A Cautionary Tale About People Getting Things Very Wrong

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I was recently at a friend's house when a relative arrived and happily told me that she had recently purchased 2 puppies - both male Am Staffs from a "breeder".

I was told that the last dog had been able to get out and wander. I was very concerned and I gave the new owner, a very inexperienced person, some advice to get the dogs desexed around 5 months, to reinforce the fencing, to get the puppies to proper obedience training so that they could be walked on the lead etc etc.

This person had young children and a cat that the dogs wanted "to eat" and a busy life of course ...

3 months on - last week I got a phone call to say that things were going badly wrong - the dogs were now 6 months of age - basically all the advice I'd given had been ignored.

The dogs had been fighting, getting out of the yard and a family member had their hand badly bitten trying to intervene and ended up in hospital having surgery. That morning the dogs had been out and knocked someone over trying to get at their small dog. The dogs' owner had called the police and the council, trying to find out if the older aged person was OK?

The fence hadn't been fixed and no one could come and fix it there and then. The dogs weren't yet desexed and had not received any training, they were out of control.

The owner had been ringing rescue groups to see if someone would take them. I suggested calling the breeder as they should never have allowed an inexperienced person to take two siblings. Good registered breeders don't do that with any breed, let alone Am Staffs and the breeder should take some responsibility. I said to ring AWL and the RSPCA as they'd be able to assess and perhaps train them.

I didn't hear back, I was at work and couldn't do any more but I have now found out that the most aggressive dog was euthanased. The breeder was a back yard breeder of course and not interested as they'd had their money. The RSPCA would not guarantee that they would take the dogs - apparently they assess them and can turn you down - I haven't heard that before but I don't blame them, they must be sick and tired of cleaning up people's messes.

They are trying to make a go of it with the other dog. I hope it works.

Sadly I could have put money on this outcome.

Edited June 7, 2013 by dogmad

[persephone]

yep...and it is a common thing ..poor pups.

[grizabella]

It's heartbreaking to think how common these sorts of stories must be. When will people learn to take responsibility?

[Staffyluv]

I was recently at a friend's house when a relative arrived and happily told me that she had recently purchased 2 puppies - both male Am Staffs from a "breeder".

I was told that the last dog had been able to get out and wander. I was very concerned and I gave the new owner, a very inexperienced person, some advice to get the dogs desexed around 5 months, to reinforce the fencing, to get the puppies to proper obedience training so that they could be walked on the lead etc etc.

This person had young children and a cat that the dogs wanted "to eat" and a busy life of course ...

3 months on - last week I got a phone call to say that things were going badly wrong - the dogs were now 6 months of age - basically all the advice I'd given had been ignored.

The dogs had been fighting, getting out of the yard and a family member had their hand badly bitten trying to intervene and ended up in hospital having surgery. That morning the dogs had been out and knocked someone over trying to get at their small dog. The dogs' owner had called the police and the council, trying to find out if the older aged person was OK?

The fence hadn't been fixed and no one could come and fix it there and then. The dogs weren't yet desexed and had not received any training, they were out of control.

The owner had been ringing rescue groups to see if someone would take them. I suggested calling the breeder as they should never have allowed an inexperienced person to take two siblings. Good registered breeders don't do that with any breed, let alone Am Staffs and the breeder should take some responsibility. I said to ring AWL and the RSPCA as they'd be able to assess and perhaps train them.

I didn't hear back, I was at work and couldn't do any more but I have now found out that the most aggressive dog was euthanased. The breeder was a back yard breeder of course and not interested as they'd had their money. The RSPCA would not guarantee that they would take the dogs - apparently they assess them and can turn you down - I haven't heard that before but I don't blame them, they must be sick and tired of cleaning up people's messes.

They are trying to make a go of it with the other dog. I hope it works.

Sadly I could have put money on this outcome.

Wow!

So a few months ago some one had a couple of pups, now those pups would only be what 6 months old (they really are not that big at 6 months).

They needed surgery from intervening between a couple of 6 month old pups?

So they euthed a pup??

Again wow!

Zig was 6 months old when I got him from the pound - there is no way he could have caused me damage enough to warrant surgery. Pups usually respond to a good yell and they let go quick smart.

I think your friend is telling porky pies :) (just my opinion of course, with the little bit of experience I have with bull breeds).

But you get no argument from me about BYBing of ANY breed..

[mantis]

As soon as I saw who the thread starter was, I knew it was going to be another Bull Breed bashing thread.

[gillbear]

As soon as I saw who the thread starter was, I knew it was going to be another Bull Breed bashing thread.

It isnt a bull breed bashing thread, its a stupid owner bashing thread.

[persephone]

They needed surgery from intervening between a couple of 6 month old pups?

