Dog Attack Ashcroft Today

[Chocolatelover]

Channel ten news just said they were Staffordshire terriers. My ears started steaming so I missed what they actually said. Was the owner fined?

I think he is facing court - that is what the news said today.

[GeckoTree]

inez theres dog breeds here that if they start getting BYB'd and into the wrong owners hands would make these bullbreed attacks look like a teddy bears pick nick.

[inez]

inez theres dog breeds here that if they start getting BYB'd and into the wrong owners hands would make these bullbreed attacks look like a teddy bears pick nick.

we both know it dont we.

[sandgrubber]

Do you have Australian stats by chance? or know where we can get them?

Unfortunately, I think the Finnish KC is unique in keeping stats on cause and age of death and making them public. I wish other KC's did this. There is no way to know how representative (or not) the Finnish data are.

One interesting thing in the Finnish data. If you click on the highlighted entry for cause of death you get a tabulation of all test and show results for the dogs listed. Several of the dogs who were pts due to behaviour had bad hip scores (C/C or worse). So pain-related biting, or going for euth because the dog was not suitable for breeding, may be part of the picture.

[Staffyluv]

Do you have Australian stats by chance? or know where we can get them?

Unfortunately, I think the Finnish KC is unique in keeping stats on cause and age of death and making them public. I wish other KC's did this. There is no way to know how representative (or not) the Finnish data are.

One interesting thing in the Finnish data. If you click on the highlighted entry for cause of death you get a tabulation of all test and show results for the dogs listed. Several of the dogs who were pts due to behaviour had bad hip scores (C/C or worse). So pain-related biting, or going for euth because the dog was not suitable for breeding, may be part of the picture.

Did you see my link - it is the stats for all councils across NSW that had reported attacks..

Here is the link for the home page Link

[Santo66]

I think the way to avoid bull bashing is for bull breed people to stop denying there is a problem

The problem is that Bull variants are the dogs involved in the majority of horrific attacks, killing a child, killing other dogs and severe maulings. Whether or not they are Pitbulls, crossbreeds of whatever, they are Bull variants of some description and whilst dogs of this "type" keep featuring in the most severe attacks, they will keep targeting that "type" of dog.

[melzawelza]

What evidence do you have that the majority of severe attacks are caused by bull breeds Santo? The NSW stats don't show that and anecdotally my experience as a Companion Animal Officer investigating such attacks does not back that up either. I couldn't pin my severe dog attacks on one breed or type of dog. There is no majority and the dogs involved are varied in size and original breed function.

[inez]

What evidence do you have that the majority of severe attacks are caused by bull breeds Santo? The NSW stats don't show that and anecdotally my experience as a Companion Animal Officer investigating such attacks does not back that up either. I couldn't pin my severe dog attacks on one breed or type of dog. There is no majority and the dogs involved are varied in size and original breed function.

ha but I bet in 3/4 of cases it pins itself on a very similar kind of owner.

Edited June 4, 2013 by inez

[Santo66]

What evidence do you have that the majority of severe attacks are caused by bull breeds Santo? The NSW stats don't show that and anecdotally my experience as a Companion Animal Officer investigating such attacks does not back that up either. I couldn't pin my severe dog attacks on one breed or type of dog. There is no majority and the dogs involved are varied in size and original breed function.

The 2010/2011 stats from a quick caluculation is 1364 Bull breed attacks, nothing else comes close. Just back track in this section alone and count the reported attacks.......the majority are Bull breed variants of some discription. Is this the denial factor kicking in?

[melzawelza]

What evidence do you have that the majority of severe attacks are caused by bull breeds Santo? The NSW stats don't show that and anecdotally my experience as a Companion Animal Officer investigating such attacks does not back that up either. I couldn't pin my severe dog attacks on one breed or type of dog. There is no majority and the dogs involved are varied in size and original breed function.

The 2010/2011 stats from a quick caluculation is 1364 Bull breed attacks, nothing else comes close. Just back track in this section alone and count the reported attacks.......the majority are Bull breed variants of some discription. Is this the denial factor kicking in?

