What To Do?

[moosmum]

Thanks for all the responses and discussion. Feeling better re the dogs and Isobel. Chatted with another cairn owner and have more of an understanding standing re our Isobel. I mean she is a lovely dog, I think I was annoyed re Alvin the guinea pig, combined with the escaping... (Fence fixed, and gp - gone) As for Hugo, he is good, and is a great dog, no he isn't harvey and it was unfair for me to put that in him in a sense..

Things are good.Thanks guys,

:)

[*kirty*]

I have one dog who I never bonded with. He is 11yo now and has been destructive and hard work his whole life. He is also aloof and just not that into us. If I had my time again, I would have rehomed him many years ago. I believe pets are for life, but we have never bonded and I often wonder if he might have been different in another home? He is loved and cared for, but I don't like him.

[Trisven13]

And this is where I think that people like "us" do some dogs a disservice. "Most" dog owners would rehome a dog in this situation and, sure many do it poorly, BUT they recognise that the dog doesn't suit them and the dog often goes onto a much, much better life. When we are "dog people" we believe that rehoming a dog is only something that bad dog owners do but, when done properly, it is what we do when we TRULY care about a dog IMO. Just for some of us we're so caught up in doing whats perceived to be right we stop thinking about what might be right for the dog.

[eschlachter]

Sometimes talking (typing) out loud to people you trust (or at least, trust to honestly help) makes all the difference.

I understand your conundrum re guinea pigs and dogs- I'm a guinea pig addict from way back- and I have two lovely guineas, Bernard and Manny, and I know my dogs don't appreciate them the same way I do! Just last week, I was distracted while the dogs were in the yard (in the guinea pig cage area) and after 15 minutes alone together the dogs had 'busted through' the guinea pig's living area, into their house, and Bernard had escaped (but was recaptured unharmed shortly afterwards). My dogs are a Kelpie X and an RR who's nearly two, so the 'chase' instinct is there, but the terrier 'search and destroy' not so much. Luckily.

Completely understand your feelings about not bonding. If Bernard had been killed- I would have been furious, but re-homing either the dogs would not have crossed my mind. They were only doing what instinct dictated. I love my fur-babies, but that's because I have bonded with both of them. My sister's beagle on the other hand? I love it because my sister does- but.... hmm, could re-home if my own dog.

The best way to go, imho, is what's best for the dog. It is tempting as humans, to consider ourselves completely indispensable, and irreplaceable, but sometimes we're not really. A better place could be out there for your sweet terrier :)

Best wishes for whatever decision you make, it cannot be easy to be in your shoes right now!

[The Spotted Devil]

And this is where I think that people like "us" do some dogs a disservice. "Most" dog owners would rehome a dog in this situation and, sure many do it poorly, BUT they recognise that the dog doesn't suit them and the dog often goes onto a much, much better life. When we are "dog people" we believe that rehoming a dog is only something that bad dog owners do but, when done properly, it is what we do when we TRULY care about a dog IMO. Just for some of us we're so caught up in doing whats perceived to be right we stop thinking about what might be right for the dog.

I think there's a lot of truth in that :) A different situation but I have a retired breeding Burmese cat and I have no doubt she has a better life with us. She is one of very few so is lavished with attention, has her own daughter to wash for hours on end and runs the house with an iron paw. She is brilliant with the dogs (not so in her breeder's home) - puts puppies and annoying Dalmatians in their place without hesitation but her response is perfectly timed and in keeping with the level of annoyance. She has come out of her shell so much and is supremely confident, incredibly playful and slightly crazy :laugh: I had the opportunity to adopt HER mother as well (so 3 generations!) but I'm glad I didn't because she was a very bossy granny cat and I doubt Lilly would ever have blossomed as she has :)

I certainly had to work hard to develop a bond with my Dally but it has payed off in spades now. I love that he really wants to come training and trialling even when young Em is in season. It took all of 5 min to bond with Miss E. so a very different experience.

[moosmum]

There can be a lot of reasons for a miss match. One not meeting the needs of the other. Most things can be worked on,but sometimes its more realistic to call it a miss match for both. The effort may not be sustainable.It may be causing problems for others.

Or the dog simply be happier else where.

Edited May 26, 2013 by moosmum

[Guest Clover]

Perhaps it is the time in your life where guinea pigs are the appropriate pets and not dogs?

They are showing relatively normal terrier behaviour re the GP's so if you were to consider another dog in the distant future perhaps look at some other breeds.

I too was going to mention maybe if in the future if you go another dog try a non terrier breed. You can't blame a terrier for killing a small critter if it can get to it .

[Wobbly]

I realise you're going to rehome responsibly and yada yada. For the record: in cases where there are manifest problems, dogs not getting on together and owner unable to manage the fights, or illnesses & other family crises, indeed, the only solution is often rehoming.

