Can Some Dogs Just Be Mean?

[juice]

Bull Terriers do not "lock on" its a myth, just because they have a higher threshold does not mean their jaws lock, get it right

[tdierikx]

It takes a combination of nature AND nurture to raise a dog (or child for that matter) properly. Littermates of the same initial temperament type will turn out differently depending on how they are raised.

People who decide to take on large powerful breeds need to be mindful of the community's perception of those types of animal, and the onus should be on raising them so that they are not seen as a menace to society. Socialisation and obedience training at the very least needs to be applied.

Unfortunately, there will always be a subsection of society that simply do not understand this basic concept.

T.

[~Anne~]

Temperament is a serious factor that is often overlooked while we blame upbringing.

Yes, some dogs can be born more prone to aggression. It is nature, not nurture at this point. The nurturing can then add or subtract to it.

People can argue you that till they're blue in the face but and all I can say is, look at the pug. A lack of socialisation will not make it aggressive. Abuse will not make it aggressive.

[Sandra777]

However Bull Terriers are known to be bred as fighting dogs, and when they bite they lock on. People who buy them know that, it is not a secret. Some owners choose them for that reason. I have seen many BT owners at obedience classes and their dogs are wonderful, unfortunately they are not all owned by responsible owners. In the case of this attack on that poor man the breeding and the lack of responsibility on the part of the owner became a perfect storm with terrible consequences.

Bull Terriers were never bred as fighting dogs - they were possibly the original designer-puppy - bred for appearance and fashion to fulfill the desire for young men-around-town to have a jaunty flashy looking dog.

The breed originated about the same time as dog shows really took off and are likely the first breed specifically created for the show ring. THe breed originated in with the crossing actual fighting dogs with a couple of other breeds - Pointers & Dalmatians usually get the nod - to create smooth lines and a white coat.

[mixeduppup]

I believe some dogs can be genetically predisposed to aggression and I've met a few like that that belonged to other people but most with experienced handling can be fine. I've only met a handful that didn't respond to proper training and the breeder or owner chose to euth. So yes, I think dogs can be genetically wired to be 'mean' (for want of a better word) but I hardly think that is an excuse when I've seen dogs that were born with the same attitude get put into the right home and managed correctly live lives free of judgment.

Edited May 29, 2013 by mixeduppup

[Salukifan]

What makes a dog dangerous to people is a combination of genetics, socialisation (or lack of it) and environment

Here's what Karen Delise (author of Fatal Dog Attacks) has to say on the issue:

Today's media is filled with sensational headlines of dog attacks. Routinely quoted in these newspaper accounts are dated statistics from the Centers for Disease Control. The last CDC study released documented which breeds of dogs caused the most human fatalities from 1979 through 1998. While the CDC did an admirable job of studying fatal dog attacks, and went to great lengths to point out that irresponsible owners were the cause of most of these incidents, the media and lawmakers continue to use CDC statistics to substantiate claims that certain breeds of dogs are inherently more "vicious" than other breeds.

After reviewing over 431 cases of fatal dog attacks it is apparent there is no single factor that translates in a lethal encounter between a person and a dog(s). A fatal dog attack is always the culmination of past and present events that include: inherited and learned behaviors, genetics, breeding, socialization, function of the dog, physical condition and size of the dog, reproductive status of dog, popularity of breed, individual temperament, environmental stresses, owner responsibility, victim behavior, victim size and physical condition, timing and misfortune.

While many circumstances may contribute to a fatal dog attack, the following three factors appear to play a critical role in the display of

canine aggression towards humans;

Function of the dog - (Includes: dogs acquired for fighting, guarding/protection or image enhancement)

Owner responsibility - (Includes: dogs allowed to roam loose, chained dogs, dogs and/or children left unsupervised, dogs permitted or encouraged to behave

aggressively, animal neglect and/or abuse)

Reproductive status of dog - (Includes: unaltered males dogs, bitches with puppies, children coming between male dog and female dog in estrus)

