Dog Attack Ashcroft Today

[tdierikx]

Back when I was a kid, there wasn't such an emphasis on staying clean when we played either - a good day's play was judged by how dark the bathwater ran that evening... *grin*

Dogs were considered great playmates by all of us kids, and very rarely did we hear of dogs attacking kids or adults in the streets - yet we would come across many more loose dogs than one does nowadays... go figure?

That Collie Rough was the coolest dog! A few times I'd take her to our front yard and give her a bath and a brush, and her owners (who had no kids of their own) would thank me and tell me how much they appreciated it... not that she always needed a bath, but I wanted to give her one anyways. I was about 10, and the dog was nearly as big as me, but she stood there happily while she had her pampering...

We kids also used to have our own dogs with us at the park where we played - never had fights or bites - and there were often 20 or more kids and a good dozen dogs all playing happily with each other.

Damn! I miss those days!

T.

[minimax]

Bully breeds of some description.. (Not having a go at the writer above, just pulling the statement because that is how Joe Public see it).

Sadly that statement alone shows how little people realise what they are doing to a whole range of dog breeds and types by stuffing 'bully breeds' into one category.

That is everything from French Bulldogs to American Bulldogs and Bull Terriers, Amstaffs to SBTs and Pit bulls all in the same group. They are all very different breeds/types and in each breed/type, you are going to get some dogs that are alike and some that are not..

It isn't about the breed, it can't be that simple. There are so many variables in 'bully breeds'.

Education goes a long way these days.

I agree with an earlier statement that the owners of these dogs need to feel the full force of the law when horrors like this happen.

If the law isn't strong enough, then it needs to change to start making an example of the people that own these dogs and don't protect the public from them..

Edited to add for inez, you need to ggogle French bulldog. They are about the size of a pug..

Oh but intensely savage...

http://www.katietakesapicture.com.au/ // huga

[inez]

Edited to add for inez, you need to ggogle French bulldog. They are about the size of a pug..

sounds great. as well as cute.

none of the dogs pictured in the attack look the least bit small, mabye if small becomes the in fashion the damage might similarly be reduced if nothing else?

[inez]

Back when I was a kid, there wasn't such an emphasis on staying clean when we played either - a good day's play was judged by how dark the bathwater ran that evening... *grin*

Dogs were considered great playmates by all of us kids, and very rarely did we hear of dogs attacking kids or adults in the streets - yet we would come across many more loose dogs than one does nowadays... go figure?

That Collie Rough was the coolest dog! A few times I'd take her to our front yard and give her a bath and a brush, and her owners (who had no kids of their own) would thank me and tell me how much they appreciated it... not that she always needed a bath, but I wanted to give her one anyways. I was about 10, and the dog was nearly as big as me, but she stood there happily while she had her pampering...

We kids also used to have our own dogs with us at the park where we played - never had fights or bites - and there were often 20 or more kids and a good dozen dogs all playing happily with each other.

Damn! I miss those days!

T.

yes, whats gone so wrong.

Although an awful lot died under car tyres too in those days if they didnt get street smart fast.

[inez]

How many cattledog have hit the headlines for bringing some one down in the last 30 years, let alone killed anyone?

How about this attack in Broken Hill: My link

And even the generally reliable ABC like to illustrate a dog attack story with a 'scary breed' stock photo.

In stories about the cattle dog mix attacks and aftermath, they used a GSD photo here: My link

And then a Boxer here: My link

The attack that the thread is originally about was horrific. I hope the injured people recover. I also hope that the owners of the offending dogs are punished. And if I could dream a little, prohibited from owning ANY dogs again.

As Staffyluv said so well:

"Sadly that statement alone shows how little people realise what they are doing to a whole range of dog breeds and types by stuffing 'bully breeds' into one category.

That is everything from French Bulldogs to American Bulldogs and Bull Terriers, Amstaffs to SBTs and Pit bulls all in the same group. They are all very different breeds/types and in each breed/type, you are going to get some dogs that are alike and some that are not..

It isn't about the breed, it can't be that simple. There are so many variables in 'bully breeds'.

Education goes a long way these days.

I agree with an earlier statement that the owners of these dogs need to feel the full force of the law when horrors like this happen.

If the law isn't strong enough, then it needs to change to start making an example of the people that own these dogs and don't protect the public from them.."

Thanks for the links.

wonder if this has ever been implemented? Or would it make any difference anyway?

""The case that we've seen in Broken Hill which has just gone to court is a shocking example about how the system has failed, and it's one of the reasons why we've come up with a report that has 38 recommendations to try to improve the lot of companion animals and try to improve public safety," Dr Cornwell said.

Dr Cornwell says one of the recommendations is that dogs would not have to bite anyone before being declared dangerous.

