The Saddest Thing About Purebred Dog Lovers

[inez]

Considering this is a HUGE and very active forum with

Total Members

31,477

Let alone the number of people who are members of their respective ANKC state registeries, they would have to be one of the most divisive groups with a common bond in this country surely.

The apathy in voting let alone doing anything to protect themselves and their dogs is apalling.

believe it or not it only takes one or two thousand agitators to get politicians shaking in their boots and running to appease the angry votes, the greens were a minitory group and look how they grown and achieved.

Peta is a pretty manic and believe it or not minority vastly outnumbered by all of us who love and treasure our dogs, yet they have been allowed to take over and influence governement to every dog owners detriment let alone anyone who breeds being at risk.

unfortunately the dog fraternity is so divided by so many issues they cant even think of working together.

I think it would be the only group willing to stand by and see thousands of innocents risk prosecution as long as it takes out those they despise in the process.

Except of course now its beginning to be noticed all the you beaut laws they didnt object to thinking they would eliminate puppy farmes instead are legalising them and even worse giving councils the go ahead to ignore the fact the vast majority of ANKC breeders do so as a hobby, this class is no longer on the table. AS said somewhere else the councils are saying if you breed even just one pup you must register and be recognised as a commercial breeding and boarding facility which then means you either put in the "commercial kennels" or not allowed to breed?

How was that not spotted comming and something done to shut that legislative mistake before the horse bolted?

I was talking to a chap who works with Animal Welfare about the lady in liverpool who has had to give up breeding (and she has produced some legends in the past) no more for the future though. He said its happening with many councils now doing it and many affected, instead of rehoming themselves are surrendering what they are no longer allowed to keep.

Edited June 3, 2013 by inez

[Bjelkier]

So these new laws have actually been put in place have they?

[Jed]

PETA made it obvious since 1989 (and maybe before that) that their intention was to prevent people having pets. The fastest way to do that was to get breeders out of the way.

However, if anyone said that, they were dismissed as "paranoid" by pet owners and breeders alike. I have been warning about this for years, made no difference. Most breeders over 50 know the hobby is going down the gurgler. Unfortunately, the canine councils don't recognize this or don't care. Qld is a bit more active, as they nearly foundered when AWL wanted to enact a law to desex all dogs. Fortunately, the membership rose up and objected.

Lots of breeders do not believe what is happening. When someone is nabbed by the RSPCA, it "must be their fault", when people are prevented from breeding by council by laws they "must have been doing it wrong anyhow to come to councl notice">

And they are happy for everyone to be nabbed and prevented from breeding - except themselves. There was someone who wouldn't sign a petition put out by DogsNSW, because they thought DogsNSW did not have correct laws to prevent registered breeders mass breeding.

The registered dog fancy will disappear because no one in it believes that anyone would want to stop it and they are too busy arguing with each other to stand up for the dogs.

Pit bulls and tail docking were the trials for the more draconian laws. Very few who were not involved would stand against the laws. AR won by a country mile, so they were emboldened to continue with their stated aims.

They have tried this in US and 90% of the time the breeders or the AKC cuts them down before they do too much damage.

ps Inez - all those numbers do not use the forum, and the minority on here are dog breeders. Most are pet owners

Edited June 3, 2013 by Jed

[Yonjuro]

Considering our PM, the President of the USA and the Queen of England are all dog owners and lovers I really don't thing PETA has any chance in preventing people from owning pets. Couple that with the economics of shutting down billion dollar industries from Vets to manufacturers of pet accessories and food, I can't see any radical pet prevention legislation being passed.

Regarding the laws for breeding - I have no insight into these issues

[Are You Serious Jo]

No, that's the beauty of it, they don't need to outlaw owning pets, they just chip away with ridiculous laws until there are no breeders left. It's subtle so people don't take you seriously when you say that the overall aim is to stop pets.

[mita]

The Australian Government has a position paper on companion animal welfare. Makes the point that government policy doesn't go along with any animal rights' views that interfere with people responsibly owning companion pets:

Animal welfare, animal liberation and animal rights are not synonymous terms.

Animal liberation and animal rights represent a wide diversity of philosophical views

and personal values.

The Strategy omits value statements that are incompatible

with the responsible use of animals for human purposes, such as companionship,

food, fibre, research and teaching conducted for the benefit of humans and animals

in Australian society.

Unfortunately, it's the State laws which actually affect what happens for companion pets.

And the proposed ones I've seen in Victoria & in New South Wales have very little to do with animal rights.... & not much more with welfare. Those proposed laws are slanted at supporting business models of commercial production of puppies, and at revenue raising by charging licensing fees.

