Desexing Age.

[Diva]

I'd desex a male before maturity for a retained testicle but not much else. Not sure why prostate issues would be seen as a reason to do so - according to a lecture I attended in the US recently given by a university-based reproductive specialist malignant prostate cancer is twice as common in desexed dogs than entire.

[Dame Aussie]

Vets can be very one sided when it comes to desexing, just be sure to look at the pros and cons.

[Florise]

There is a very informative and sensible post by Wundahoo in andrewang's topic regarding this subject

[Blackdogs]

I used a suprelorin implant on my Kelpie and he was quite nervy whilst on it. I have no interest in desexing him. He is seven now and recently had an ultrasound of his prostate which revealed that it's actually quite small.

[OSoSwift]

If all the entire dogs died from nasty cancers ect before maturity then there would be no puppies.

I would go with your breeders advice. I have had many dogs that have been desexed late or not at all and they have lived to old ages or died from something totally unrelated to their reproducutive organs.

I have seen one dog with cancer in a retained testicle and he was 8 years of age. It is not going to spring up that quickly. I have seen quite a few dogs with retained testicles.

Edited June 12, 2013 by OSoSwift

[OSoSwift]

I know in many european conutries desexing is not the norm and many pet dogs are entire and live happy healthy long lives.

Yes for many desexing is the key as they cannot keep their dogs from falling pregant etc but I would prefer facts are used when pushing it rather than the scare tactics.

[BlackJaq]

I know in many european conutries desexing is not the norm and many pet dogs are entire and live happy healthy long lives.

Yes for many desexing is the key as they cannot keep their dogs from falling pregant etc but I would prefer facts are used when pushing it rather than the scare tactics.

I agree. If your dog is being managed responsibly I see no reason why you have to neuter if you do not want to, although it can make management a lot easier obviously, especially if there is more than one dog in the household.

If your breeders finds that their line of boys are likely to experience certain cancers due to being entire then I would probably opt to neuter but otherwise I would not see it as a priority just now

[BoxerB]

huge thankyou all!! You've put my mind at ease a little and will spend a lot more time doing some reasearch specific to the breed and as BlackJaq has mentioned, will speak to my breeder for some more info.

At this stage though i do think i'm on the right track by letting him mature before desexing, if ever :)

[Diva]

huge thankyou all!! You've put my mind at ease a little and will spend a lot more time doing some reasearch specific to the breed and as BlackJaq has mentioned, will speak to my breeder for some more info.

At this stage though i do think i'm on the right track by letting him mature before desexing, if ever :)

To be frank I have never neutered any of my male dogs and none have had any behavioural or health problems as a result of being entire - but it does depend on the owners ability and willingness to keep the dog secure, of course.

[Nekhbet]

huge thankyou all!! You've put my mind at ease a little and will spend a lot more time doing some reasearch specific to the breed and as BlackJaq has mentioned, will speak to my breeder for some more info.

At this stage though i do think i'm on the right track by letting him mature before desexing, if ever

let's put it logically...

people are being fearmongered into removing normal organs from their animals. Normal. Required for maturity, growth and maintenance.

Why should you worry your dog has it's testicles any more then your dog has 4 legs, a tail and two eyes?

Frankly if vet's are so worried about unwanted puppies they should be more willing to do partial speys and vasectomies that include more then just a quick snippy of the tubes but removal of a length of it to prevent potential rejoining that seems to be the excuse not to do it. Your problem is most vets just repeat what little they're told, and keep parrot fashioning at you until you comply. That's when you find a more logical vet that is willing to see both sides of the coin.

[BCNut]

My experience of my first (and only) male BC I kept entire until 12 months of age: Bloody nightmare.

This was on my vet's recommendation as his breeding (lineage) was not particularly impressive and as a result his structure was neither impressive. I also made the point to said vet that I wanted to train agility/flyball/frisbee with him and have him run with me etc as I have an active lifestyle. So I read around a few papers (from as credible sources as one can find freely on the web) and I did find a consistent theme of leaving males intact until 12-18 months if they are to lead an active lifestyle as the increased exposure of certain hormones such as growth hormone and testosterone nurtures bone and joint development which has obvious beneficial effects for the performance dog.

What is worth noting about my particular entire male dog is the transition from puppyhood to adolescence (which, mind you is challenging at the best of times regardless of entire, or not) surely took a few years off my life in terms of focus. It seemed that all the previous ~6 months of training I had put in with him went out the window - I went from having rock solid 100% recalls around other dogs (his highest value item) to having to go back to square one with his recall. Off lead he turned into a frantic sniffer and marker (and I mean frantic - running from one vertical surface to the next, foaming at the mouth) and completely inattentive mad man. You could actually pick the bitches at the dog park just by the way he followed them around relentlessly.

It got so bad at one point in time we could only do training inside which, as you can imagine, is pretty useless for dog sport type training.

When he was neutered a few days after his 1st birthday, it was like flicking a switch. The recall came back, he lost interest in other dogs (not to the point where he didn't like them - he was just no longer completely ga-ga over them), the marking stopped, the sniffing stopped and I had focus back to where we were originally.