It is necessary to emphasize that a fatal dog attack is an exceptionally rare event, yet many communities and cities believe that the solution to prevent severe and fatal dog attacks is to label, restrict or ban certain breeds of dogs as potentially dangerous. If the breed of dog was the primary or sole determining factor in a fatal dog attack, it would necessarily stand to reason that since there are literally millions of Rottweilers, Pit Bulls and German Shepherd Dogs in the United States, there would have to be countless more than an approximate 20-25 human fatalities per year. Since only an infinitesimal number of any breed is implicated in a human fatality, it is not only unreasonable to characterize this as a specific breed behavior by which judge an entire population of dogs, it also does little to prevent fatal or severe dog attacks as the real causes and events that contribute to a fatal attack are masked by the issue of breed and not seriously addressed.

From 1965 - 2001, there have been at least 36 different breeds/types of dog that have been involved in a fatal attack in the United States. (This number rises to at least 52 breeds/types when surveying fatal attacks worldwide). We are increasingly becoming a society that has less and less tolerance and understanding of natural canine behaviors. Breed specific behaviors that have been respected and selected for over the centuries are now often viewed as unnatural or dangerous. Dogs have throughout the centuries served as protectors and guardians of our property, possessions and families. Dogs have also been used for thousands of years to track, chase and hunt both large and small animals. These natural and selected-for canine behaviors seem to now eliciting fear, shock and a sense of distrust among many people.

There seems to be an ever growing expectation of a "behaviorally homogenized" dog - "Benji" in the shape of a Rottweiler. Breeds of dogs with greater protection instincts or an elevated prey-drive are often unfairly viewed as "aggressive or dangerous". No breed of dog is inherently vicious, as all breeds of dogs were created and are maintained exclusively to serve and co-exist with humans. [The problem exists not within the breed of dog, but rather within the owners that fail to control, supervise, maintain and properly train the breed of dog they choose to keep.

Any dog, regardless of breed, is only as dangerous as his/her owner allows it to be.

If you have a "mean" dog then it is your responsibility to keep it under complete control. "Accidents happen" simply isn't good enough.

[skelp2]

What makes a dog dangerous to people is a combination of genetics, socialisation (or lack of it) and environment

Here's what Karen Delise (author of Fatal Dog Attacks) has to say on the issue:

Today's media is filled with sensational headlines of dog attacks. Routinely quoted in these newspaper accounts are dated statistics from the Centers for Disease Control. The last CDC study released documented which breeds of dogs caused the most human fatalities from 1979 through 1998. While the CDC did an admirable job of studying fatal dog attacks, and went to great lengths to point out that irresponsible owners were the cause of most of these incidents, the media and lawmakers continue to use CDC statistics to substantiate claims that certain breeds of dogs are inherently more "vicious" than other breeds.

After reviewing over 431 cases of fatal dog attacks it is apparent there is no single factor that translates in a lethal encounter between a person and a dog(s). A fatal dog attack is always the culmination of past and present events that include: inherited and learned behaviors, genetics, breeding, socialization, function of the dog, physical condition and size of the dog, reproductive status of dog, popularity of breed, individual temperament, environmental stresses, owner responsibility, victim behavior, victim size and physical condition, timing and misfortune.

While many circumstances may contribute to a fatal dog attack, the following three factors appear to play a critical role in the display of

canine aggression towards humans;

Function of the dog - (Includes: dogs acquired for fighting, guarding/protection or image enhancement)

Owner responsibility - (Includes: dogs allowed to roam loose, chained dogs, dogs and/or children left unsupervised, dogs permitted or encouraged to behave

aggressively, animal neglect and/or abuse)

Reproductive status of dog - (Includes: unaltered males dogs, bitches with puppies, children coming between male dog and female dog in estrus)

It is necessary to emphasize that a fatal dog attack is an exceptionally rare event, yet many communities and cities believe that the solution to prevent severe and fatal dog attacks is to label, restrict or ban certain breeds of dogs as potentially dangerous. If the breed of dog was the primary or sole determining factor in a fatal dog attack, it would necessarily stand to reason that since there are literally millions of Rottweilers, Pit Bulls and German Shepherd Dogs in the United States, there would have to be countless more than an approximate 20-25 human fatalities per year. Since only an infinitesimal number of any breed is implicated in a human fatality, it is not only unreasonable to characterize this as a specific breed behavior by which judge an entire population of dogs, it also does little to prevent fatal or severe dog attacks as the real causes and events that contribute to a fatal attack are masked by the issue of breed and not seriously addressed.