Taylor's three dogs had not been declared dangerous before the attack in August last year.

Dr Cornwell says a new category that he has proposed could have made a difference in this case.

"We've created a new category of a potentially dangerous dog so rather than councils needing to have a nasty incident occur before they can step in and press charges, if councils or the public feel that there is an animal there which has potential for problems, they can then go in and place additional restrictions on that owner and upon those animals to ensure we have public safety," he said."

[Steve]

Back when I was a kid, there wasn't such an emphasis on staying clean when we played either - a good day's play was judged by how dark the bathwater ran that evening... *grin*

Dogs were considered great playmates by all of us kids, and very rarely did we hear of dogs attacking kids or adults in the streets - yet we would come across many more loose dogs than one does nowadays... go figure?

That Collie Rough was the coolest dog! A few times I'd take her to our front yard and give her a bath and a brush, and her owners (who had no kids of their own) would thank me and tell me how much they appreciated it... not that she always needed a bath, but I wanted to give her one anyways. I was about 10, and the dog was nearly as big as me, but she stood there happily while she had her pampering...

We kids also used to have our own dogs with us at the park where we played - never had fights or bites - and there were often 20 or more kids and a good dozen dogs all playing happily with each other.

Damn! I miss those days!

T.

yes, whats gone so wrong.

Although an awful lot died under car tyres too in those days if they didnt get street smart fast.

But - if dogs didn't behave and or their owners weren't responsible the dogs copped a bullet . People still owned some dogs which were capable of biting and being a bit nasty but they were never given the chance - any sign that they might be a bit nasty ensured the owner made sure the dog never got out and never had the chance to bite or hurt someone or the neighbourhood would take action and the dog would be shot if the owner didn't do it themselves. All of those dogs we used to play with and accept as part of the community were judged safe - as kids we may not have understood how it came about that all of the dogs on the street were safe but behind the scenes our parents and other adults made sure that a growl or body language that wasnt quite right meant teh dog stayed home. Im older than you and I was one of the kids but also one of the parents.

[inez]

Back when I was a kid, there wasn't such an emphasis on staying clean when we played either - a good day's play was judged by how dark the bathwater ran that evening... *grin*

Dogs were considered great playmates by all of us kids, and very rarely did we hear of dogs attacking kids or adults in the streets - yet we would come across many more loose dogs than one does nowadays... go figure?

That Collie Rough was the coolest dog! A few times I'd take her to our front yard and give her a bath and a brush, and her owners (who had no kids of their own) would thank me and tell me how much they appreciated it... not that she always needed a bath, but I wanted to give her one anyways. I was about 10, and the dog was nearly as big as me, but she stood there happily while she had her pampering...

We kids also used to have our own dogs with us at the park where we played - never had fights or bites - and there were often 20 or more kids and a good dozen dogs all playing happily with each other.

Damn! I miss those days!

T.

yes, whats gone so wrong.

Although an awful lot died under car tyres too in those days if they didnt get street smart fast.

But - if dogs didn't behave and or their owners weren't responsible the dogs copped a bullet . People still owned some dogs which were capable of biting and being a bit nasty but they were never given the chance - any sign that they might be a bit nasty ensured the owner made sure the dog never got out and never had the chance to bite or hurt someone or the neighbourhood would take action and the dog would be shot if the owner didn't do it themselves. All of those dogs we used to play with and accept as part of the community were judged safe - as kids we may not have understood how it came about that all of the dogs on the street were safe but behind the scenes our parents and other adults made sure that a growl or body language that wasnt quite right meant teh dog stayed home. Im older than you and I was one of the kids but also one of the parents.

Yes, I forgot that. Any dog that threatened a child was shot, no second chances.

I remember my dad telling a lady who was worried because her dog instead of accepting her new baby as part of its family was trying to attack it. She was told her dog was not normal and her baby was too important to risk. The dog was put down.

Another yes , my aunties fox terrier would bite anyone but her and her family, I grew up petrified of foxies because of him but then he never ever was allowed anywhere outside on the street because of it. he was always "put away"when visitors came as well. He would be raging at the back door at being turfed out of his home.Those beady eyes blamed me and I supposed anyone else who came to visit.

Edited May 29, 2013 by inez

[HugL]

I believe new laws will NOT fix the problem. The current laws need to be enforced so we can find out if they actually work.

Whilst education may be good for a lot of owners, quite a few will never "get it" due to not being aware how they are contributing to the problem. I'm sure most people know someone who started with a lab-type that became uncontrollable, rehomed it and downsized to another family-friendly breed that also became uncontrollable, rehomed it to get an even smaller breed and continue to live with another uncontrollable dog only because it's little and cute.

