aussielover Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Awww your cocker seems lovely. She seems happy and motivated enough during training. You don't seem to be doing much moving in that video more standing and poitning- with my slower dog, I find she is much more enthusiastic if I run with her or away from her. Thanks for the tip!! Tomorrow I'll try to run with Bonnie during training and see if we both improve. I'm still a beginner in agility but this sounds really helpful already :) She's actually quite focussed on you- with is a good thing. She is willing to please and eager to work. I think she could turn out to be a nice little agility dog, especially if you get some lessons and work on her separation issues. She will get faster as you both become more confident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheena Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 If I were you, I would be sticking with the dog you have until you are much, much more experienced in agility training, before you consider getting a border collie. They don't come already trained :) & a good BC with lots of drive will become frustrated with you & then you have all sorts of problems with barking, spinning & generally being out of control & yes, even jumping up & biting you on the elbow or bum. Others will become so frustrated, that they will shut down. You may also find that most of those breeders already mentioned will probably not sell you a pup until you are more experienced in agility & have more experience with border collies. The fun thing about training a dog is that you have to work with the dog you have....it's all about "the journey"...you & your dog learning together :) It's a fun sport, but we all have to work with the dogs we have...we can't just go on collecting dogs looking for the perfect pup :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilymarston Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 (edited) If I were you, I would be sticking with the dog you have until you are much, much more experienced in agility training, before you consider getting a border collie. Yes, my parents said I'm not allowed to get my own dog until I move out. I'm 14 now so I've still got a long time to consider this. I'm training my cocker at the moment, I love teaching her tricks and we've only just started agility. So for now I'm just dreaming up my perfect dog, and working with my cocker. Thanks for the help! Edited May 17, 2013 by Emily M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackJaq Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I think you and your Cocker are doing really well, especially seeing as you haven't had any lessons at all so far! I agree that you will probably need to reward a lot more to help her motivation and running with them helps. I also run ahead to speed up my dog when necessary. In the beginning we learnt to reward every single obstacle on its own (I've only had a few month of lessons so far myself) and we always mix up the obstacles after a few go's so the dog doesn't get bored and learns to actually watch for your direction, rather than anticipating and doing it on their own. I would suggests you do include more breaks where you praise and pat your dog and let her breath and think for a second, rather than getting her to do the same thing over and over. As I said, I think you are doing really well (better than us, we just can't get our head around the weave poles and your dog seems to be doing them very confidently!) and I think you might actually find yourself pretty competitive with this dog after some more work and some lessons :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Spotted Devil Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 If I were you, I would be sticking with the dog you have until you are much, much more experienced in agility training, before you consider getting a border collie. Yes, my parents said I'm not allowed to get my own dog until I move out. I'm 14 now so I've still got a long time to consider this. I'm training my cocker at the moment, I love teaching her tricks and we've only just started agility. So for now I'm just dreaming up my perfect dog, and working with my cocker. Thanks for the help! I am familiar with Guiremere, Kayladene and Adensly kennels amongst others - some great agility dogs but I agree what others have said about learning to drive before you get yourself a Ferrari My most experienced dog currently is a Dalmatian and he has been THE best teacher I could ever dream of. Super hard to motivate to do anything apart from lift his leg on a tree for the first 2 years but has just blossomed over the last 4 as I've worked out what makes him "tick". He runs really well now and gives his all (most of the time!) He wouldn't play tug or accept food or any other "reward" to begin with but now takes whatever I offer him. I do like a challenge though :) Very short, snappy, highly rewarding sessions are a good start - try to finish before your dog has had enough. Leave him happy, confident and desperate for more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 There is no doubt that the right working line BC with the right handler is pretty hard to beat. However, I always go by the adage "don't buy a Ferrari if you don't drive as well as Michael Schumacher". These are hair trigger dogs, that require incredibly focused, accurate handling and a lot of training to get sufficient team work and control to go well. For every gun team I've seen, I've also seen barking spinning dogs whose handlers are unable to get them cleanly around courses. There is also the issue of bar dropping due to less than ideal jump styles with some teams. So go in with your eyes wide open but do talk to the handlers of these super fast high drive dogs about the amount of effort it