Dog Attack Ashcroft Today

[staffydave]

Yes but that is not a breed or a generilised bull breed mut problem it is a DOG problem. I own a registerd pure bred staffordshire bull terrier not some mut crossed with god knows how many breeds whch is the common theme in these incidents how do any of these incidents effect the standing or reputation of pedigree dogs.

[inez]

Yes but that is not a breed or a generilised bull breed mut problem it is a DOG problem. I own a registerd pure bred staffordshire bull terrier not some mut crossed with god knows how many breeds whch is the common theme in these incidents how do any of these incidents effect the standing or reputation of pedigree dogs.

OKYYYYYYYYYY good point.

this thread should nver have been even allowed to start let alone continue since the attack was by a so called "breed" that is not even recognised by any Australian ANKC?

I know I didnt even know it existed let alone been here for 18 years according to that website

Edited May 31, 2013 by inez

[Steph M]

this thread should nver have been even allowed to start let alone continue since the attack was by a so called "breed" that is not even recognised by any Australian ANKC?

Not sure why people wouldn't be allowed to discuss an interesting, dog related news story because they're not Pure Bred?

I understand they're PB dog forums but surely...

[Pailin]

Do people really think that there were not attacks like this, in equal, similar or higher number even, in the past?

I have no statistics to go from but it seems to me that the greater media attention as well as access to international news ect is WHY we know of all these attacks rather than that they are increasing. In the past they likely never got the same coverage, there was no internet to spread the news and the attacks likely DID still happen but only the localised community would have been aware of them.

I also have to wonder, if we looked at the actual numbers- How many dogs are owned in Australia, how many of each individual breed, and how many of them actually attack- the percentage would be incredibly low in relation to the sheer number of dogs owned in Australia.

I am not saying that that makes this attack ok, it was horrific, BUT more people are injured by other humans, cars, accidents and such than they are by dogs and we need to keep that in mind and not have knee jerk reactions to what is essentially a rare, horrible event. Yes it was preventable, so are the majority of road deaths, and education is certainly something that should be pushed for.

Nothing in this life is risk free, we can try and minimise the risks as much as possible but just like we have violent criminals in society, we will occasionally witness aggressive dogs that do severe damage. Whether that is through poor temperament and breeding or through the way in which they are raised. Even eradicating all bull breeds will never solve this issue, another breed will simply take it's place.

[Dame Aussie]

Great post Pailin, I agree completely. We should be far more worried about other humans!

[~Anne~]

I'm getting disillusioned with this site, as it seems to have turned into a Bull Breed bashing forum.

Mantis, to be honest, I think you're possibly just a little battle weary and jaded. It's making you more sensitive to things that are being posted. It happens to people who are passionate on certain subjects on here and many of those reader will have felt the same or similar at some point along the way.

Take a rest and re-charge. I mean that in a caring way too in case it doesn't come across that way.

Edited May 31, 2013 by ~Anne~

[gwp4me]

Cool off, staffydave, nobody said small staffies, or your staffy - attacked the jogger. Staffies don't worry me, but they worried the animals locked in an enclosure - belonging to Bateman's Bay High School, a while ago, when two staffies killed some of them, and maimed others ( LLamas and sheep). Around 1999, my desexed 12year old GWP female was attacked at my place/Surfside, by a Pit - Bull Type male dog, her skin around her neck ripped away. After calling for a hose to get his dog off mine, the owner/coward fled the scene with his precious dog. I was left to find a vet on a public holiday, to have my dog stitched up and pay for treatment. The screaming of my dog was so terrifying, that neighbours came running. The ranger noticed that the corner shop owner was playing stupid, and was covering up for the young Creek dog fanatic, who took off, up the mountain, past Pooh Bear Corner, back to the ACT.

If pointers do something wrong, well, then they do wrong, why would I try to detest it? Why do so many people with bull breeds try to deny wrongs?? If your dog is kind to others, that's lovely, you are not under attack.

But you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ears, as they say, you can try.

