Dog Walkers Fight Over Leash

[JulesP]

Another thing - how about people with dogs on-leash in off-leash areas not approaching dogs who are playing off-leash? Or does it only work the other way?

I don't approach. Both me and the dogs are snobs

[Aidan3]

Another thing - how about people with dogs on-leash in off-leash areas not approaching dogs who are playing off-leash? Or does it only work the other way?

I don't approach. Both me and the dogs are snobs

...snobs with common-sense!

[Salukifan]

My dog is the least of their problems, but I think this ill-placed sense of entitlement that some people have needs to be kept in check. In my area there are a range of excellent options to suit every sort of dog. I live right by this beach, but in 9 years I didn't take my reactive dog there because it wasn't fair to other users or to her.

The difficulty you confront is that a dog owner who doesn't know you or your dog, doesn't know that. They don't know how savvy you are or that you have an effective recall. They operate blind.

I agree that taking a nervous or reactive dog on lead into a busy, designated offlead area isn't wise.

But focussing on the original scenario in this thread, as explained by Diva, that wasn't the case here.

[JulesP]

Another thing - how about people with dogs on-leash in off-leash areas not approaching dogs who are playing off-leash? Or does it only work the other way?

I don't approach. Both me and the dogs are snobs

...snobs with common-sense!

Yeah. I haven't done the beach thing yet as it does bother me. I try to avoid stand around type off lead areas.

[Dame Aussie]

Another thing - how about people with dogs on-leash in off-leash areas not approaching dogs who are playing off-leash? Or does it only work the other way?

I don't approach. Both me and the dogs are snobs

Same here. If my dog is on lead it's because I don't want it to interact with other unknown dogs, which is why I rarely, if ever, go to off lead areas anyway.

[corvus]

.

Edited June 5, 2013 by corvus

[Dame Aussie]

I haven't seen anyone here say they would punch or kick an approaching dog?

I certainly didn't.

[corvus]

Sorry, that was poorly phrased. I can't be bothered re-phrasing, so I deleted it.

[Salukifan]

I haven't seen anyone here say they would punch or kick an approaching dog?

I certainly didn't.

I have done it once. A dog picked up one of my poodles in its mouth and shook it (spraining his hip) and was coming back in hard for the second one. Poodle 1 is screaming in my arms, Poodle 2 is a sitting duck. Owner off some distance paying no attention with young child supposedly in control of the dog. I didn't hesitate to kick the crap out of it. I did get abused. Meh.

And I got told that as a small dog owner "I over reacted". Riiiight. Perhaps I should only react to the sight of blood?

That was the last time I ever took the little dogs to a fenced, populated off leash area. I consider the lesson learned to be quite a cheap one. My dog survived.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[halfthewords]

I've laid into other dogs (physically moving them with my body/leg/foot, only had to actually kick a dog once) if they've either come barrelling up or acted aggressively towards any of my dogs. Carl can take care of himself being >10kgs, but Mischa is barely 3kgs soaking wet and she's 10 years old. I'm not taking chances, especially when most owners at dog parks are too busy yapping or preoccupied with their phones to watch what their dogs are doing!

Laying into another person, however... :laugh: Bit far!

[tdierikx]

I have lost count of how many times I've felt like slapping a clueless dog owner upside the head when out in public with my dogs - but one normally stops short of doing it, yes?

T.

[JulesP]

Walking through the park this morning I spotted a man and dog up ahead. Both of us popped our dogs on the leads and passed by giving a nice distance and a friendly hello. All dogs also happy trotted along and were let back off once we had passed. :D Wish all encounters were like that!

[Blackdogs]

I still don't understand why people will take shy, anxious or aggressive dogs to off-leash areas, but there's no law against it.

Because shy dogs need exercise too, and dogs should still be under effective control, according to the law, even if it's an off-leash area.

There are lots of ways to exercise shy dogs, and if they are miserable being around other dogs then it's not doing them any favours to put them in that situation.

My dog is definitely under effective control and I called him as soon as I realised that the other dog wasn't comfortable. But the fact is, it was high tide and that dog was having to deal with dozens of off-leash dogs in close proximity. When he was on-leash anyway, surely it would make more sense to walk through the on-leash park behind the beach? It wasn't like he was having a run around.

ETA: I had a reactive dog for 9 years. Although I lived right next to this beach, I would take her elsewhere for walks.

