Koolie Bitch - Sight Driven ...

[persephone]

Ok.... yes, I hunt feral cats/foxes when they are around.

My Hamlet was such a good tracker because of the Cocker Spaniel mum I guess - he would quarter , and follow scent for quite long distances ..then would tree/bail up whatever he found.

Think I was spoiled for all those years with my gorgeous boy ..and we knew each other so well ....

Young Possum will happily and seriously bail up /flush cats IF SHE SEES THEM ..but has almost NO idea of using her nose - never has

I am not into really formal training ... but I would love to get her to use her nose ..this evening we walked around and around for over a half hour ..I kept seeing the cats' eyes in the torch ..but she had no idea ...most of the time she was very nicely walking behind me ..would run ahead at my signal ..but kept looking at me - nose up in the air ..and not seeking anything in particular ..

Can someone give me some simple tips to start her ? Would food trails help, or sorry

using perhaps a cat tail as a drag ..with something terrific at the end of it ?

I am cluelesss , but am badly in need of a helper .

I am missing Hammie picking up dropped items for me as well ! Amazing how much I depended on him for picking up tissues , or bits of paper, or getting my shoes - carrying things from one person to teh other ... *sigh* ......

Poss doesn't live indoors , so she can't do all that .

Edited June 1, 2013 by persephone

[Are You Serious Jo]

It might be really difficult to overcome the eye in a coolie and get them to switch to tracking. The tracking people will obviously be able to talk about training a non traditional breed to track, but you might have more success getting a breed that will track. Would be interesting to see if you can do it though.

[Weasels]

Agree about the tracking people - but do you have mice? Chess really only turned on to using her nose after the first time she caught a mouse. Spends most of her day checking the gutters and snuffling the wood heaps now.

(Since the mice can hide but not be accessible it seems to ramp up the sniffing compared to something that either gets away or err... doesn't )

Edited June 1, 2013 by TheLBD

[persephone]

poss has caught cats before ..her first was at around 12 weeks old!! .. ..so she knows about hunting ..and won't let a cat move once she has it cornered/treed ....

Jo... no acquisition of dogs .. I get what falls my way ;)

Possum's Grandma will use her nose ... then again, that may be more since her sight failed ;)

:D Looks like a challenge!!

[Are You Serious Jo]

I remembered my coolie will use his nose if he can't see, such as if he thinks there is a mouse or rat around. I'd be trying to get some really strong male cat scent so it really can't be ignored as a cue to sniff. I have no idea about the tracking training specifics, they might have some nifty tricks but I'd take the bladder of a male next time you get one and store it for training.

[persephone]

but I'd take the bladder of a male next time you get one and store it for training.

Hmmm. am I quite that keen ?????

[Are You Serious Jo]

Well you could always take a tail instead :laugh:

[persephone]

Well you could always take a tail instead :laugh:

*nods*

[*kirty*]

I taught my blind pup 'find it' which was her cue to start sniffing. For a blind dog she was very keen to use her ears instead of her nose! I would drop a few treats in the grass and say 'find it' while tapping the ground near the treats. She quickly learnt what it meant and if I kept saying 'find it' she knew there was more to find. I'd perhaps try teaching her this game and maybe add in the cat tail once she knows the cue - so put a jackpot reward with the tail. Then you can try dragging the tail along the ground to make a trail, with treats along the trail, and then have a jackpot at the end with the tail.

[persephone]

kirty - that sounds fun :)

She is very responsive /keen to please ..and probably in the right hands could learn LOTS ;)

She VERY quickly got the gist of "show me" ..when she had an especially delicious bone/treat of which she was protective ..now it's thrust at me with much tail wagging and willingness ..then she lies down and waits for me to give it back :)

Today, we will try new games :D

[skip]

While I was looking at getting a kelpie I met a lady who had a tracking tittle on her kelpie at a really young age ( something like 8 months?). The dog was a Callicoma kelpie, very good.

So herding breeds can do tracking :)

Good luck with it.

[DeltaCharlie]

Looking at getting into tracking with our working borders for something different to do. We have been advised of 2 different methods (haven't tried either yet though nor do we know the finer details of it all yet).

- Food driven dogs: Walk a track abot 50m long dropping kibble every step of the way. At the end, a jackpot meal (bone/carcuss, cat food, raw meat etc). After a few sessions you start dropping the food every couple of steps etc. Apparently it doesn't take them long to make the connection that there is a smell in between that they need to follow (perhaps you could drag a cat tail at the same time?) Then you start adding slight turns (45 degree or less) so they have to pay attention to the scent to find the jackpot.