I have seen 6 month old lab pups ripping each other apart ..and yes, they were serious , and a hose was used to get them to back off - no way would I have put a hand near them - a yell certainly is not going to stop seriously aggressive , ripping - out of flesh - fighting .

Edited June 7, 2013 by persephone

[OSoSwift]

I have seen a 12 week old Border Collie puppy open up it's litter brothers throat badly requiring a decent amount of surgery to close it. I could definately see this happening.

Yet another dog dieing due to a moron owner.

[trinabean]

A family friend had two of the most unstable dogs I've ever known, and yes, they were litter mates. They had severe separation anxiety (could not be boarded, and didn't cope with pet-sitters either).They were aggressive around food, would 'guard' their owners from others and (each other) and they were snappy with children (supervised, well-behaved ones at that). They lived until about 17 years old. So 17 years of managing, medicating, watching them carefully around others/kids/food, and no holidays.

It taught me a lesson. I'd never want to take on the challenge of raising littermates.

Edited to add: These dogs were miniature poodles.

Edited June 7, 2013 by trinabean

[Pjrt]

Ha! I once had a 4 month old miniature poodle in my salon for it's first haircut. It was sitting behind the baby gate divider when another client came to pick up their little dog. I asked the client not to touch the puppy and turned my back for all of 5 seconds to retrieve her dog from the trolley. What did she do but stick her arm over the baby gate to pet the tiny poodle puppy. It leapt up full of youthful enthusiasm and went to 'play' with her dangling fingers and what happened accidently was the puppies sharp teeth wracked down her index finger taking out all the tendons.....so without even trying a small 4 month old miniature poodle can put you in hospital for extensive plastic surgery!

dear dog, have you ever seen some breeds of terrier at it by 8 weeks old play 'killing' each other!

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

As soon as I saw who the thread starter was, I knew it was going to be another Bull Breed bashing thread.

Hardly but this is the response i'd expect from you, you seem to have a problem working out the issue here, you'd probably rather i'd refrained from mentioning the breed. Sorry, I can't help but be honest, i'm not going to be doing anyone any favours by telling lies and if you can't see any issues beyond the words Am Staff, then I am not going to define it all for you :)

And Staffyluv - sorry, the person was in a state when they rang me and told me what had been going on. They weren't lying about anything. I was shocked when I heard the outcome later but this was definitely someone who shouldn't have two littermates of any breed, let alone a large breed that needed proper management.

I'm only glad that no one outside the property was hurt or their pets.

[tdierikx]

The RSPCA don't assess and refuse to take a surrender... but they do charge a surrender fee...

I've seen 10 week old pups scrapping nastily, and seen the result of someone putting their hand in to try and stop them... numerous stitches required.

It really doesn't matter what the breed of dog is - if they are a larger type of dog, they need at least basic obedience training and socialisation from an early age. In a perfect world I'd like to see basic obedience and socialisation for ALL dogs - regardless of breed type or size.

T.

[WreckitWhippet]

As soon as I saw who the thread starter was, I knew it was going to be another Bull Breed bashing thread.

exactly.

and there you have it

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

As soon as I saw who the thread starter was, I knew it was going to be another Bull Breed bashing thread.

exactly.

and there you have it

And you wouldn't happen to have your own agenda would you?

I don't believe a breeder should give anyone two litter mates, it's commonly a recipe for disaster. With my own rescue we currently have a problem where a breeder sold two littermates to someone who had 4 kids and a busy life. They are a highly strung breed and haven't improved in the last few months. These dogs lived in the bushes at the owner's house, no one could get near them.

They haven't improved much and the problem is that with their current behaviour, they won't make a good pet for anyone. They are not aggressive in any way, just living in their own world.

[twodoggies2001]

Why are people so sensitive when it comes to bull breeds. If the dog in question is indeed a bull breed, then that's that. I don't care what breed the dog is, if it's a problem dog, or in the hands of an unsuitable owner then ultimately, it's the dog (no matter the breed) who pays the consequences.

[Kirislin]

that's so sad. Poor dogs, idiot, irresponsible breeder and foolish owners who wouldn't listen. I hope they dont get anymore dogs.

[Kirislin]

I was recently at a friend's house when a relative arrived and happily told me that she had recently purchased 2 puppies - both male Am Staffs from a "breeder".

I was told that the last dog had been able to get out and wander. I was very concerned and I gave the new owner, a very inexperienced person, some advice to get the dogs desexed around 5 months, to reinforce the fencing, to get the puppies to proper obedience training so that they could be walked on the lead etc etc.

This person had young children and a cat that the dogs wanted "to eat" and a busy life of course ...

3 months on - last week I got a phone call to say that things were going badly wrong - the dogs were now 6 months of age - basically all the advice I'd given had been ignored.