Oh? Is there a way to exercise a high energy dog that doesn't involve off-leash exercise? I could jog my dog for an hour and it wouldn't be enough. He needs to run and run fast.

Who says that shy dogs are miserable around other dogs? I don't go to places where I cannot keep a distance between me and other dogs and the reactivity happens when other dogs are impolite and get in my dog's face.

Any dog keeping a distance from dogs at off-leash parks should be respected whether they are on lead or not.

[Blackdogs]

Although I don't let my dog run up to dogs on leash generally (this particular dog was amongst other off-leash dogs who were playing), I don't think being on-leash in an off-leash area is a clear signal that the dog doesn't want to be approached. They might have a poor recall, or they might not want their dog to go swimming. There are a lot of people who will approach us with their on-leash dogs, and ask if their dog can play with mine because their dog plays roughly or gets carried away some times.

So there are lots of reasons why a dog might be on-leash in an off-leash area. And on a very popular dog beach at peak times you would expect those with unsociable dogs to avoid it, particularly where there are options nearby.

Regarding the bolded part, you may be surprised to know that a dog who is on leash and being approached by an off leash dog may have a very strong reaction, compared to the same dogs in a situation where both dogs are off leash. It may be in your dogs' best interest not to let them approach dogs on leash simply to avoid being hurt by an on leash dog overreacting.

I hope if your dog approached an on lead dog and received a negative reaction you would not have been complaining, since it would be your own fault for letting it approach a dog on leash.

I wouldn't be surprised by anything. I owned a reactive dog for 9 years, and I specialise in behaviour modification for reactive and aggressive dogs. I've lived with it, and I've seen a large spectrum of dogs with issues around other dogs and people.

I also know my dog, and I've seen him around a lot of reactive and aggressive dogs. He avoids trouble.

An accident is not anyone's fault, but I think people who take shy or reactive dogs to off-leash dog beaches at peak times when there are on-leash options nearby are lacking in common sense and shouldn't complain when - surprise, surprise - they run into a lot of off-leash dogs playing nicely with each other. It's not nice for their dog or for people who are rightfully using that area as it has been designated.

My dog is the least of their problems, but I think this ill-placed sense of entitlement that some people have needs to be kept in check. In my area there are a range of excellent options to suit every sort of dog. I live right by this beach, but in 9 years I didn't take my reactive dog there because it wasn't fair to other users or to her.

Sorry, but are you saying that I have an ill-placed sense of entitlement when I exercise my reactive dog off leash in an off leash area at a distance from other dogs and expect the other owners to ask if their dogs can interact with mine rather than letting them get in his face?

My dog is highly trained in obedience and avoids other dog if they are too full on. I think the people who have a sense of entitlement in this situation are the ones who allow their dogs to run up to strange dogs without permission or who are unable to recall their dogs on request.

[RiverStar-Aura]

This thread makes me really grateful for my off leash park!

[Aidan3]

Although I don't let my dog run up to dogs on leash generally (this particular dog was amongst other off-leash dogs who were playing), I don't think being on-leash in an off-leash area is a clear signal that the dog doesn't want to be approached. They might have a poor recall, or they might not want their dog to go swimming. There are a lot of people who will approach us with their on-leash dogs, and ask if their dog can play with mine because their dog plays roughly or gets carried away some times.

So there are lots of reasons why a dog might be on-leash in an off-leash area. And on a very popular dog beach at peak times you would expect those with unsociable dogs to avoid it, particularly where there are options nearby.

Regarding the bolded part, you may be surprised to know that a dog who is on leash and being approached by an off leash dog may have a very strong reaction, compared to the same dogs in a situation where both dogs are off leash. It may be in your dogs' best interest not to let them approach dogs on leash simply to avoid being hurt by an on leash dog overreacting.

I hope if your dog approached an on lead dog and received a negative reaction you would not have been complaining, since it would be your own fault for letting it approach a dog on leash.

I wouldn't be surprised by anything. I owned a reactive dog for 9 years, and I specialise in behaviour modification for reactive and aggressive dogs. I've lived with it, and I've seen a large spectrum of dogs with issues around other dogs and people.

I also know my dog, and I've seen him around a lot of reactive and aggressive dogs. He avoids trouble.