Do you understand that in NSW we have to report attacks that don't even cause injury, and those are counted on the attack stats you are quoting? The vast majority of attacks I report, of all breeds, have none or very minor injury.

This is an 'in the news' section. The media reports on bull breed attacks at a much higher rate than non bull breed, so I'd expect a lot of the discussions here to be bull breeds. That doesn't mean they're responsible for the majority of severe attacks. I've had absolutely horrific attacks by other breeds that the media have never picked up.

Not denial, real world experience with the actual attacks that are happening every day, not just the ones the media decides to report on.

[melzawelza]

What evidence do you have that the majority of severe attacks are caused by bull breeds Santo? The NSW stats don't show that and anecdotally my experience as a Companion Animal Officer investigating such attacks does not back that up either. I couldn't pin my severe dog attacks on one breed or type of dog. There is no majority and the dogs involved are varied in size and original breed function.

ha but I bet in 3/4 of cases it pins itself on a very similar kind of owner.

Bingo. I couldn't generalize them by breed but I could certainly generalize them by irresponsible owner behavior.

[melzawelza]

Just in case Santo tries to deny that the media ignores severe attacks from other breeds and over-reports attacks by bull breeds:

http://www.aspca.org/fight-animal-cruelty/advocacy-center/animal-laws-about-the-issues/pit-bull-bias-in-the-media.aspx

[Purdie]

inez theres dog breeds here that if they start getting BYB'd and into the wrong owners hands would make these bullbreed attacks look like a teddy bears pick nick.

If ?..My local pet shop have Neopolitan Mastiff crosses .I wonder if they will all end up in the right hands.

[BlackJaq]

It should also not be forgotten that the "popular byb breed of the day" is generally more susceptible to dickhead ownerhip and thus may feature strongly in bite stats.

Nobody can deny that the same thing happens with Golden Retrievers and Labradors and has, in the past, happened with GSDs, Dobes and Rotts. In the US, Huskies are often mentioned in dog attacks news as well as Akitas. This does not necessarily mean that those breeds are actually more aggressive than others, just that the press like to report scary sounding news over boring news.

Most pounds will tell you that they get a comparatively large % of bull breeds in, which is generally a good representation of the dog population in the area. Most of them will not be chipped, not to mention pure bred anything (read: back yard bred and often owned by people who would not be considered responsible dog owners by most) and most of them behave just fine apart from basic lack of training.

People like Santos are what brought us BSL and what stands in the way of abolishing that useless legislation and actually implementing some owner-targeting techniques that will actually work to lower bite stats.

Edited June 4, 2013 by BlackJaq

[Staffyluv]

It should also not be forgotten that the "popular byb breed of the day" is generally more susceptible to dickhead ownerhip and thus may feature strongly in bite stats.

Nobody can deny that the same thing happens with Golden Retrievers and Labradors and has, in the past, happened with GSDs, Dobes and Rotts. In the US, Huskies are often mentioned in dog attacks news as well as Akitas. This does not necessarily mean that those breeds are actually more aggressive than others, just that the press like to report scary sounding news over boring news.

Most pounds will tell you that they get a comparatively large % of bull breeds in, which is generally a good representation of the dog population in the area. Most of them will not be chipped, not to mention pure bred anything (read: back yard bred and often owned by people who would not be considered responsible dog owners by most) and most of them behave just fine apart from basic lack of training.

People like Santos are what brought us BSL and what stands in the way of abolishing that useless legislation and actually implementing some owner-targeting techniques that will actually work to lower bite stats.

So very true - only last week some moron was on a local buy swap sell with a picture of what looked like a very oversized 'blue' amstaff and requesting help to find a blue nosed pit bull...

As for pounds getting so many BYB bull breeds in - I have my own theory on this and I think that so many people see them, think they will be good guard dogs and great with the kids etc because Tommo's best mates uncle had one that was rooly great.

