Training Question? 's

[BC Crazy]

Even though Sonny seemed to get very frustrated during our training session the other day I made sure we ended on a happy note. I just took him back to very easy things, which he throws himself into & praised him lots, then finished. As I say I haven't one on one trained him for ages so I very well may of over whelmed him. Am going to try again with a very different, slower approach next time. See how we go.

I am finding this thread very interesting. Not just because I started it lol but with all the feedback it is a learning curve for me as well. Keep them coming please.

Edited June 6, 2013 by BC Crazy

[corvus]

I forgot to say before that in the trick video when Erik does his meerkat pose you can see he pokes my hand half a dozen times or so. That's another way to get duration with a fast and active dog. I taught the trick with a hand target and he learnt to hold the position because I kept the target signal there for multiple touches. A cleaner trainer would teach the dog to hold their nose on the target rather than poke it multiple times. ;) This is a reward placement thing as well. If you want them to stick on the target you should feed them as close to it as possible to begin with. This is a general rule of thumb that holds for a lot of things. Mark the movement, feed the position. I love training my doves. They are SO MUCH HARDER than dogs. They spend a lot of time staring at me motionless, but when they move they are fast and there's not much warning and it's all over in an instant. Training doves teaches me better timing. I'm doing chicken camp in July, and I can't wait!!

[BC Crazy]

Hi BC

Keep the training sessions really short and fun - no matter how far away they are from what you want.

All the different offerings - are part of an "extinction burst" while your frustrated dog (Sonny) tries to figure out what you want. At least he's hanging in there and trying stuff.

My dog would offer up a nice sit stay and stare. And that was it, so I had to try distracting her and then rewarding every different thing to get her to offer up stuff at all. At the moment I'm trying to get an ear flick on cue - but she doesn't quite get it. When she gets frustrated she just barks and barks and barks... and the best way for me to deal with that if it gets out of hand is to leave the room and shut a door between us until she's quiet. But it usually means the re-inforcement rate is not there and she's frustrated and not dealing with it.

Building up a dog's tolerance to frustration is like building up their stay durations - start with a little bit - a few seconds at a time.

If he lies down on the perch - I would make a higher perch. I use old phone books wrapped in towels. I really ought to tie them up with packing tape so they don't wobble but I like the wobble I guess. Cheaper than fitpaws gear anyway.

So it's ok to quit a training session after 5 minutes even if you felt like you got nowhere. Just leave it for a while and try again later, or try something different later.

For heelwork - I would like Huski said - start with the dog parked next to me and reward that. Take a small step forward, say "go" (release) and if he steps up to the position where he was getting rewarded - reward that - then I'd stop, release and play tug or run chase the boss and then maybe go back to it for 2 to 5 attempts - no more. Not till he "gets" it better.

Remember to reward in position - if the dog is where you want, they should be able to stay there to get and eat the treat. they shouldn't have to move away from the right position until you release them for play or whatever.

The other dog - needs to be rewarded as much if not more for being *calm* out of the training spot (like Corvus video). But you might need to start with just training that. Eg put Sonny on leash, put Stella on the mat (tied up if necessary), reward Sonny for being next to you in the "reinforcement zone" and Stella for being calm on the mat. Then try to mix up the distance a bit - by half a metre. And duration by a few seconds. And swap dogs every five attempts or so.

It's ok (according to Bob Baily) to finish on a failure. And there are some studies that suggest that dogs do better with one session a week than one session (or even three sessions) a day on the same training task. Sometimes it works better to have 10 different games to get the same end result - cos that way it takes longer to get bored and frustrated with them.

You make some very interesting/positive points Mrs RB. Appreciate your input very much, thanks. :)

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

hi BC Crazy

Most of what I know - I learned from Susan Garrett's dvds and seminars. She's coming to Queensland this November 2013... send an email to agilityclick.com Cathy Slot if you want to get the inside info on this - or you can google SG...

A lot of what SG knows - she learned from Bob Bailey... and then she's taken it to a higher level for dogs.