I now have a female BC pup with great lineage and structure who will be desexed before first season at ~6 months. This is on recommendation from breeder and vet. I understand the greatest benefit with regard to mammary cancer, specifically, is to be had from spaying a bitch before her 1st season (near eliminates risk). She is also going to be a performance dog but as she has great structure it was not seen to be necessary to delay spaying her. Also she is on limited register.

Thats just my experience. I guess this just reciprocates the message that it should be an individual choice that is made by you, for your circumstances considering lifestyle, goals for dog, any behaviour issues that crop up in the meantime. Don't get me wrong, I think training is far more important than castrating a dog just because he gets growly at other dogs, for example - but I know for a fact based on my experience that neutering has a significant impact on behaviour.

Edited June 12, 2013 by BCNut

[Dame Aussie]

huge thankyou all!! You've put my mind at ease a little and will spend a lot more time doing some reasearch specific to the breed and as BlackJaq has mentioned, will speak to my breeder for some more info.

At this stage though i do think i'm on the right track by letting him mature before desexing, if ever

let's put it logically...

people are being fearmongered into removing normal organs from their animals. Normal. Required for maturity, growth and maintenance.

Why should you worry your dog has it's testicles any more then your dog has 4 legs, a tail and two eyes?

Frankly if vet's are so worried about unwanted puppies they should be more willing to do partial speys and vasectomies that include more then just a quick snippy of the tubes but removal of a length of it to prevent potential rejoining that seems to be the excuse not to do it. Your problem is most vets just repeat what little they're told, and keep parrot fashioning at you until you comply. That's when you find a more logical vet that is willing to see both sides of the coin.

[BlackJaq]

BCNut, in your case I probably would have neutered as well.

But if I was happy with the dog's behaviour I probably would not do it just for the heck of it.

Both my females are spayed btw, one done after 3 heat cycles and one before release from the pound at about 10 months old. The main reason I had my pure bred bitch spayed was convenience as she is an indoor dog and I did not intend on breeding her (obviously she was the one spayed after 3 cycles, by this point she was about 18 months old, if I were to have my time again I might even leave it longer as my breed matures rather slowly).

I would be more reluctant to keep a female entire forever than a male, mostly because of the potential for pyometra as they age

Edited June 12, 2013 by BlackJaq

[corvus]

What is meant by "development"? Do you mean physical, emotional, personality, physiological development..? Do people realise there have been plenty of men and women sterilised at an early age? Eunuchs live longer than unaltered men, and report being happier. It's not so pretty with women, but the reasons why it was done in women are usually disturbing.

[BlackJaq]

Yes, people have been sterilized at an early age. Do you have any documentation to show how this has influenced their development? Do Eunuchs live longer than all unaltered men or are there unaltered men who outlive Eunuchs? How many Eunuch do they have to outlive to prove their physical health is better? And how do Eunuchs know that they are happier than unaltered men?

What was the perceived problem with women? Why are the reasons more disturbing than those for chopping the testicles off a man, making him a Eunuch?

I am genuinely interested because I know many entire dogs who have outlived neutered males. Are there actual surveys or studies on this? I don't recall ever coming across one but then I have not actually looked into it, having girl dogs. If an entire male is not exposed to in heat bitches, I cannot imagine why he would be less happy than an altered male dog? Or are you inferring that male hormones somehow make males unhappy?

Edited June 12, 2013 by BlackJaq

[corvus]

Yeah, there are studies. Don't have time to find them for you right now, but Google Scholar is your friend.

I don't know why eunuchs are apparently happier. But human happiness is a fair bit more complicated than animal happiness, one would assume. At any rate, it seems there are impacts of reproductive status on personality in dogs. There is evidence for it. I doubt it is 100% in any animal, but that's not to say it's not significant. I don't know if it's positive or negative. Depends on the dog, maybe.

[Nekhbet]

If you also look at how culturally eunichs are treated their happiness and longevity may be attributed to better living and dietary conditions. Many of them were created with a purpose in mind and instead of living lowly, laborious lives they usually went into relative luxury in palaces, high houses etc.

[minimax]

My male pug, desexed at 13 weeks and currently 14 months old, has two entire brothers, and although they live in very different environments so this is a factor as well, he is so much more chilled out than they are!

The other main difference is that he is taking a lot longer to get rid of his 'baby coat'.

[Diva]

My male pug, desexed at 13 weeks and currently 14 months old, has two entire brothers, and although they live in very different environments so this is a factor as well, he is so much more chilled out than they are!

The other main difference is that he is taking a lot longer to get rid of his 'baby coat'.

Can it still be baby coat at 14 months or do you think his coat will always be different?

[minimax]

My male pug, desexed at 13 weeks and currently 14 months old, has two entire brothers, and although they live in very different environments so this is a factor as well, he is so much more chilled out than they are!

The other main difference is that he is taking a lot longer to get rid of his 'baby coat'.

Can it still be baby coat at 14 months or do you think his coat will always be different?

His dad didn't get his 'final' coat till after 2 years of age, so if that's anything to go by it's possible he's still going. It's changing, slowly! He's got a racing stripe at the moment :laugh: