dog packs, which is a problem in some places there). Agree Wobbly, and another way is to stop all advertising of dogs via gumtree and similar. You should only be allowed to get a dog via a registered ethical breeder and from adoption. What we don't need are the morons out there, getting hold of these dogs and making a quick buck on the internet from selling the pups (usually to other morons). Pet shops also to stop selling dogs. And of course the punishment for any dog attack needs to be drastically increased - jail terms, huge fines, the victim being allowed to sue the crap out of the moron owners etc. Until we get a few people actually going to jail, losing their homes etc because they fail to do the right thing, we will continue to have attacks. People would think twice before owning these dogs if they knew they would be prosecuted if something happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 the OP hasn't been back since starting this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 the OP hasn't been back since starting this thread. It was fairly obvious that this was a troll thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 the OP hasn't been back since starting this thread. It was fairly obvious that this was a troll thread.... agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 the OP hasn't been back since starting this thread. It was fairly obvious that this was a troll thread.... agree. Yet, no one has been trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 the OP hasn't been back since starting this thread. It was fairly obvious that this was a troll thread.... agree. Yet, no one has been trolling. True it has been quite educational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 the OP hasn't been back since starting this thread. It was fairly obvious that this was a troll thread.... agree. Yet, no one has been trolling. True it has been quite educational. Would you like me to get the ball rolling? How about we discuss other band breeds? I would like to get a Rolling Stones pup, to go with my Cold Play bitch. I would like to get a Def Leppard puppy, but I'm not a fan of long hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 the OP hasn't been back since starting this thread. It was fairly obvious that this was a troll thread.... agree. Yet, no one has been trolling. True it has been quite educational. Would you like me to get the ball rolling? How about we discuss other band breeds? I would like to get a Rolling Stones pup, to go with my Cold Play bitch. I would like to get a Def Leppard puppy, but I'm not a fan of long hair. Geez I would have thought that with all your extensive training experience that you would know better!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aidan3 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 the OP hasn't been back since starting this thread. It was fairly obvious that this was a troll thread.... agree. Yet, no one has been trolling. True it has been quite educational. Would you like me to get the ball rolling? How about we discuss other band breeds? I would like to get a Rolling Stones pup, to go with my Cold Play bitch. I would like to get a Def Leppard puppy, but I'm not a fan of long hair. Geez I would have thought that with all your extensive training experience that you would know better!!!! It's true, I have had extensive training experience in trolling. Do you think we should eradicate band breeds? Reeks of eugenics to me. Then what would we be left with? No more Genesis puppies, and a whole lot of Phil Collins puppies. No thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesP Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 the OP hasn't been back since starting this thread. It was fairly obvious that this was a troll thread.... agree. Yet, no one has been trolling. True it has been quite educational. Would you like me to get the ball rolling? How about we discuss other band breeds? I would like to get a Rolling Stones pup, to go with my Cold Play bitch. I would like to get a Def Leppard puppy, but I'm not a fan of long hair. Geez I would have thought that with all your extensive training experience that you would know better!!!! It's true, I have had extensive training experience in trolling. Do you think we should eradicate band breeds? Reeks of eugenics to me. Then what would we be left with? No more Genesis puppies, and a whole lot of Phil Collins puppies. No thanks! Not sure there is any place for talk of Band breeds on this forum. tut tut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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