Switching From A Food Reward To A Tug/ball

[suziwong66]

For heeling, people think it's a walking exercise - it means stick to my left leg no matter what the handler is doing.

BINGO - i've been a member of a training club for nearly two years and NOT ONE TRAINER has ever told me just exactly what heel meant. I assumed it meant 'walk'...and i wanted my dog to be at my side no matter what i did and built in a verbal command of 'close' and a non-verbal cue of slapping my right hip to achieve this. If someone at training had ever bothered to explain what 'heel' was supposed to be and how to achieve that i would have never have thought to build 'close' into my training repertoire. So now i have 'heel' as a walk and 'close' as move close to my side.

[corvus]

If "heel" means stick to left leg no matter what, you don't need two cues. You just need "heel" to call them into position and they should stay there until you give them another cue whether you're moving or not. In fact, part of "heel" is that they should sit automatically when you are not moving unless you've told them to do something else. It's a deceptively complex behaviour. The more detailed you are in your criteria, the more consistent the behaviour you get.

I do a lot of trick training with my dogs and use food lures. Sometimes Kivi in particular gets fixated on the food and stops paying attention to other directions I'm giving him. This is exactly why he also knows a hand target, so I can put the food away and still tell him where I want him. Often just putting it behind my back is enough to snap him out of it.

[dragonwoman]

I'm wanting to wean Booker off food rewards at obedience.

He becomes very focused on my hand and/or treats. I've started cutting back treats with the basic things that he knows well but sometimes he won't drop unless I have a treat in my hand already and it becomes a stand off (but other times he does it fine...)

I'd like the reward to be a quick tug of a toy or something at the end of a set of instructions if that makes sense (not reward each time he sits/stays/drops/etc.)

Should I buy a new tug that I only bring out for training? And start with this at home?

I'm very new to this whole world of obedience and would love some suggestions.

He is a really smart boy and I'd love to compete with him one day - we just have a lot of work to do.

Why take away what he values? Just fade the rewards, expect more for less, just part of training/preparing the dog for competition, you would have to do the same with toys too...............remember your tone of voice and your body language you will always have with you so use them in conjunction with the rewards, in the ring they are all you have!! But that is a way off....................all things gradually :-)

[Lisey]

Thanks everyone :D

I've definitly decreased the frequency of the food from when we first started.

It's really hard when I'm told different things by different people One trainer has made me feel bad about using food at all hence why I started to think about swapping.

Is anyone here from Brisbane? Where do you take your dogs for obedience training?

[huski]

Hey Lisey, re footwork and the dog's understanding of heel position, this video may give you an idea of how it can look :)

[Lisey]

Thanks huski!! :)

[ness]

This is an interesting video on reward placement that I came across just now -

[Nekhbet]

BINGO - i've been a member of a training club for nearly two years and NOT ONE TRAINER has ever told me just exactly what heel meant. I assumed it meant 'walk'...and i wanted my dog to be at my side no matter what i did and built in a verbal command of 'close' and a non-verbal cue of slapping my right hip to achieve this. If someone at training had ever bothered to explain what 'heel' was supposed to be and how to achieve that i would have never have thought to build 'close' into my training repertoire. So now i have 'heel' as a walk and 'close' as move close to my side.

It's because most people do not know what it is themselves. Many trainers think it's a walking exercise as well.

There are different types of heels, not all heels are competition heels. Patrol dogs for example need to remain at your side but not having constant eye to eye focus with the handler is acceptable as long as the dog is still paying attention .

[Red Fox]

I think your problem may be understanding reward schedules and how dogs learn. This has nothing to do with whether you use toys or food, or even much to do with reward placement, and a lot to do with understanding the basic concepts of teaching and training.

This book would be helpful for you: http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=dtb500

[Lisey]

I think your problem may be understanding reward schedules and how dogs learn. This has nothing to do with whether you use toys or food, or even much to do with reward placement, and a lot to do with understanding the basic concepts of teaching and training.

This book would be helpful for you: http://www.dogwise.com/ItemDetails.cfm?ID=dtb500

Thanks Ridgiemal!!

[Nekhbet]

Michael Ellis and Ivan Balabanov are vids worth looking up if you want tight performance and quick results. Remember you need to reward with the end picture in mind, if you start close to the end parameters you want you will get there faster. Remember rewards increase a behavior being expressed - keep rewarding for what you don't want and it will not go away. If you always reward for focus you won't end up one of those people frantically repeating 'WATCH... WATCH... WATCH..." to just get a basic glance. If you only reward when the dog is staring at your face what behavior do you think will keep happening? A dog that stares at you constantly as part of it's training regime no matter what you do.