[raz]

Yes but that is not a breed or a generilised bull breed mut problem it is a DOG problem. I own a registerd pure bred staffordshire bull terrier not some mut crossed with god knows how many breeds whch is the common theme in these incidents how do any of these incidents effect the standing or reputation of pedigree dogs.

OKYYYYYYYYYY good point.

this thread should nver have been even allowed to start let alone continue since the attack was by a so called "breed" that is not even recognised by any Australian ANKC?

I know I didnt even know it existed let alone been here for 18 years according to that website

que? Its a news article in the news subforum that is of interest to news reading dog owners

[mantis]

I'm getting disillusioned with this site, as it seems to have turned into a Bull Breed bashing forum.

Mantis, to be honest, I think you're possibly just a little battle weary and jaded. It's making you more sensitive to things that are being posted. It happens to people who are passionate on certain subjects on here and many of those reader will have felt the same or similar at some point along the way.

Take a rest and re-charge. I mean that in a caring way too in case it doesn't come across that way.

Nope Anne, see the post below your reply to me, it is definitely turning into a Bull Breed bashing, it makes me sick to think this is happening on a dog forum.

[staffydave]

GWP4me " a while ago, when two staffies killed some of them, and maimed others ( LLamas and sheep). Around 1999.". Thats sad but the sheer number of staffs out there currently the number 1 or 2 registered dog depending what source you read means ofcourse they are going to be involved in some unfortunate incidents. Same as any other breed, i still dont understand how a incident involving a crossbred or some other supposed bull breed has anything to do with my pedigree dog. Are you saying he carrys some of the blame for every incident which people describe as a pit bull type dog. ha ha this place is pritty sad sometimes.

[staffydave]

"But you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ears, as they say, you can try" this one takes the cake gonna go give my sow's ear a pat ha ha really.

[mantis]

"But you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ears, as they say, you can try" this one takes the cake gonna go give my sow's ear a pat ha ha really.

I just gave my sows ear a pat, she looked at me like she was asking why I woke her up.

Edited May 31, 2013 by mantis

[KJJ]

"But you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ears, as they say, you can try" this one takes the cake gonna go give my sow's ear a pat ha ha really.

I just gave my sows ear a pat, she looked at me like she was asking why I woke her up.

I'm not sure if my girl is a sows ear or not - but I'm damn sure she would nom one up given the chance :p

[Pailin]

"But you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ears, as they say, you can try" this one takes the cake gonna go give my sow's ear a pat ha ha really.

Sometimes you just need to accept that some people will never be open to changing their opinions.

I have a mixed breed dog of completely unknown origins. She tends to most often be described as a Bull Arab type and I can truly say that she is a silk purse of unimaginable value. She is amazing.

[mantis]

"But you cannot make a silk purse out of a sow's ears, as they say, you can try" this one takes the cake gonna go give my sow's ear a pat ha ha really.

I just gave my sows ear a pat, she looked at me like she was asking why I woke her up.

I'm not sure if my girl is a sows ear or not - but I'm damn sure she would nom one up given the chance :p

Cougar loves sow ears, not as much as chicken frames though. :laugh:

[sandgrubber]

I think the way to avoid bull bashing is for bull breed people to stop denying there is a problem. The cause of death statistics below for the AmStaff are from the Finnish Kennel Club's database.

Nearly 10% euth'd for behavioural reasons, and an additional 10% dying of accidents at a young age, and about 6% dying of neurological problems is not a good look! These are not cross-bred mongrels. They're registered pedigree dogs (including a couple Ch's). You can check their pedigrees, and show results, out on the website. (See http://jalostus.kenn...Lang=en....play around with the various options).

The Am Staff is considerably worse than the Staffy or Bull Terrier in these stats, but these breeds, too, show high mortality from accidents and being pts for bad behaviour.

I agree with the concept of deed not breed, but I do believe a fair amount of behaviour is genetic. ALL breeders of ALL breeds need to breed away from lines that are fraught with behavioural problems. Denial of the relatively high frequency of those lines in bull breeds is simply perpetuating the problem, and holding the entire bull breed group responsible for the outcomes of breeders who don't select for temperament, or who do select for temperament that makes their dogs a menace.