Training would be another option but, like education, it gets down to who is actually running it. In SA, most councils have a discount on registration if your dog is trained. (Not sure about other states.) All councils I have asked are happy to accept Puppy Preschool certificates as training. This is a joke and should never be used as proof a dog is "trained". Maybe councils should set guidelines about what they want so training can be better provided.

This is a problem that will never go away until everyone is held accountable for their dog's actions.

I have owned and trained GSD's for nearly 20 years and been an obedience instructor for over 13 specialising in difficult and "aggressive" dogs. Until late last year, I had never been bitten. However, I was bitten at a dog show while attempting to take my friend's dog into the ring by an aggressive dog and left the show in an ambulance. After five months, the canine association declared the owners not guilty and let them off without any penalty. These owners have no reason to alter their behaviour or the behaviour of the dog making this another dog attack waiting to happen. We NEED canine associations to step up and actually enforce their own rules instead of being swayed by politics.

Having to continually deal with my own memories and scarring from this attack, I can't even begin to imagine the demons this jogger will be facing. I wish him all the best and pray he has a strong support network to help him through.

[Staffyluv]

Sadly HugL, it is the cost of enforcing the current legislation that seems to inhibit most councils - they just seem happy to take the rego money and let it be (unless a complaint comes in).

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you but we have to start somewhere and I think educating some of the herd and 'hope' it trickles down to some more, is the best we can hope for at the moment.

The councils are only interested if they have to be - when something happens.

In my Utopian dog world:

What I would like to see happen is jailing (not just fining) those who raise dogs that do damage, like those in this particular attack.

Assess the dogs (don't just PTS immediately) - why did they do what they did?

Is it environmental, training (or lack of), diet, breeding (from unstable parentage), pack mentality, fear, aggression or all of the above and more?

We need to know why this happens so that we can educate to prevent it.

Start educating in schools, so the kids take the education home.

We have registration for dogs (council rego) - how could we enforce training? Make basic obedience part of that rego? Fine those that don't attend so the council makes more money to employ more rangers?

Just some examples - I am sure as dog lovers we can come up with plenty more.. But how do you get the powers that be to enforce something when they don't have the funding to do so??

We have a responsibility to the animals we bring into our homes to train them, feed them, vet them and make them good canine citizens - so they don't go attacking every jogger that runs past the front fence.

[Santo66]

The problem is education. Most people with a fear aggressive dog think they have an "Alpha" dog. I come across this all the time, it's ludicrous. People thinking their snarling, slavering dog is tough when the poor thing is screaming in terror. The problem is, as always, ignorance.

Some follow up needs to address the breeders of dogs like this........where did such a dog come from in the first place?

[ruthless]

They were littermates

[sandgrubber]

1369829790[/url]' post='6214094']

They were littermates

Then the breeder deserves a look over. If these are not the first 'ugly' dogs he or she has released to the public, it's time he or she faced some sort of penalty. Some breeds get a bad rap cause some breeders deliberately run bloodlines that are bound for trouble.

[inez]

1369829790[/url]' post='6214094']

They were littermates

Then the breeder deserves a look over. If these are not the first 'ugly' dogs he or she has released to the public, it's time he or she faced some sort of penalty. Some breeds get a bad rap cause some breeders deliberately run bloodlines that are bound for trouble.

Thats the show scene, I know a breeder with two doberman bitches, one fantastic temp the other incredibly nervy and fearful, the one who became the brood bitch was the one that won her Ch fastest. the other desexed to a pet home.

it wasnt the good temp girl who got to pass on her genes.

[~Anne~]

Back when I was a kid, there wasn't such an emphasis on staying clean when we played either - a good day's play was judged by how dark the bathwater ran that evening... *grin*

Dogs were considered great playmates by all of us kids, and very rarely did we hear of dogs attacking kids or adults in the streets - yet we would come across many more loose dogs than one does nowadays... go figure?

That Collie Rough was the coolest dog! A few times I'd take her to our front yard and give her a bath and a brush, and her owners (who had no kids of their own) would thank me and tell me how much they appreciated it... not that she always needed a bath, but I wanted to give her one anyways. I was about 10, and the dog was nearly as big as me, but she stood there happily while she had her pampering...

We kids also used to have our own dogs with us at the park where we played - never had fights or bites - and there were often 20 or more kids and a good dozen dogs all playing happily with each other.

Damn! I miss those days!

T.

yes, whats gone so wrong.

Although an awful lot died under car tyres too in those days if they didnt get street smart fast.

But - if dogs didn't behave and or their owners weren't responsible the dogs copped a bullet . People still owned some dogs which were capable of biting and being a bit nasty but they were never given the chance - any sign that they might be a bit nasty ensured the owner made sure the dog never got out and never had the chance to bite or hurt someone or the neighbourhood would take action and the dog would be shot if the owner didn't do it themselves. All of those dogs we used to play with and accept as part of the community were judged safe - as kids we may not have understood how it came about that all of the dogs on the street were safe but behind the scenes our parents and other adults made sure that a growl or body language that wasnt quite right meant teh dog stayed home. Im older than you and I was one of the kids but also one of the parents.