But that's not whats happening here. The issue here is simply a lack of interest in the animal. You can't expect a dog to take the initiative and pull out all the stops to bond with you. Developing a happy healthy relationship with an animal you bought into your home is entirely your responsibility. I guess if you don't care enough for the animal to try working with it on this, then it probably is best to rehome.

Which brings me to the point that this thread topic, and a large proportion of the comments herein, strongly brings to my mind the image of dogs as disposable consumer commodities. Cute to get a puppy for Christmas, and absolutely fine to pass it off to someone else sometime later due to not enough interest in the animal. I don't agree with this perspective.

Don't get another dog after this if you aren't willing to put the work in.

So, obviously again I'm standing by a very unpopular opinion, flame away.

[moosmum]

I realise you're going to rehome responsibly and yada yada. For the record: in cases where there are manifest problems, dogs not getting on together and owner unable to manage the fights, or illnesses & other family crises, indeed, the only solution is often rehoming.

But that's not whats happening here. The issue here is simply a lack of interest in the animal. You can't expect a dog to take the initiative and pull out all the stops to bond with you. Developing a happy healthy relationship with an animal you bought into your home is entirely your responsibility. I guess if you don't care enough for the animal to try working with it on this, then it probably is best to rehome.

Which brings me to the point that this thread topic, and a large proportion of the comments herein, strongly brings to my mind the image of dogs as disposable consumer commodities. Cute to get a puppy for Christmas, and absolutely fine to pass it off to someone else sometime later due to not enough interest in the animal. I don't agree with this perspective.

Don't get another dog after this if you aren't willing to put the work in.

So, obviously again I'm standing by a very unpopular opinion, flame away.

Its not an unpopular opinion. I think most of us feel that way,but with the best of intentions mistakes can still be made.

I just don't think its helpful for the dogs if their owners are made to feel they are "stuck" with the situation. Far more likely a dog will be quietly disposed, dumped or homed to the 1st person who who comes along if re-homing can't even be discussed without judgement. ( not saying in this case )

Edited May 27, 2013 by moosmum

[Wobbly]

True that Moosmum. Good point.

But that lack of judgement can go too far. In this thread it seems that the attitude of "Dog is not meeting my expectations, so I am getting rid of it" ethos is completely acceptable. And over the course of 5 pages that attitude has gained a lot of traction, and a lot of support. So now, for people who may have been on the fence about the issue, or maybe hadn't given it that much thought, the idea that "Dog is not meeting expectations? Then get rid of it" appears to be the majority view, and that's going to influence people's view on the matter. And so it has.

So, now this is apparently the accepted view, it's being expanded upon. So much so, that post #67 says "if you get a new dog....". No offense to you Clover, just picking your post because it's on this page, when measured alongside the other opinions expressed here, it would seem to be totally acceptable thing to say, because the party line has become "if a dog doesn't meet your expectations, rehome it (and get a new one later maybe)".

And to me that's simply not acceptable view point to be expounding, supporting or accepting.

But yes Katetk, rehome the dog if you have no interest in working with it to build a good relationship (your responsibility to do this btw, it's a fundamental aspect of dog ownership), if you can't be bothered to do it, the dog is definitely going to have a better life elsewhere with someone who will. In future, don't get a dog if you aren't prepared to deal with the fact it may not meet your expectations, because the simple fact is that dogs have individual personalities, and if you aren't prepared to accept that, don't get another one.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Wobbly

[persephone]

Hmmm

I believe not every person suits every dog and vice versa.

Believing this, and also having seen many dogs enjoy a more enriched and happier life with other owners, rehoming due to 'irreconcilable differences', can be the solution.

Why should a dog or person be anxious or tentative or resentful? If an owner has thought long and hard, received advice from experienced / professional people and then makes that decision I do not see it as doing the wrong thing by that dog.

[tdierikx]

I'm reading between the lines here and seeing that maybe the dog issue is causing friction in the human relationship - or is a catalyst for same...

T.

[kayla1]

Thanks for all the responses and discussion. Feeling better re the dogs and Isobel. Chatted with another cairn owner and have more of an understanding standing re our Isobel. I mean she is a lovely dog, I think I was annoyed re Alvin the guinea pig, combined with the escaping... (Fence fixed, and gp - gone) As for Hugo, he is good, and is a great dog, no he isn't harvey and it was unfair for me to put that in him in a sense..

Things are good.Thanks guys,

It sounds like you are thinking of rehoming Isobel only and keeping Hugo, but you mentioned earlier that OH isn't rapt in Hugo either and wants both dogs gone. If so, is that the best situation for Hugo?

[Staff'n'Toller]

True that Moosmum. Good point.