Edited June 3, 2013 by sandgrubber

[Clyde]

Channel ten news just said they were Staffordshire terriers. My ears started steaming so I missed what they actually said. Was the owner fined?

[Staffyluv]

I think the way to avoid bull bashing is for bull breed people to stop denying there is a problem. The cause of death statistics below for the AmStaff are from the Finnish Kennel Club's database.

Nearly 10% euth'd for behavioural reasons, and an additional 10% dying of accidents at a young age, and about 6% dying of neurological problems is not a good look! These are not cross-bred mongrels. They're registered pedigree dogs (including a couple Ch's). You can check their pedigrees, and show results, out on the website. (See http://jalostus.kenn...Lang=en....play around with the various options).

The Am Staff is considerably worse than the Staffy or Bull Terrier in these stats, but these breeds, too, show high mortality from accidents and being pts for bad behaviour.

I agree with the concept of deed not breed, but I do believe a fair amount of behaviour is genetic. ALL breeders of ALL breeds need to breed away from lines that are fraught with behavioural problems. Denial of the relatively high frequency of those lines in bull breeds is simply perpetuating the problem, and holding the entire bull breed group responsible for the outcomes of breeders who don't select for temperament, or who do select for temperament that makes their dogs a menace.

Do you have Australian stats by chance? or know where we can get them?

I have grown up and lived with bull breeds for years - in all that time, being associated (parents, brothers, sisters and my dogs) with more than 10 dogs, we had one that had issues with aggression - he was euthanised at 18 months old after trying training, desexing etc and nothing worked.

I am all for punishing the deed not the breed (and the owners of dogs that do the deed).. Bigger fines and sentences for those who keep offending dogs. Study the dogs to see if it is the way they live and were raised or is there a genetic link that makes some dogs so much more aggressive than others. How will we ever find a solution when we are all so divided over the issue?

This has turned into a bull breed bashing foray.. There are some who take every opportunity to sink the boot in - look another bull breed in the news.

My heart sinks every time a bull breed (pit, staff, amstaff etc) is named and then a week later it is reviewed to a different breed/type. But that doesn't make the news and the damage is already done, the reputation of my beloved breeds sinks a little further.

I am not denying there is a problem and I don't have the answers to fix it. But I do think it is more complex than killing everything that doesn't have ANKC papers.

Not every bull breed dog is dangerous but sadly the ones that are seem to make it into the hands of the morons in society who use them as a extension of their manhood to make them feel better about themselves.

Edited to add link to NSW stats..Link

Edited June 4, 2013 by Staffyluv

[inez]

Not every bull breed dog is dangerous but sadly the ones that are seem to make it into the hands of the morons in society who use them as a extension of their manhood to make them feel better about themselves.

Edited to add link to NSW stats..Link

you are spot on, they shift from breed to breed, look for the savage ones, even deliberately breed for it, if they arent, train them to be savage, those that get out and attack innocents , destroy not only peoples lives, as well their breed's reputation in the process.

Unfortunately they are selecting for dogs much more able to do terrible damage than were available to them in the past.

I suspect the idea behind BSL was to reduce and or eliminate their chance to source such dogs, but that was NEVER going to work. Those who thought that one up, forget the gun laws only punish the honest. The crims have no problem getting whatever they want, when they want.

I was looking up the comments on the various breeds in favour with the type of people you mentioned. Doesnt seem like any of them would cope well with the homelife they would be getting with the "morons in society who use them as a extension of their manhood to make them feel better about themselves"

Werent there comments made along similar lines about the attitude of the owner of the three dogs at the Ashcroft attack?

In that case isnt the owner a woman?

Looking down the list of popular 'breeds' here and overseas .

Notice, what it says about their needs. Little chance of them receiving what they should get with the problem people is there?

Wonder how many bull breed lovers would walk down the street if it contained two or three of the last four named breeds?