Nor are the proposed laws evidence- based on what is a companion dog and how they are best developed. Where studies show the slant is towards the practices that tend to be found among registered breeders. Practices that are not compatible with a commercial approach.

Edited June 3, 2013 by mita

[corvus]

Who is "they"? I have never met anyone who wants to stop people having pets, and I'm neck deep in the animal welfare industry at the moment. I know people who think zoos are a major welfare issue, and it's unethical to eat meat, and we should do away with purebred animals (although they would never be bothered trying to legislate it), but I've never met anyone who wants to do away with pets (or livestock) period. It's a 6 billion dollar industry in Australia, and increasing. There are a lot of stakeholders involved. Maybe people should check out some places that do have a lot of animal-related legislation, like Sweden. Despite pet ownership being highly regulated in that country, there are still dog breeders there, and I don't think there is another country that is more proactive in improving breeding practices and breeding pedigree dogs that are sound in body and temperament. What is happening in Australia is not unprecedented, and nor is it extreme. In Sweden it took some refinement of guidelines before they got it right. They did actually adjust regulations that turned out to be impractical.

[mita]

It's a 6 billion dollar industry in Australia, and increasing.

Which would explain why the proposed laws in NSW & Victoria are based on supporting a commercial model approach to breeding & raising puppies. And also explain why those State Governments intend to dip into this 'industry' pool via costs of obtaining licences.

Meanwhile, most registered breeders tend to work in a hobby home-style setting which is likelier to produce sounder companion dogs.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Once the hobby breeders walk away there will only be commercial breeders left and the AR people will gradually start dismantling that too. The services based on pets will gradually decrease, there won't be one big wake up call when people go hang on, what's happening this is madness. Boiling frogs and all that.

It's Ingrid Newkirk BTW, she has been vocal about the end of owning pets and PETA are gathering a lot of support, because people just don't believe PETA really want to see the end of animal ownnership. She is on record as saying that if anyone cares to look it up.

[mita]

Yes, the evidence.... not opinion... is on the side of registered breeders tending to produce sounder companion dogs... in the very practices that their home-style hobby allows for.

This model should be being supported by legislation about companion dogs. Rather than forcing registered breeders to fit into the very opposite, a commercial business with all the added costs.

There's more to fear, in this country, from capitalism that's lost its mind about companion dogs.... than Reds Under the Beds stuff associated with Peta.

[Are You Serious Jo]

We already know that hobby breeders produce the best dogs, that isn't in question.

[mita]

Must add... 'Good on you, corvus, for bringing up the thriving profitable 'industry'. Always follow the money trail to factors at work. :)

[KJJ]

broadly related to this topic - a friend shared this link today http://leemakennels.com/blog/dogs-and-politics/where-do-puppies-come-from/ I think it raises some valid points

[Are You Serious Jo]

It's not going to protect hobby breeders. Great for puppy farms though, for now.

[corvus]

Gathering 'a lot of support' from whom? The people who own the 33 million pets in Australia?

[mita]

The people who own the 33 million pets in Australia?

And that's where it's possible to be proactive. Get the information to the consumers.... about companion dogs & how they're best bred and raised to be so. Information that's based on evidence.

CHOICE (the Australian Consumers' Association) took a first step back in 2006 with their advice on how to buy a dog. Gently & rationally, they point people towards registered breeders... & to responsible rescue. Away from a 'farming' style of producing puppies. With a little tweaking to add more explicit evidence .... like socialisation of both puppies & mother dogs, & what constitutes a home-style setting .... this kind of information should be got out to the public.

http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/household/backyard/pets/buying-a-dog.aspx

Better information will allow pet owners vote with their feet when getting a puppy/dog. And also gather support for criticism of any proposed laws that could reduce the best sources for getting sound companion dogs.

Edited June 3, 2013 by mita

[inez]

Considering our PM, the President of the USA and the Queen of England are all dog owners and lovers I really don't thing PETA has any chance in preventing people from owning pets. Couple that with the economics of shutting down billion dollar industries from Vets to manufacturers of pet accessories and food, I can't see any radical pet prevention legislation being passed.

Regarding the laws for breeding - I have no insight into these issues

Dream on.

My sister has two purebred undesexed bitches. Her vet asked her every time she took them for their vaccinations and checkup when would she like them booked in for desexing.

In the end she lost it and asked the idiot. if you desex every female pup that comes here where on earth do you think your next clients pups are going to come from??

Take a long quiet look next time you are at a vets...ANY VETS.

Everyone of them are activly encouraging every pup owner to get the 'job' done. Even pure bred main registered pups and you just try and find a mainregister pup of any sex available for sale.