takes to get them going as well as some do. A good dog to aspire to if you're prepared to put the effort in to but not a dog for everyone IMO. Of course when they're off duty, they still require a lot of effort to keep busy. Vicki here would be a good person to start with. Definitely agree with this. I will never desire to own anything but a super high drive BC ever again, however, they are not for everybody. Our dogs run at about 6.5-7 metres/second on course (so that includes the actual jumping etc) which doesn't leave you a lot of time to work out what the hell you are doing :laugh: Only one of ours is a bar dropper, and that is pure laziness on her part as she is trying to get to the next obstacle too fast. The others rarely drop bars unless we do something ill-timed. Too many people around who want the fast dog, don't know how to train the fast dog, and end up with a dog that is very fast at spinning in circles and nipping out of frustration but not so fast at running in a straight line :) I think you need to make sure you can live with a border collie first, it's all well and good wanting one to do agility with but that is such a tiny part of the dogs life. I personally would get a dog suited for my lifestyle that can do sports than a dog that can sports but might not fit. Definitely agree with this too. A dog is only a performance dog for a small percentage of its life, the rest of the time it is your pet. Our dogs are incredibly easy to live with but that has to be taught to them. I have no doubt that if they were in a pet home they would drive their owners absolutely bonkers. These are the type of dogs that typically end up in the pound as they are not stimulated enough. We (and many other breeders like us) are incredibly selective in who our pups will go to for that very reason. They are not for the novice handler and for most people they are not for a first time BC owner. There are of course exceptions to this and I have frequently watched handlers of slow dogs and thought to myself, I would really like to see that person with a fast working dog, their handling talent is wasted on their dogs. We would never sell to a pet home, even an active pet home, and would think very hard about selling to someone we didn't know. In the wrong hands these dogs could be an injury waiting to happen, to either handler or dog. In the right hands it is pure poetry in motion :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 On the plus side, however, you could be waiting quite a while for a puppy from the breeder you want which gives you plenty of time to learn more about the sport, perfect your handling techniques, and borrow some fast working dogs to get a feel for them so you are ready when the time is right. Our current litter is 8 weeks old and there are people who have missed out on a pup that have been waiting for 4 years. They missed out on Link's 1st litter as she only had 4 pups, and then this litter she only had 3 so they still missed out. We had 9 definite homes lined up for this litter, with plenty of additional interested parties that we had made no commitment to (mating notifications etc). Some people have got other dogs in the meantime but are still happy to wait around for something out of one of Link's daughters when they are mated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natsu chan Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Emily I wonder if one of your parents would drive you up to KCC at some point( it is on Western Port HWY in Skye.) KCC is the kennel club ground and aside from there being shows and dog sports trials (including agility) being held there, it is also home to our dog library. You need to be a member of Dogs Vic to borrow books or DVDs but there are a lot of books and things on agility. The library is open on the weekend when there is an all breeds champ show on or on Tuesdays from 10 until 2. A dog club would help you a lot but there are all sorts of things you can learn going and watching trials or helping out if you can get your parents to agree. :) I agree with the comment about having to live with the dog you have first and fore most. I have rough Collies( same breed as Lassie :) ) because I love them and can live with them (I know a border is too much dog for me lovely as they are) I do obedience and rally with them and have a good time. It is about learning and working at things. Your mum's little cocker will teach you so much, and what ever dog you end up with in the end will profit so much from everything you learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 If I were you, I would be sticking with the dog you have until you are much, much more experienced in agility training, before you consider getting a border collie. Yes, my parents said I'm not allowed to get my own dog until I move out. I'm 14 now so I've still got a long time to consider this. I'm training my cocker at the moment, I love teaching her tricks and we've only just started agility. So for now I'm just dreaming up my perfect dog, and working with my cocker. Thanks for the help! At only 14 you're already doing a great job with your dog! So you can't get another dog for at least a few years? Use this time - learn everything you can about your chosen sport. Go to trials, talk to handlers, study the rules, learn handling techniques (go to seminars if you can too), meet as many dogs as you can and study the lines, find out what you like. In 3 or 4 years time I'm sure you will be more than ready for what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Both you and your dog are doing really well !! :) make it fun , and you both can run around like crazies :p ... if it's fun , she will enjoy it .... and get revved up more :) if there is a game .. or even one special toy/treat at the end ... then she will be really keen ! have fun , and keep learning . !