Maybe it was just our area but the aggressive ones weren't kept at home, we just avoided setting them off. We knew the triggers that made them snap and, like the law of the jungle intended, we heeded the warnings.

As for dog fights, there were plenty. Dogs will be dogs. Of course they had battles.

Things were less refined though. The battles sorted out pack order and territory between the neighbourhood dogs and every now and then one dog challenged another. No one had fences. The fights were unbelievable and I can recall pouring buckets of water on them and putting the hose on them to break them up. Otherwise a good hefty boot did the trick.

Edited May 30, 2013 by ~Anne~

[gwp4me]

There were different breeds of dogs around in the olden days, in this country. Not many people would have felt cool then with a fighting bred pet, bred to fight till death, who can only be taken off it's victim - when hosing with water does not work - with a stick poked up it's bum. Very dainty, indeed! In 1969, everyone loved a Lab, they had the most gorgous lean black Labs in Darwin, took your breath away. A few years later, mum reckons, the lovely Great Danes were everywhere, miss those pure days.

[staffydave]

Yeah cool was the reason i got my killer fighting dog who by the way was just charged at by a lab carrying on like a loony while the owner laughed. You know what he did in response kept on trotting along with a big smile on his face not paying it any notice. he has been bitten severly on his neck requiring vet treatmont and charged numerous times the worst he has ever done back was a single bark. the post above is a joke .

[kelpiecuddles]

I think it's hard to enforce formal training or seminars though for everyone, some great owners would not be able to attend for various reasons. I have two well trained, well adjusted dogs one of which is around, if not over, 25kg. I probably couldn't have attended compulsory training or seminars as my husband is frequently required to work overseas for long periods. Doesn't make me an irresponsible owner. I noted that the Lost Dog's Home has a little online training package that you can do. Once you completed it and passed the little test at the end it entitled you to a discount on your adoption cost. I know not everyone is a fan of the LDH but that seemed like a great move to me

[inez]

Yeah cool was the reason i got my killer fighting dog who by the way was just charged at by a lab carrying on like a loony while the owner laughed. You know what he did in response kept on trotting along with a big smile on his face not paying it any notice. he has been bitten severly on his neck requiring vet treatmont and charged numerous times the worst he has ever done back was a single bark. the post above is a joke .

The trouble is your dog and so many like him do not represent the entire breed unfortunately. Neither do the other bully breeds that would never ever think of committing the atrocities in these news links.

In the wrong hands in the wrong place, with the wrong training whatever, this can be the outcome regardless of breed, although the damage tends to be directly in proportion with the size and weight of the attacker, in relation to the size and weight of the attacked, even more efficient damage when the breed was bred and built for the job.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2156016/Schoolboy-5-scarred-life-face-mauling-attack-Staffordshire-bull-terrier-neighbours-adopted-animal-shelter.html

as for the two in the link below no english staffie ive ever seen looks like them.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/swindon-dog-attack-staffordshire-bull-862558

Ive seen some horrid savage maltese, chihuahua's and foxi's but not even ten of em in a fenzied attack could have done the awful damage the poor jogger in Liverpool suffered.

Edited May 31, 2013 by inez

[mantis]

Yeah cool was the reason i got my killer fighting dog who by the way was just charged at by a lab carrying on like a loony while the owner laughed. You know what he did in response kept on trotting along with a big smile on his face not paying it any notice. he has been bitten severly on his neck requiring vet treatmont and charged numerous times the worst he has ever done back was a single bark. the post above is a joke .

Agree, my Kenny was attacked by a Poodle & two GSD, none of the times did he bite back, just held them down until the owners eventually came & put them on lead, turned him into a FA dog.

I'm getting disillusioned with this site, as it seems to have turned into a Bull Breed bashing forum.

[inez]

Yeah cool was the reason i got my killer fighting dog who by the way was just charged at by a lab carrying on like a loony while the owner laughed. You know what he did in response kept on trotting along with a big smile on his face not paying it any notice. he has been bitten severly on his neck requiring vet treatmont and charged numerous times the worst he has ever done back was a single bark. the post above is a joke .

you have the good dogs.

how to make sure they are the only ones being bred really is the problem surely?

Once upon a time as others have said, agressive dogs were not tolerated, let alone ever get the chance to be bred from, regardless of breed, now they get conselling.

As that link on temprement said. Selection for that is EVERYTHING. counceling and remedial training will only work if the genes were right in the first place. regardless of breed.

Edited May 31, 2013 by inez