But that lack of judgement can go too far. In this thread it seems that the attitude of "Dog is not meeting my expectations, so I am getting rid of it" ethos is completely acceptable. And over the course of 5 pages that attitude has gained a lot of traction, and a lot of support. So now, for people who may have been on the fence about the issue, or maybe hadn't given it that much thought, the idea that "Dog is not meeting expectations? Then get rid of it" appears to be the majority view, and that's going to influence people's view on the matter. And so it has.

So, now this is apparently the accepted view, it's being expanded upon. So much so, that post #67 says "if you get a new dog....". No offense to you Clover, just picking your post because it's on this page, when measured alongside the other opinions expressed here, it would seem to be totally acceptable thing to say, because the party line has become "if a dog doesn't meet your expectations, rehome it (and get a new one later maybe)".

And to me that's simply not acceptable view point to be expounding, supporting or accepting.

But yes Katetk, rehome the dog if you have no interest in working with it to build a good relationship (your responsibility to do this btw, it's a fundamental aspect of dog ownership), if you can't be bothered to do it, the dog is definitely going to have a better life elsewhere with someone who will. In future, don't get a dog if you aren't prepared to deal with the fact it may not meet your expectations, because the simple fact is that dogs have individual personalities, and if you aren't prepared to accept that, don't get another one.

To be fair, I made the first comment and I also said in the distant future, not "when you go out next week to get a new dog". I also said that it might be acceptable to rehome the dog because in the back of my mind thought the husband is not happy about the dog staying and that some dog owners cannot forgive a dog for killing a guinea pig. Their horror and grief put a barrier between the dog/human relationship and that dog would be better off in a home with a fresh start. Thankfully this is not the case in this situation.

My statements were made from looking at things from a wholistic POV. If the dog is not happy and the dog/human bond is not present, or the dog is unhappy in a muli-dog house then sometimes no amount of training will help that fact. :)

[Wobbly]

I believe not every person suits every dog and vice versa.

Believing this, and also having seen many dogs enjoy a more enriched and happier life with other owners, rehoming due to 'irreconcilable differences', can be the solution.

Why should a dog or person be anxious or tentative or resentful? If an owner has thought long and hard, received advice from experienced / professional people and then makes that decision I do not see it as doing the wrong thing by that dog.

True - not every person suits every dog, some dogs are OTT in one way or another and require experience, time and dedication. Not everyone can do that, no argument. But this isn't one of those dogs, this little dog's only real "failing" that I can see is that it's owners don't want it anymore, there's no real problems with the dog itself. Of course a dog should not be tentative, fearful or anxious, and if you don't have enough interest in a dog to help it through any sort distress like that, then rehoming is definitely the best thing you could possibly do for the dog.

I realise that it's the husband in this instance who is unwilling to countenance the idea of putting in the time and effort to address the issue, so kudos to Katetc for seeking advice rather than just surrendering to the pound like most in this situation do. My apologies if I came off harshly, I realise your husband is the instigator of the "dogs must go" ultimatum, and you are actually posting looking for advice and alternatives to add to your discussion with him. I'm sorry you didn't actually get any alternatives, beyond "rehome".

The thread subtitle is "rehome, retrain, bond". Let me just restate that, it seems to have been missed: the thread subtitle is "rehome, retrain, bond".

No one seems to have considered the latter two questions, it's as though retrain or bond aren't options people consider worthwhile bothering with. The consensus is that if a dog doesn't meet expectations (doesn't 'gel' for example) the very first resort is "rehome" (after all you can always get another dog at a later date if you change your mind again). How about trying to work with the animal -actively work with it- as a first resort. On seeing "sad" behaviour in an animal that you cohabit with? Well for myself, I'd make an effort to identify the cause and find a solution to address it. Vet check, obedience class and talk with the instructor about it, private dog training class and discussion with instructor, a good behaviourist, all these could yield results.

But don't go getting another dog, take this as a cautionary tale - your husband (and perhaps you) are unwilling to keep a dog who is operating entirely within the bounds of normal, acceptable dog behaviour. If you're not able to reconcile yourself to Isobel, who sounds like a perfectly nice little animal, it's unlikely any other dog will fit the bill either, don't get another one.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Wobbly

[tdierikx]

The thread subtitle is "rehome, retrain, bond". Let me just restate that, it seems to have been missed: the thread subtitle is "rehome, retrain, bond".

No one seems to have considered the latter two questions, it's as though retrain or bond aren't options people consider worthwhile bothering with.

Mostly because after reading the other factors noted in the OP, the rehome option is probably the most sensible in this particular case. Many of us have asked if the OP is thinking of getting any more dogs in the near future, you may note...

T.