[BC Crazy]

I have Susan Garrett's crate games dvd. Which I have only just watched & was amazed at her ideas & the dogs enthusiam to get into their crates. Would loooovvvve to go to one of her seminars Mrs RB

QLD is about a 10 hour car trip one way for us. Wonder if she's doing any others???

I am currently watching Control Unleashed by Lesie Dermitt I think it is. She is good too but I find her a bit annoying for some reason. That's not saying she doesn't know her stuff. But that's just me.

I love Kikkopup on Utube. Really like her enthusiam & how she breaks everything down. I have learning difficulties so she is a godsend.

Also think Michael Ellis is a legend. I am going to buy his latest DVD as he is another that explains it all thoroughly & his methods make perfect sense to me.

Yesterday's short training session went a lot better. I kept it really very simple. We went outside where I tied Stella up & put her on her mat. Put Sonny on his lead & just practised walking around the b.yard.

Whenever he stayed in a heel position, he was rewarded. I just went over all the basic obedience moves. while walking, if he went in front of me I just stopped, said nothing & let him re position himself into a sit/heel

which he did quite quickly, then off we went again. He remained very calm & he seemed to really enjoyed it. No squealing or throwing tanti's

I rewarded Stella as we walked passed her & she only whimpered a bit when I got out of sight which I ignored. After 5mins I swapped dogs & off we went doing the same thing. Stella is really good on lead, never goes

in front etc but being very reactive she only has issues when we are out & about. Mowers. whipper snippers & on coming, medium size dogs that are acting up, barking, running off leash etc .Movement seems to be Stella's trigger.

Anyway, we ended on a very positive note with a game of Flirt Poles, their favourite. This is going to be a very slow process but I believe we are all going to greatly benefit. I have set myself some goal's.

For Sonny, I would really like a strong heel. Which in turn will help me to have him not pull on lead. Also a reliable Stay.. They are his 2 obedience weak points. Other than that I'd like to reteach fetch as he has started

failing to return what I throw for some reason

Stella, I am trying to help her conquer her reactiveness to movement. She is the fun police big time. I'd also want to help her not be quite as 'needy' as she is with Sonny & also myself. So gradual separation whilst training

can only help I think. Gradually building time & duration. Hopefully I am on the right track. Time will tell I guess & I have plenty of that :)

Edited June 8, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

QLD is about a 10 hour car trip one way for us.

You wuss.

I do the trip from Adelaide via Canberra, Sydney, Wyong, Armidale (to visit friends and rellies on the way). Plus the New England Highway from Wyong is faster than the Pacific Highway. About 5,000 km and at least three to four weeks including the seminar.

She does online seminars / courses too. You can get a lot of good stuff this way, and you can get feedback by posting videos too. Though lots of trainers will do this.

Sometimes Cathy brings trainers to NSW or Victoria - but it helps to have a sponsoring club and a nice venue with dog friendly accommodation. Riverwood downs was a bit humid, soggy and cramped and too much like school camp, and they didn't do nice vegan food (SG is vegan).

Hopefully the control unleashed info will help you with the doggy reactiveness - it's harder to control your training environment with this - cos she's not likely to do all the bad things in your yard. But working on the distant outskirts of a dog park or dog training school might help.

When you start on the basics - the training can seem really slow and almost pointless - until the dog gets it and then oh joy. I'm usually completely surprised and grateful - how did my dog learn to weave?

[BC Crazy]

God MRB, you cover a lot of ground !!! Have been to Riverwood Downs, won't be going back. Not a fan of that place. Lots of people think it is great but it just wasn't my cup of tea.

Sonny loved it though. He pretty much swam the whole time we where there in the river as it was extremely hot when we went. We only live about 1 hour away if that.

Yes & I agree regarding Stella & working on the outskirts of a dog park as I was thinking when I am recovered from my surgery I was going to take her to obedience training but not

to compete. Just to lurk on the sidelines & let her soak up the atmosphere at first, then gradually incorporate some simple training exercises. She how she goes.