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 After watching your video with Bonnie and learning that you're only 14, you've done so well!! I honestly think that you should keep working with Bonnie and leave the BC for now. I've been told that the most frustrating dogs to train in agility usually turn out to be some of the best. Keep in mind that you haven't been to agility training either, which will help you out with suggestions on how to get Bonnie motivated. I don't know if you've tried, but playing tug games can help excite dogs but one of the best things I learnt? Carry on like an idiot all high-pitched and crazy. That usually stirs up even the most serious dogs!! Don't give up on your gorgeous Bonnie -- I do see potential there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I'm familiar with a couple of the breeders you have mentioned and a few you haven't. I know some of their dogs and as far as drive goes they are INTENSE! I like that you're so interested in this and you're doing really well with your current dog. If you got one before learning it would be like buying a racehorse after just learning how to trot. Continue to learn and then breeders will see your dedication and passion and will not hesitate to hook you up with the right dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaCharlie Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Just read that you are only 14 (I skimmed through the posts in a hurry earlier). I think you are doing a pretty great job for someone who has never done the sport before. Your little cocker doesn't look too bad either :) You 2 should have a blast when you start going to training classes. How often do you have access to your cousin's dog? Would they be willing to let you have a muck around training it? It would give you a feel for a different style of dog to train (and to run down the track) and you will get a lot out of it. Just a thought :) Good luck with it all, and given the time frame you are working with and your age you have plenty of time to get a feel for the sport and learn heaps before you look at your next agility dog. There are plenty of cockers in agility who absolutely love the sport, they are raised that way from a puppy and live for the game. So, if your family ends up with another pet in a few years time there are plenty of things you can do with a pup to instill the love of agility into them, regardless of their breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Podengo Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 I started agility with my family dog (a doberman) when I was 12, she was pretty hard to motivate, and taught me SO much about agility and training! We did a lot of trick training too, and a little bit of obedience. I stopped training for a few years, but kept working with dogs through volunteer work and a boarding kennels, then when I moved out of home I was actually living close to the agility club where I had started as a 12 year old, so I volunteered to help out on their training nights (putting gear away etc.) even though I didn't have a dog yet. Through doing this I managed to find myself a few dogs to train and run (they belonged to other people and were particularly difficult dogs to work with) which taught me a lot about handling and working with difficult dogs. Made it all the better when I FINALLY got to get my own puppy, a jack russell x border collie. I was so prepared, having spent a year and a half totally immersed in agility, competing every weekend and learning from some of the best handlers around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilymarston Posted May 17, 2013 Author Share Posted May 17, 2013 How often do you have access to your cousin's dog? Every school holidays :) he's going to turn 1 in a couple of days, so next time I see him I'll probably be able to do some actual agility with him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 There is a lot you can work on without equipment, with a young or beginner dog (or even an advanced dog) that help a lot with agility, such as body awareness, recall work, speed exercises, sending to a toy or food, shaping various tricks. Plus they are a lot of fun :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 How often do you have access to your cousin's dog? Every school holidays :) he's going to turn 1 in a couple of days, so next time I see him I'll probably be able to do some actual agility with him At one year old, your cousin's dog is still too young to jump and weave. You can train him over poles on the ground and for a a contact strategy. The big challenge in agility is not getting your dog to do the obstacles, its getting BETWEEN them. A lead out, turns and serpentines and pull throughs can all be trained on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luvsdogs Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 You said you are teaching your cocker lots of tricks. Have you thought about doing Dances with Dogs? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mixeduppup Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 You said you are teaching your cocker lots of tricks. Have you thought about doing Dances with Dogs? :) I think that's a great idea. I'm doing that with Maybe at the moment (just at home) and LOVE it! I seriously would consider that one! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emilymarston Posted May 18, 2013 Author Share Posted May 18, 2013 You said you are teaching your cocker lots of tricks. Have you thought about doing Dances with Dogs? :) I'd like to, but all of the classes and stuff are really far away from where I live. At the moment I just make up pretend routines at home :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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