AMERICAN BULLDOG

American Bulldogs are working dogs that need to move around and accomplish tasks. Probably not the best apartment dogs, they need daily walks, room to run and lots of fresh air to maintain a healthy mind and body.

Being dominant dogs, American Bulldogs need either an experienced dog handler or a master with a firm hand to remind them who’s in charge. These powerful dogs are often unaware of their own strength, but with proper training and human contact—especially at an early age—they will be just as outgoing with strangers and other dogs as they are with their owners.

A healthy American Bulldog can live as long as 15 years. Generally healthy, they can sometimes develop hip dysplasia.

American PIT BULL TERRIER

(Also known as Pitbull and Pit Bull)

This family dog blends strength, sweetness, and intelligence.

American Pit Bull Terrier Breed

The American Pit Bull Terrier is a companion and family dog breed. Originally bred to "bait" bulls, the breed evolved into all-around farm dogs, and later moved into the house to become "nanny dogs" because they were so gentle around children. Their tenacity, gameness, and courage make them popular competitors in the sports of weight pulling, agility, and obedience competition.

The American Pit Bull Terrier is one of the so-called bully breeds often labeled a pit bull. In fact, "pit bull" isn't a breed, but a term used to describe the American Pit Bull Terrier, the Bull Terrier, the American Staffordshire Terrier, and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier.

Some people say the American Pit Bull Terrier is the same as the American Staffordshire Terrier. Others, just as forcefully, say they're entirely different breeds.

But all experts can agree that the confusion started with a decision by the AKC in the early 1930s to give it a new name, American Staffordshire Terrier, to separate it from its pit-fighting past. The American Pit Bull Terrier has not been recognized by the AKC, while the American Staffordshire Terrier, which is slightly smaller, has been.

The bull breeds are often grossly misunderstood. The qualities that make these dogs tenacious players in obedience and agility games also attract highly unscrupulous people looking for strong competitors for their dog fighting rings. The sorry result is that bull breeds, in particular the APBT, have gained a reputation over recent years for being dangerous.

Nothing could be further from the truth. But rampant misinformation and fear caused by the actions of a minority of dogs kept by criminally negligent people have provoked legislation against the breed in a number of cities and countries around the world.

As the owner of an American Pit Bull Terrier you must be aware that you may be met with anger and hostility by people who are misinformed about your wonderful dog. This is not a breed for everyone, especially those who aren't willing to invest time in training and socialization and can't or won't provide consistent firm guidance.

When raised with the proper training and socialization, the American Pit Bull Terrier makes an excellent companion for children. He is loving and gentle with people and often makes a lousy guard dog because of his tail-wagging eagerness to greet the person at the door.American Pit Bull Terriers are devoted and loyal to their family and will, if necessary, defend them to the death.

BULL TERRIER

Bull Terriers should not be left alone for long periods of time. A neglected Bull Terrier can easily become flustered or depressed. They need lots of one-on-one attention, love, positive feedback and family time.

You should consider an AmStaff only if you have the time, strength and know-how to train and socialize your pet. American Staffordshire Terriers sometimes display protective or competitive instincts around other dogs and animals.

These dogs might not be the best apartment dwellers, though as long as they get plenty of outdoor exercise they’ll be happy. Ideally, a fenced yard suits them best, not to mention daily games of fetch and constructive “tasks.” They should be kept on a leash while on walks and at the park.

. AMERICAN STAFFORDSHIRE TERRIER

Bred to be both swift and strong, American Staffordshire Terriers love to play fetch, go for runs and work. They are very strong for their size: AmStaffs can pull very heavy objects, bite through rubber and wire, and they have a high tolerance for pain and fatigue. Keep them busy and loaded with positive reinforcement, and they’ll maintain an upbeat and steady mood.

CANE CORSO

Only get this breed if you plan to spend a lot of time with them -- they are true family dogs.

If you want a Cane Corso, I suggest bringing them home when you can be on vacation for at least two weeks. I feel if they are trained right they do not need a crate. They are very easy to train -- my dogs have all been broken in two weeks.