Considering not that long ago on average there were 2,500 to 3,000 maltese pups a year registered last I heard there were 200 for 2012.

considering there is a small white fluffy on every second street corner to be seen they are one of the most popular breeds to be seen. obviously 90percent of them cant have come from a registered breeder thats for sure.

[Bjelkier]

Considering our PM, the President of the USA and the Queen of England are all dog owners and lovers I really don't thing PETA has any chance in preventing people from owning pets. Couple that with the economics of shutting down billion dollar industries from Vets to manufacturers of pet accessories and food, I can't see any radical pet prevention legislation being passed.

Regarding the laws for breeding - I have no insight into these issues

Dream on.

My sister has two purebred undesexed bitches. Her vet asked her every time she took them for their vaccinations and checkup when would she like them booked in for desexing.

In the end she lost it and asked the idiot. if you desex every female pup that comes here where on earth do you think your next clients pups are going to come from??

Take a long quiet look next time you are at a vets...ANY VETS.

Everyone of them are activly encouraging every pup owner to get the 'job' done. Even pure bred main registered pups and you just try and find a mainregister pup of any sex available for sale.

Considering not that long ago on average there were 2,500 to 3,000 maltese pups a year registered last I heard there were 200 for 2012.

considering there is a small white fluffy on every second street corner to be seen they are one of the most popular breeds to be seen. obviously 90percent of them cant have come from a registered breeder thats for sure.

I'm calling bulls**t on this.

Not once has my vet asked me when I'm getting my dogs desexed. He and the staff have never been anything but supportive and helpful for me as a breeder. In fact they have gone so far as to send me emails when eye clinics are happening and give breeder discounts. They have also recommended a couple of puppy buyers to me.

And btw I have never had an issue buying a main registered puppy from anyone. I also sold main reg puppy to a new exhibitor and have intentions on selling another to a new exhibitor from my next litter too.

Not everyone is the difficult, purebred hating, newbie stopping person you seem to think they are

Edited June 3, 2013 by Bjelkier

[inez]

Considering our PM, the President of the USA and the Queen of England are all dog owners and lovers I really don't thing PETA has any chance in preventing people from owning pets. Couple that with the economics of shutting down billion dollar industries from Vets to manufacturers of pet accessories and food, I can't see any radical pet prevention legislation being passed.

Regarding the laws for breeding - I have no insight into these issues

Dream on.

My sister has two purebred undesexed bitches. Her vet asked her every time she took them for their vaccinations and checkup when would she like them booked in for desexing.

In the end she lost it and asked the idiot. if you desex every female pup that comes here where on earth do you think your next clients pups are going to come from??

Take a long quiet look next time you are at a vets...ANY VETS.

Everyone of them are activly encouraging every pup owner to get the 'job' done. Even pure bred main registered pups and you just try and find a mainregister pup of any sex available for sale.

Considering not that long ago on average there were 2,500 to 3,000 maltese pups a year registered last I heard there were 200 for 2012.

considering there is a small white fluffy on every second street corner to be seen they are one of the most popular breeds to be seen. obviously 90percent of them cant have come from a registered breeder thats for sure.

I'm calling bulls**t on this.

Not once has my vet asked me when I'm getting my dogs desexed. He and the staff have never been anything but supportive and helpful for me as a breeder. In fact they have gone so far as to send me emails when eye clinics are happening and give breeder discounts. They have also recommended a couple of puppy buyers to me.

And btw I have never had an issue buying a main registered puppy from anyone. I also sold main reg puppy to a new exhibitor and have intentions on selling another to a new exhibitor from my next litter too.

Not everyone is the difficult, purebred hating, newbie stopping person you seem to think they are

congratulations, my sister needs to change vets.

although have a read of the puppies for sale on dogzonline and count how many specifically state only limit register pups available and how many have any on main register.

I have met many who freely boast they never will and never have sold a puppy on main register.

There is one lady I met who freely sells her puppies on main register, what the buyer doesnt know is they have already been desexed before 8 weeks.

[Bjelkier]

That's great, that's one lady and yep, that is dodgy. I've met breeders who will sell any old thing, regardless of the quality or in some cases lack of, on main reg. Is that better?

You're making broad sweeping generalisations which simply are not always the case and quite frankly I think the thing that is doing the purebred world more damage is the people screaming "the sky is falling" whenever there is the smallest change in how we have to do things. Honestly it makes us look insane....

Maybe if we stopped ranting like crazy people and worked through our problems logically we would get further.

Just saying.....

Edited June 3, 2013 by Bjelkier