An accident is not anyone's fault, but I think people who take shy or reactive dogs to off-leash dog beaches at peak times when there are on-leash options nearby are lacking in common sense and shouldn't complain when - surprise, surprise - they run into a lot of off-leash dogs playing nicely with each other. It's not nice for their dog or for people who are rightfully using that area as it has been designated.

My dog is the least of their problems, but I think this ill-placed sense of entitlement that some people have needs to be kept in check. In my area there are a range of excellent options to suit every sort of dog. I live right by this beach, but in 9 years I didn't take my reactive dog there because it wasn't fair to other users or to her.

Sorry, but are you saying that I have an ill-placed sense of entitlement when I exercise my reactive dog off leash in an off leash area at a distance from other dogs and expect the other owners to ask if their dogs can interact with mine rather than letting them get in his face?

My dog is highly trained in obedience and avoids other dog if they are too full on. I think the people who have a sense of entitlement in this situation are the ones who allow their dogs to run up to strange dogs without permission or who are unable to recall their dogs on request.

No, I just think you're choosing to take offence at what I've written. If you have an off-leash area where you can reasonably expect to do this, then go for it. If you don't, then don't be surprised when you are approached by off-leash dogs.

I owned a reactive, working-line GSD for 9 years and she was well trained and well exercised. We used the former type of area regularly, and never the latter.

Still, we were approached often. And not once did I act surprised, or worse, try to knock someone's block off. Common sense instead of a misplaced sense of entitlement, you see?

ETA: and yes, most reactive and shy dogs are miserable at dog parks. This is why they do their best to try to avoid other dogs, either by reacting or trying to get away when approached. Again, if you have enough room to keep them comfortable, great! If not, don't do it.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Aidan2

[Yonjuro]

It seems common sense to me that if your dog is not highly socialised, then why would you risk going to a off-leash park? This is both in terms of aggressors and the timid. In my experience in off-leash parks, dogs are like kids after being in school all day - they run amok having fun with the relative freedom occasionally there will be a bit of harmless push and shove as kids test each other out. Most dogs are social animals and will run up to other dogs for a sniff and greet, which is totally normal and expected behaviour.

If you have little choice and want to take your on-leash dog to such a place, be prepared to step in between any approaching exuberant dog. Blaming the off-leash owners and off-leash dogs is unreasonable in my opinion unless the un-leashed dog is being aggressive. Having said that, there is no excuse for owners using violence to solve disputes.

I wonder if there was two sides to the story reported? I wonder if the off-leash dogs were displaying more than happy attention to the leashed dog? I wonder if the off-leash owner reacted badly and aggressively when told to keep his dogs under control and I wonder if the leashed dog owner reacted as though he and his child were being attacked and lashed out? Again, violence is totally unacceptable in these type of disputes.

[mita]

It seems common sense to me that if your dog is not highly socialised, then why would you risk going to a off-leash park? This is both in terms of aggressors and the timid. In my experience in off-leash parks, dogs are like kids after being in school all day - they run amok having fun with the relative freedom occasionally there will be a bit of harmless push and shove as kids test each other out. Most dogs are social animals and will run up to other dogs for a sniff and greet, which is totally normal and expected behaviour.

If you have little choice and want to take your on-leash dog to such a place, be prepared to step in between any approaching exuberant dog. Blaming the off-leash owners and off-leash dogs is unreasonable in my opinion unless the un-leashed dog is being aggressive. Having said that, there is no excuse for owners using violence to solve disputes.

Very well said.

[Diva]

Except, as I said earlier, this won't be a formal off leash park.

It will be one of the multi use ovals common here - and have everything from off leash dogs playing, on leash dogs walking across, kids and adults playing ball, runners doing laps, people flying model airplanes.... It is not the same as a formal off leash park, we have those too and I agree, different expectations. But on the multi use ovals, people who have their dogs off lead can have no expectation other users are happy to be approached by their dogs. It is not first and foremost an off lead area, just a multi use area where off leash is permitted, under control.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Diva

[Wobbly]

This thread makes me really grateful for my off leash park!

Me too! Well mine's not really a park, it's an old quarry where all the untrustworthy dogs go, there's not many of us and we know each other's cars, and there's only 1 highly visible entrance. Wow I am blessed.

Violence like that - leash rage, road rage etc... Always strikes me as the human equivalent of canine fear aggression - loss of rational control due to a maladaptive panic response.