The dogs had been fighting, getting out of the yard and a family member had their hand badly bitten trying to intervene and ended up in hospital having surgery. That morning the dogs had been out and knocked someone over trying to get at their small dog. The dogs' owner had called the police and the council, trying to find out if the older aged person was OK?

The fence hadn't been fixed and no one could come and fix it there and then. The dogs weren't yet desexed and had not received any training, they were out of control.

The owner had been ringing rescue groups to see if someone would take them. I suggested calling the breeder as they should never have allowed an inexperienced person to take two siblings. Good registered breeders don't do that with any breed, let alone Am Staffs and the breeder should take some responsibility. I said to ring AWL and the RSPCA as they'd be able to assess and perhaps train them.

I didn't hear back, I was at work and couldn't do any more but I have now found out that the most aggressive dog was euthanased. The breeder was a back yard breeder of course and not interested as they'd had their money. The RSPCA would not guarantee that they would take the dogs - apparently they assess them and can turn you down - I haven't heard that before but I don't blame them, they must be sick and tired of cleaning up people's messes.

They are trying to make a go of it with the other dog. I hope it works.

Sadly I could have put money on this outcome.

Wow!

So a few months ago some one had a couple of pups, now those pups would only be what 6 months old (they really are not that big at 6 months).

They needed surgery from intervening between a couple of 6 month old pups?

So they euthed a pup??

Again wow!

Zig was 6 months old when I got him from the pound - there is no way he could have caused me damage enough to warrant surgery. Pups usually respond to a good yell and they let go quick smart.

I think your friend is telling porky pies :) (just my opinion of course, with the little bit of experience I have with bull breeds).

But you get no argument from me about BYBing of ANY breed..

My whippet puppies gashed Feathers neck open when they still had their milk teeth. It sliced through her skin like a razor and I could see her jugular pulsing underneath. Puppies can be very savage. Oh, and it wasn't an accident. They fought several times always drawing blood, I eventually had to rehome one when she was about 14months old.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Kirislin

[Dame Aussie]

We had two littermates till the age of 17 each, they were awesome dogs so it isn't always a disaster to get littermates.

Very sad story, the dogs always pay.

Edited June 7, 2013 by Aussie3

[Staffyluv]

Why are people so sensitive when it comes to bull breeds. If the dog in question is indeed a bull breed, then that's that. I don't care what breed the dog is, if it's a problem dog, or in the hands of an unsuitable owner then ultimately, it's the dog (no matter the breed) who pays the consequences.

It isn't so much that it is about bull breeds - we all know there are dangerous dogs out there and unfortunately a large proportion seem to be bull breeds (owned by idiots)..

I think Mantis's point is more the fact that if your read back over DMs posts - it seems to be that the majority of her threads are about some bull breed or other and all the bad they do. Never has she posted about other breeds and deeds - just bull breeds.

No offence intended DM - it is just how I read your stuff and I dare say a lot of other do as well. It appears obvious that you don't like them and that is fine (no one said you had to.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Why are people so sensitive when it comes to bull breeds. If the dog in question is indeed a bull breed, then that's that. I don't care what breed the dog is, if it's a problem dog, or in the hands of an unsuitable owner then ultimately, it's the dog (no matter the breed) who pays the consequences.

It isn't so much that it is about bull breeds - we all know there are dangerous dogs out there and unfortunately a large proportion seem to be bull breeds (owned by idiots)..

I think Mantis's point is more the fact that if your read back over DMs posts - it seems to be that the majority of her threads are about some bull breed or other and all the bad they do. Never has she posted about other breeds and deeds - just bull breeds.

No offence intended DM - it is just how I read your stuff and I dare say a lot of other do as well. It appears obvious that you don't like them and that is fine (no one said you had to.

No offence taken Mantis. Bull breeds are very popular these days, this wasn't always the case - I worked at the AWL for 3 years in the late 1990s and only saw 1 purebred staffy (who was a most wonderful dog) and a handful of staffy crosses (1 of whom I wanted to adopt but couldn't find anywhere to rent with a dog). I have posted about other breeds, I help owners rehome all types of dogs, including the odd bull breed.

I've been attacked by bull breed lovers for saying anything negative about this type of dog.

I can't predict what people are going to do, or the stories they are going to tell me or what I'm going to find of interest. If it was a greyhound I'd relate the same story - I love greyhounds but am completely aware of their shortcomings.

Whilst I am prepared to take every dog on its own merits, I constantly have people telling me they've had problems with bull breeds, it seems that too many owners don't understand what their dog is capable of or are uninterested in managing their dog.

And for the record, I'm not keen on Rottweilers either, having had more than one terrifying experience with that breed (different dogs) but I hardly see them. On the other hand, I'm completely surrounded by people who own bull breeds and let them wander and it has definitely made my life very difficult.