This breed needs a lot of exercise and running, but they are also very happy to spend the day on the couch. If you work all day, have a dog walker come in and out or if you have a secure fenced yard, put in a doggy door.

Cane Corsos are fine with cats. My dogs are also great with small children and the elderly. They are very smart and gentle, but having said that, like any breed, if you teach them to be bad or let them go untrained you are in for trouble. Make it very clear what are toys and what are not. Put the toys in a bin and teach them that this is their box of goodies. My dogs know all their toys by name.

DOGO DE ARGENTINO

In countries where the breed is permitted, they require a dominant master. The Dogo Argentino requires early socialisation with other animals and early obedience training is vital. Dogos can be aggressive with other dogs but will not usually provoke the confrontation. The Dogo is not a dog that can be expected to get along well at a dog park with a lot of strange dogs. It is generally not recommended to try to keep a male Dogo in the same household with another male of a large breed. This is asking for trouble. Dogos also often exhibit frustration or displacement aggression as well as food/bone guarding.

FILA BRASILIERO

The Fila Brasileiro also goes by the names Brazilian Mastiff or Brazilian Molosser.

The Fila Brasileiro is a mastiff breed from Brazil. He is a fierce guard dog with a massive head, heavy rectangular body, and brindle or fawn coat. In the show ring he may require the control of two handlers.The Fila is not an appropriate choice for an inexperienced dog owner. While the breed standard for the Fila says that he should be docile and obedient with his family, extremely tolerant with children, and calm and self-assured in new situations, he doesn’t come that way. This dog is large, powerful, intelligent, active, and headstrong. He also has outstanding courage, determination, and bravery. A Fila needs a leader who can develop and manage all of those characteristics by guiding the dog with firmness and consistency but without using force or cruelty.

Early, frequent socialization is essential. Purchase a Fila puppy from a breeder who raises the pups in the home and ensures that they are exposed to many different household sights and sounds, as well as people. Continue socializing your Fila throughout his life by taking him to puppy kindergarten class, on visits with friends and neighbors, and on outings to local shops and businesses. It is the only way he can learn to be discriminating, recognizing what is normal and what is truly a threat. That said, no amount of socialization will make him friendly toward everyone.

NEOPOLITAN MASTIFF

Despite their size and ferocious history, today's Neapolitan Mastiffs are calm and placid in nature. They are better described as a gentle giant than an aggressive fighter. Neapolitans are strong minded and will not respond to harsh treatment. They will learn respect through good training and a stern voice. One US breeder describes their character as such "it's a bit like asking your husband to take out the rubbish...he might do it later." Neapolitans are very easy going and fairly even tempered, but they can also be pretty big sooks. These dogs are large, cumbersome and often clumsy. They have a reputation as efficient guard dogs, but they are better suited to life as a companion. There is not much that will faze them and they need a more serious situation to respond in an aggressive manner. The Neapolitan's success as a guard dog rests mostly on its appearance. The dog will stop and stand its ground with a stare. They also have a deep loud bark, that usually warns off approaching strangers.

Training

Training and discipline are essential in Neapolitan Mastiffs especially when they are young. The first 12 months is the most important time to show the dog who is in charge. They do need a lot of input from the owner to get the required result and disciplining the dog quickly and firmly is the best method. They need consistent contact with people and will bond with the entire family. Giving the dog lots of experience with different situations and stimuli will reduce potential problems.

In the case of the Neo,thanks to the complate lack of responsablity on the part of the owner who wouldnt make sure her dog remained in its home yard, the entire membership of club of which my family are members got a very good introduction into what potential danger an untrained unsupervised neo can become. In the end no one could leave the clubhouse to get to their cars unless the owner came and took him home. Everyone was relieved when they learned he died during desexing.

Edited June 4, 2013 by inez

[inez]

Channel ten news just said they were Staffordshire terriers. My ears started steaming so I missed what they actually said. Was the owner fined?

Your kidding I hope. Some one needs an eye test.

Edited June 4, 2013 by inez