- Toy driven dogs: Someone walks a track about 100m dragging the toy on the ground. Bring dog out, have person wave toy around then lie it in long grass (or somehow not visible to dog from start) When they have moved away dog goes to toy. Once again, only takes a few days for them to start to notice the scent in between. I know less about this method though, as the dog I was mainly interested in is very food driven and doesn't like toys :)

Scent is a dog's strongest sense, so it apparently doesn't take them too long to start noticing tracks laid on the ground. If you are incorporating the smell of cats and/or foxes then that should make it easier for her to make the connection.

[Nekhbet]

If you use the food method first you need to associate the command with the action. Drag your feet in a 1.5m wide circle, scuff it good and you need to use quite tasty food like meat, kabana etc. Break it into tiny pieces the dog cannot see at all and scuff it into the grass. Jump out of now fresh scent pad. Walk dog up to scent pad and encourage to drop it's head, while the dog is in the scent pad say the command (search, find it, such, etc) and praise ONLY when you hear active sniffing. When the dog moves out of the scent pad, lifts its head or you do not hear heavy sniffing say nothing at all the dog will get it quick smart and be rewarded quickly for keeping a deep nose.

Then move scent pad into short track (eg 2m)

decrease scent pad

small scent pad -> longer track

jackpot food at the completion of all tracks but make sure it's hidden so the dog cannot rely on sight to find the end of the track

food along the whole way not too far apart (about a footstep apart) and when you finish your track jump out of it or your dog will follow past and you may correct it for something you see as a mistake but is not.

you do all tracks and scent pads scuffing your feet not footsteps while the dog is learning. I know a lot of people do footstep tracking but frankly I dont have any issues with any dogs trained like this falling off tracks, veering with strong cross winds, double backing or losing a scent. The dogs also never lift their heads because it's not rewarding to do so.

I dont like kibble because the dog has to pick it up and chew it, even small ones. It's distracting and frankly not that rewarding. Make sure the dog is hungry, and fresh treats are more rewarding in tiny pieces because of their oil content.

If you can grab some feral cat wee or a dead one to drag with you too that can help her associate track = cat. Not just tracking for man but cat and reward her catching a cat skin or something she likes as well.

I have a dog at my school that does tracking through prey drive only, totally ignores food, we started with scentwork first with his toys under flower pots to teach a search command then worked backwards from there. He's now starting hard surface soon and we're thinking of taking him out into the bush for man searches while the weather is cool.

Trick is always about rewarding at the right time and helping the dog in the learning phase. Had a little cav x poodle doing car searches, 100% success rate in a few sessions on food rewards. Great little dog could slip in under the wheel arches and bodywork no problems lol

Edited June 2, 2013 by Nekhbet

[Jigsaw]

Koolies are good trackers, and are used in the armed forces for bomb detection. As Nekhbet has described starting with small tracks and associating the track and something interesting is a good way to start. If the dog is interested in toys only, and not food, you can scrape the toy along the track frequently as well while you walk it, leaving the toy at the end of the track (as long as they can't see it when they set out).

[persephone]

Oh ..Ok :)... some more to try ! I shall let you know .

Thanks a lot!!

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

for something more basic, but to encourage nose work...

put something your dog likes - under an old towel (or other cover you don't mind getting chewed), and encourage her to "find it".

Start off with the dog on lead, in a closed room, inside, and right next to the towel - put the food under when she's looking...

when she's good at that game,

put the food under when she's not looking

when she's got that, put the food under when she's in a different room and/or - have more than one towel, and put the food under different ones.

then do what nekhbet said.

Keep the dog on lead (if that wasn't obvious - cos that's what they do in tracking competition), so you have control over where she goes (especially if she gets distracted).

[RiverStar-Aura]

What I did with Zeus (he's very sight driven too) is that when playing fetch, I'd hide the toy instead of throwing it -- he likes to run off in the direction he thinks I'm going to throw it before I've let the toy go. Then he'd come back looking for it so I'd say the phrase 'where's the duck?' (his fetch toy is usually a duck) or 'where is it?'

Being sight driven he'd actually start looking for it rather than sniff it out and because he's smart, he'd start checking every place I've ever hidden his toys first. It wasn't until I started hiding the toys under blankets, inside pots, in wall crevices, up on tree branches etc that he actually had to start sniffing the toy out. He loves the game -- although the game is called 'Where's the duck?' even if we're not playing with a duck!

I've also used two identical toys at once; Zeus will zone in on one of the two and that will become his favourite of the day and the other is ignored. I love hiding the two of them and watch him sniff out his preferred one and he always manages to find the one he picked out -- the other is sniffed then discarded. My Zeus is a very weird boy!