[moosmum]

I looked at it like this- If talking about re-homing as an option doesn't make people appreciate what the dog has to offer, its likely the sensible thing. Considered seriously, it can give a new appreciation of the dog and how you could improve things. Give incentive to work on it instead.

The O.P is aware of their choices. They listed them. You can say try to bond,spend more time with them etc. Or re-train,but they have to see that its worth it 1st. You can't promise it is.

A dog perfectly matched to its home can give dog and humans so much much joy in each other. Doesn't always happen. If its not in the best matched home,but you find it,You have at least 2 very happy,contented beings and thats got to be a good thing?

Dol promotes research and thought before getting a dog, a lifetime commitment, Matching puppies to homes,training and behaviourists and sharing time with your dogs and promotes those every day. But mistakes are made. Though working on problems is preferable,some times people just don't have the resources to do that time wise, financialy emotionaly mentaly or other reasons.

Edited May 27, 2013 by moosmum

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

But don't go getting another dog, take this as a cautionary tale - your husband (and perhaps you) are unwilling to keep a dog who is operating entirely within the bounds of normal, acceptable dog behaviour. If you're not able to reconcile yourself to Isobel, who sounds like a perfectly nice little animal, it's unlikely any other dog will fit the bill either, don't get another one.

I agree, I don't think the OP and husband should get another dog. Rehome these two and be done with dog ownership. Probably like many people these days, life is way too busy anyhow.

[espinay2]

I realise you're going to rehome responsibly and yada yada. For the record: in cases where there are manifest problems, dogs not getting on together and owner unable to manage the fights, or illnesses & other family crises, indeed, the only solution is often rehoming.

But that's not whats happening here. The issue here is simply a lack of interest in the animal. You can't expect a dog to take the initiative and pull out all the stops to bond with you. Developing a happy healthy relationship with an animal you bought into your home is entirely your responsibility. I guess if you don't care enough for the animal to try working with it on this, then it probably is best to rehome.

Which brings me to the point that this thread topic, and a large proportion of the comments herein, strongly brings to my mind the image of dogs as disposable consumer commodities. Cute to get a puppy for Christmas, and absolutely fine to pass it off to someone else sometime later due to not enough interest in the animal. I don't agree with this perspective.

Don't get another dog after this if you aren't willing to put the work in.

So, obviously again I'm standing by a very unpopular opinion, flame away.

Interesting you read it that way as reading it I see more concern about the dog being happy and fitting with their situation rather than the other way around. It doesn't seem to be a case of the humans not wanting to do the work, but whether the dog is happy in the situation that sometimes no amount if work can really fix as the examples of others here have shown. Dogs have individual personalities and just like all humans can not live together happily it stands to reason that sometimes dogs will have a mismatch too. It is a strong person who is looking out for the welfare of their dog that can realise that sometimes their dog will be happier elsewhere. It may not be good for the ego and it may hurt like hell to do it and yes you may feel guilt that you have 'failed' in some way, but in the end it is the dog is important. This is not 'disposal' as it comes from a whole other place and attitude. And the two should never be confused.

Edited May 27, 2013 by espinay2

[Trisven13]

I realise you're going to rehome responsibly and yada yada. For the record: in cases where there are manifest problems, dogs not getting on together and owner unable to manage the fights, or illnesses & other family crises, indeed, the only solution is often rehoming.

But that's not whats happening here. The issue here is simply a lack of interest in the animal. You can't expect a dog to take the initiative and pull out all the stops to bond with you. Developing a happy healthy relationship with an animal you bought into your home is entirely your responsibility. I guess if you don't care enough for the animal to try working with it on this, then it probably is best to rehome.

Which brings me to the point that this thread topic, and a large proportion of the comments herein, strongly brings to my mind the image of dogs as disposable consumer commodities. Cute to get a puppy for Christmas, and absolutely fine to pass it off to someone else sometime later due to not enough interest in the animal. I don't agree with this perspective.

Don't get another dog after this if you aren't willing to put the work in.

So, obviously again I'm standing by a very unpopular opinion, flame away.

Interesting you read it that way as reading it I see more concern about the dog being happy and fitting with their situation rather than the other way around. It doesn't seem to be a case of the humans not wanting to do the work, but whether the dog is happy in the situation that sometimes no amount if work can really fix as the examples of others here have shown. Dogs have individual personalities and just like all humans can not live together happily it stands to reason that sometimes dogs will have a mismatch too. It is a strong person who is looking out for the welfare of their dog that can realise that sometimes their dog will be happier elsewhere. It may not be good for the ego and it may hurt like hell to do it and yes you may feel guilt that you have 'failed' in some way, but in the end it is the dog is important. This is not 'disposal' as it comes from a whole other place and attitude. And the two should never be confused.

You have said what I couldn't find the words for.