Then they get the pup home, it is all cute and they laugh and giggle when it pulls little Mary's clothes but when said pup is about 9 months old (often less), it has more than doubled in size, has had NO training, digging the yard up, chewing everything it gets its mouth around and is now pulling little Mary over - it is time to get rid of it and try again.

There is an endless market for free or cheap BYB bull breeds out there. Lots can't or refuse to pay what purebred dog breeders are asking for, so when the neighbours dog has a litter and they get $500 a pup for them - there are those that just see the $$ signs and I can get that if I get one of the pups and breed it later.

So many people don't even think to research their breed of choice before buying it and when they get it, it is nothing like Tommo's best mates uncles dog (who just happens to be a really nice purebred and has a sound temperament etc)..

It is so sad that there is so little education regarding the ownership of pets (all pets) but especially the pets that I love and adore, the bull breeds.. They really don't suit so many lifestyles.

[BlackJaq]

Totally agree. The number of people buying a pup without so much as reading a breed description (if they know what breed or breeds are in said pup) is staggering.

My own OH bought a bully x pup off his mate a few years ago. The dog was meant to be a status symbol and OH was 17 at the time. He took the puppy home at four (yes, FOUR) weeks old and brought him back to Mum to nurse a couple of times a week for the next few weeks. Other puppy owners did the same and puppies were encouraged to "fight" at those get-togethers.

OH was told that the males in this "line" are nutty and aggro and would make great guard dogs. In OH's perception, his manhood must have at least doubled when he took this dog home I think. He was expecting some sort of super dog, aggressive and staunch at his command, but docile and obedient when needed... Puppy was fed burger patties from Maccas as first solid food... Around 12 weeks OH and I started to go out and I convinced him to at least get puppy vacced, wormed and such. Puppy was also chipped and council registered (as a concoction of breeds since we have no clue what is actually in it).

Many years later we still have this dog. It has very poor manners with other dogs, easily overreacts and turns violent with them. I do not allow it to interact with any of my dogs unrestrained. He has turned on both OH and me inside the house due to extreme dominance (for example OH tried to send him off the lounge to his bed, dog turned on OH for this) and is no longer allowed inside as I do not feel safe with him inside. He is penned separately on our property and not allowed into town. He is not walked anywhere but our own property and I refuse to hold the leash as he weighs over 30 kg and I know I cannot hold him. He cannot be off leash in an unfenced area. Ever. When he goes to the vet he is muzzled and kept in the car until he can go straight to the examination room. All other animals have to be kept away while he is there.

Personally, if he was my dog I would have him PTS as his life is not all that great, always being confined and not allowed to play with other dogs. He is unpredictable and, in my opinion, dangerous.

OH now admits he is sorry he got him but is very attached to him emotionally and will not part with him except for medical reasons. He loves my pure bred Weimaraner and often says he wishes his dog was more like her. He realizes now that he should have done more research and at the time, he never even thought about getting a certain breed, he just went for what was easily available. Differences between breeds are only now starting to register on his mind. He is realizing that he could have chosen a breed for certain traits rather than just appearance. He realizes that my dog can go anywhere with us, because she is well behaved and easy to control. She is not likely to launch at other people or animals to try and kill them. She can be tethered somewhere for convenience and won't carry on like a pork chop every time a butterfly farts.

Anyway, long story short, he has learnt his lesson and I think this will be his first and last ill thought out, spur-of-the-moment puppy purchase and he is already looking at breeds he would like once his dog passes. If we did not manage his dog as we do I have no doubt he could be dangerous to others and that is solely his "breeder's" fault, as he bred two dogs of known poor temperament and sold puppies to every Tom, Dick and Harry with cash in hand.

My OH is not the only one to buy a puppy like this, tons of people do it every day and no amount of legislation is going to change that unless these people are educated as my OH was in the end.

Edited June 5, 2013 by BlackJaq

[Staffyluv]

Your OH is a classic example of what is buying up all the BYB bully breeds - they honestly have no idea what breeds are in the dog or how they will turn out, let alone how to feed, train and socialise them.