From 1965 - 2001, there have been at least 36 different breeds/types of dog that have been involved in a fatal attack in the United States. (This number rises to at least 52 breeds/types when surveying fatal attacks worldwide). We are increasingly becoming a society that has less and less tolerance and understanding of natural canine behaviors. Breed specific behaviors that have been respected and selected for over the centuries are now often viewed as unnatural or dangerous. Dogs have throughout the centuries served as protectors and guardians of our property, possessions and families. Dogs have also been used for thousands of years to track, chase and hunt both large and small animals. These natural and selected-for canine behaviors seem to now eliciting fear, shock and a sense of distrust among many people.

There seems to be an ever growing expectation of a "behaviorally homogenized" dog - "Benji" in the shape of a Rottweiler. Breeds of dogs with greater protection instincts or an elevated prey-drive are often unfairly viewed as "aggressive or dangerous". No breed of dog is inherently vicious, as all breeds of dogs were created and are maintained exclusively to serve and co-exist with humans. [The problem exists not within the breed of dog, but rather within the owners that fail to control, supervise, maintain and properly train the breed of dog they choose to keep.

Any dog, regardless of breed, is only as dangerous as his/her owner allows it to be.

If you have a "mean" dog then it is your responsibility to keep it under complete control. "Accidents happen" simply isn't good enough.

An extremely sensible article!

[Loving my Oldies]

There are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

I don't believe that for a second.

Exactly. That is a very naive and potentially dangerous statement, Mantis.

Those that don't believe that there can be some dogs predisposed to aggression do you also believe that breeders can't breed for good temperament, that it's all nurture? Just curious regarding the thought process :)

Strange isn't it.

We all accept that dogs are capable of experiencing most if not all the emotions humans do, so why not anger, meanness, nastiness, etc etc.

[ktn]

I personally think there is no such thing as an mean/evil animal, only people are capable of that. It is distressing that people use dogs as weapons and entertainment like dog fights.

I have an older ex-foster dog that will bite including me when she's upset but it's not meanness. I think she has psychological issues from the past but is at least honest in showing me how she feels. Unlike people, that's why dogs make the best friends!!

[persephone]

Dogs certainly can be born with obvious higher levels of aggression /fearfulness etc .

[OSoSwift]

Yes I believe dogs can be born with a temperment not suited to living with humans or living in our society as it stands. Not sure what I would call it, more likely aggressive than mean.

Having conducted PPS classes over many years there are some puppies that turn up that just blow you away with their reaction to things, you get everything from fear to totally cruise and very occassionally downright aggressive. Humans are mammals we are certainly not all born with the same temperment, so I would not expect a dog to be.

I believe the percentage of dogs born that way is small and most are a result of the environment, most can be managed with a knowledgable owner and correct training, however I believe some should be removed from our society.

Some dogs are just born with their wiring mixed up. Good breeders will only breed together solid temperments and avoid a dog with a squirrelly temperment, for good reason.

[Sandra777]

Yes some dogs are definitely born with a temperament which makes them unsuitable for urban living. Put these dogs in the right hands and environment and they can be amazing, once-in-a-lifetime dogs.

Some dogs are definitely born with a far higher propensity to see biting as the solution to their problems, some see avoidance or placating behaviours as the answer. A lot of this can be managed by training but if push comes to shove a dog which feels threatened or endangered is always going to revert to it's basic nature (temperament).

The vast majority of dogs that live in our suburbs still have the instinct to chase and "attack", but only a very few of them would see humans as the thing they should "attack".

A lot of people who think their little darling doesn't have this instinct are probably wasting a lot of their money on squeaky toys and tug ropes :)

[megan_]

There are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

Great! I should breed my fear aggressive dog then because temperament has nothing to do with genetics!

[Bjelkier]

I do believe some dogs are naturally more agro then others, there for more likely to be a problem.

If you have watched a litter as they grow you will realise they all have very different personalities, some more gentle, others loners and some really are down right nasty. If temperament wasn't such an issue why is everyone so fussy about breeders using good temp dogs?

[frufru]

Exactly - should breeders be ignoring temperament when they select breeding animals - I hope to goodness they don't!!!!!!

[staffydave]

i dont know but last time i checked a american bulldog and a bull terrier are differnt breeds .

[Wobbly]

There are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

Great! I should breed my fear aggressive dog then because temperament has nothing to do with genetics!

Absolutely Megan. Just imagine the learning opportunities an owner, given a dog genetically predisposed to fear aggression is afforded, compared to owners of more stable dogs. They will be forced to research and learn about dog behaviour throughout the dogs life, they'll develop an encyclopaediac knowledge of resources designed to help with reactivity, they will end up developing fantastic relationships with all manner of behaviourists, vets and dog training instructors. Their friends and family may even be given the opportunity to acquire new and interesting bite wounds, the possibilities are limitless. Why aren't we breeding dogs like that anyway? O wait, puppy mills & BYBs ARE breeding them. :/

The Karen Delise article is very good. My apologies, my earlier comment was very simplistic. I do tend to forget that all dogs are not terrier types, and that in some cases it's not all about prey drive, there are other instincts bred in or out in the various dog types, eg territorial guarding instinct which I always forget about because it's something I never see with my dog. But still, these aggressive behaviours (in dogs without anxiety issues) are instinctive and a dog's instinctive behaviour, though hardwired, is very amenable to being shaped by humans.

The thing about dogs with a low arousal threshhold and high prey drive is that they can be fantastically useful animals and the best of pets, and that's why people breed them. The Ashcroft dogs, imagine if they were owned by say, a weight pull enthusiast. That lower arousal threshhold and prey drive would have been directed onto an item the owner decided was appropriate (ball, tug toy, frisbee whatever)and used as motivation for the dog to pull. All the training would have firmly cemented humans into being part and parcel of the dog's pack drive. Dogs like that are great animals, and can make wonderful pets, but they do require a very dedicated owner, committed to careful socialisation and a lifelong ongoing exercise and training regimen.

Some dogs are I agree wired a bit funny, it's a spectrum - the problems can manifest in varying degrees of severity, and socialisation and training can modify them further.

[BJean]

Aggression is a normal part of dog psyche. Dog aggression, human aggression they are not 'mean' streaks.

If you are in some parts of the world a dog that has no aggression at all will not help you, will not be of any assistance; will be an encumbrance.

Yes DOL is Australia :)

so some can forget that aggression itself is not a defect -

what is a defect is poor nerve

and that is when you have problems in an inherently aggresive dog or an inherently non-aggressive dog.

Edited May 30, 2013 by lilli

[Mummamia]

Yes some dogs are prone to aggression, and while in most cases it can be managed if caught early, I think it is naive to suggest that all aggressive dogs are that way as a result of ill treatment by humans.

Totally agree... 'Every dog deserves to be in the right home with the right owner'.... My dream for them...

[inez]

There were three dogs, and they were American Bulldogs.

Yes I'm sure there are some dogs that are just bad natured due to their genetics, but I think the majority have bad temperaments due to the way they are raised and managed.

I just checked the puppy listings

Affenpinscher Puppies (3)

Afghan Hound Puppies (3)

Airedale Terrier Puppies (2)

Akita Puppies (9)

Akita (Japanese) Puppies (0)

Alaskan Malamute Puppies (8)

American Staffordshire Terrier Puppies (20)

Anatolian Shepherd Dog Puppies (2)

Australian Cattle Dog Puppies (16)

Australian Kelpie Puppies (5)

Australian Shepherd Puppies (16)

Australian Silky Terrier Puppies (5)

Australian Stumpy Tail Cattle Dog Puppies (5)

Australian Terrier Puppies (8)

Azawakh Puppies (0)

Where? do you find an American bulldog? Just to be absolutely sure I phoned there are no such breed in australia

or is it the new term for an even taller APB?