It breaks my heart - having kept them most of my adult life and when we were kids growing up with a few and seeing what has become of them..

I wish we could fine those BYBers for constantly flooding the market with dogs. I wish there was a way to stop BYBing all together and let those in the know, who breed for sound temperament, good health and form do what they do best.

I have a BYB boy here at the moment, we train and socialise all the time. He has come miles since I got him at 6 months old but it is an ongoing thing. So many take them to basic obedience and then stop.

We had 2 six month old stafford pups at obedience last term and they didn't come back this time.

At the end of last term I heard the kid talking about not coming back and I tried to chat about the importance of socialising and training such strong breeds. He said his dad didn't have the time (1 hour on a Sunday morning).

[BlackJaq]

And I can't even begin to describe the shit fights we had over him wanting to breed with that dog. Even after he came to realize that not all dogs are PITAs like that one. He still keeps it entire now. Unbelievable. And he is not a stupid person either. Sometimes I just want to whack him with a clue-by-four

[Santo66]

It should also not be forgotten that the "popular byb breed of the day" is generally more susceptible to dickhead ownerhip and thus may feature strongly in bite stats.

Nobody can deny that the same thing happens with Golden Retrievers and Labradors and has, in the past, happened with GSDs, Dobes and Rotts. In the US, Huskies are often mentioned in dog attacks news as well as Akitas. This does not necessarily mean that those breeds are actually more aggressive than others, just that the press like to report scary sounding news over boring news.

Most pounds will tell you that they get a comparatively large % of bull breeds in, which is generally a good representation of the dog population in the area. Most of them will not be chipped, not to mention pure bred anything (read: back yard bred and often owned by people who would not be considered responsible dog owners by most) and most of them behave just fine apart from basic lack of training.

People like Santos are what brought us BSL and what stands in the way of abolishing that useless legislation and actually implementing some owner-targeting techniques that will actually work to lower bite stats.

When aggression is required in working dogs, why are particular breeds used and not just any breed. Why don't the police use Labradors and Golden Retreivers in apprehension roles when no breed is more aggressive than others, they all have teeth right......so tell us why they don't use particluar breeds when aggression and fighting drive is paramount in the job?

Many years later we still have this dog. It has very poor manners with other dogs, easily overreacts and turns violent with them. I do not allow it to interact with any of my dogs unrestrained. He has turned on both OH and me inside the house due to extreme dominance (for example OH tried to send him off the lounge to his bed, dog turned on OH for this) and is no longer allowed inside as I do not feel safe with him inside. He is penned separately on our property and not allowed into town. He is not walked anywhere but our own property and I refuse to hold the leash as he weighs over 30 kg and I know I cannot hold him. He cannot be off leash in an unfenced area. Ever. When he goes to the vet he is muzzled and kept in the car until he can go straight to the examination room. All other animals have to be kept away while he is there.

The dog's like this because it has a dickhead owner or is it the genetics of the dog? How come the breeders used a Bull breed to produce a dog like this and not a Standard Poodle or Golden Retriever when you previously said breed doesn't mean a dog will be more aggressive than another?

Edited June 5, 2013 by Santo66

[tdierikx]

When aggression is required in working dogs, why are particular breeds used and not just any breed. Why don't the police use Labradors and Golden Retreivers in apprehension roles when no breed is more aggressive than others, they all have teeth right......so tell us why they don't use particluar breeds when aggression and fighting drive is paramount in the job?

I think you are mistaking tenacity and trainability with "aggression"...

The dog's like this because it has a dickhead owner or is it the genetics of the dog? How come the breeders used a Bull breed to produce a dog like this and not a Standard Poodle or Golden Retriever when you previously said breed doesn't mean a dog will be more aggressive than another?

Because bull breeds are the "penis extension" dog to own nowadays. It used to be Rotties, Dobes, GSDs, and the like - now it's "tough looking" bull breeds...

The fact that this problem dog's owners are managing his issues says a lot more about responsible ownership than irresponsible, wouldn't you think?

T.