Cougar Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Ok, so I've been contemplating this post for a while. I am currently having issues with my 9yo greyhound and I need help/suggestions/anything really. To preface this I have to say he is the most stubborn dog ever and he's getting worse as he ages, in my opinion. My problem is that he's barking in the night time and he does not respond to verbal correction. If I try the ignore the bad behaviour thing, he just barks and barks and barks until he gets what he wants. I can't let that happen at 1 and 2 and 3 in the morning as you'd understand. He sleeps inside at night in the laundry, with my dane. He has fleece pjs, sleeps on a cot mattress so it's certainly comfortable enough. So some nights it's fine, other nights he's just a nightmare. Wants to go out 'bark bark bark', the other dog is in the spot he wants 'bark bark bark', the blankets have come off the mattress 'bark bark bark', anything at all 'bark bark bark'. So I get up and fix the problems because if I don't he just keeps carrying on. If I attempt a verbal correction, he just ignores me (seriously if he could flip me the bird, he totally would). I'm at a loss about what to do and the broken sleep is a real issue for me. So, brains trust - please help me. What can I do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Could you consider trying one of the citronella collars? We had a similiar issue and the major issue was that it was happening when I wasn't there to easily correct the behaviour. Put the collar on and she only barked at night a couple of times and it was all over. It's now in the cupboard and gets pulled out only occasionally if a refresher is needed. I only suggest it because like you we had pretty much determined that there was no real 'need' that could be easily met to fix the barking it was just what i would call nuisance barking if you know what I mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harley Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 How is his vision and hearing? Is it only happening at night or does he bark like this during the day too? Lack of sleep is torture, you have my sympathies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) He is getting old & the nights are cold. Sometimes they have to pee more. Sometimes it can be something outside that kicks them off. My 11 year old kept barking persistently at about 4 to 5 am. Solved the problem by letting him sleep in my bed, now all of them want a turn :) No more barking in the night, no more wanting to pee in the night. He sleeps like a baby & I have to drag him out of my bed the next morning. So much for being desperate to go out. Not the solution you want but I bet it would work. Edited May 15, 2013 by Christina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) Start with a vet check.. frankly it sounds a bit like dementia. There are both medications and diets that can slow the progression of the issue. Old dogs don't deal well with changes or set backs. They get frustrated and they bark. I would NOT punish this behaviour. To be quite frank I doubt he can help it. Are you absolutely sure he's warm enough? You've got him sleeping in the coldest room in the house. Edited May 15, 2013 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 I can't let them sleep inside as he would kill my cats (dogs and cats live in separate sections of the house). I don't mind if he needs to go and wee every now and then - it's the carrying on when something/anything doesn't suit him. Oh his hearing and sight are perfectly fine, let me assure you (ask the neighbour's cat). And yes, it's only at night that we have problems. With a citronella type collar, is that suitable for overnight? I've never used one, but I'd be worried about it not being under supervision if that makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I can't let them sleep inside as he would kill my cats (dogs and cats live in separate sections of the house). I don't mind if he needs to go and wee every now and then - it's the carrying on when something/anything doesn't suit him. Oh his hearing and sight are perfectly fine, let me assure you (ask the neighbour's cat). And yes, it's only at night that we have problems. With a citronella type collar, is that suitable for overnight? I've never used one, but I'd be worried about it not being under supervision if that makes sense. Sleep him in a crate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 He's got a double layer fleece coat, sleeps on cot mattresses with blankets on them, there's another large dog who sleeps in there with him and he used to sleep outside in an insulated kennel, so he's had it better in the last few years than ever before. I've never had a dog old enough to have dementia, if it were the start of that kind of problem what other symptoms would present? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelpiecuddles Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Do you think he stops barking because you fixed whatever he was barking at or is actually barking for you and the act of you going in there to fix it has satisfied that so he stops? I'm just wondering whether going and 'fixing' things is potentially rewarding the behaviour? Is he a young or old 9? Some dogs at 9 are quite old in their behaviour whereas others you wouldn't pick their age at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 (edited) He's got a double layer fleece coat, sleeps on cot mattresses with blankets on them, there's another large dog who sleeps in there with him and he used to sleep outside in an insulated kennel, so he's had it better in the last few years than ever before. I've never had a dog old enough to have dementia, if it were the start of that kind of problem what other symptoms would present? Symptoms of Canine Dementia Note points 5 and 7. I have a frustration barker here. Edited May 15, 2013 by Haredown Whippets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christina Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 The problem is that you can't figure out why he is barking so its trial & error. Can't you have him in your room & shut the cats out for a night or 2 to find out if this stops him ? Obviously he is not happy about something. I wouldn't see this as dementia unless he is showing many other signs of losing the plot. My dog isn't senile at all. He now knows exactly how to manipulate me perfectly to get his comfy nights now. What about an electric blanket on the mattress under a fitted sheet. Being warm may knock him out & shut him up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 getting worse as he ages, in my opinion. Wants to go out 'bark bark bark', the other dog is in the spot he wants 'bark bark bark', the blankets have come off the mattress 'bark bark bark', anything at all 'bark bark bark'. it's the carrying on when something/anything doesn't suit him. Oh his hearing and sight are perfectly fine, let me assure you (ask the neighbour's cat). And yes, it's only at night that we have problems. I would advise a full vet check ..as it does sound as if he is suffering from some sort of problem ..whether medical or psycholgical. Keep an accurate diary .. without descriptive /human words , like 'stubborn' Get the vet to properly check all his functions .... poor old fella ... it may be as simple as he wants his kennel back? (with a heating pad or similar ;) ) Please do NOT use any sort of bark collar or punishment which will do nothing except increase anxiety .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I would try a heat pad and see if that helps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 Yeah, I hate that I have to 'reward' him by going and fixing the problem but I can't just let him keep on barking at night. He's a young 9, in good condition and I'll keep an eye on him but I really don't think he's getting dementia, he's pretty sharp really. I think the manipulation thought is spot on. As a pup he was equally stubborn - screaming and tantruming to get what he wanted. I was able to manage and sort out the behaviour back then, but those strategies don't work at 2 in the morning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkySoaringMagpie Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Do you think he stops barking because you fixed whatever he was barking at or is actually barking for you and the act of you going in there to fix it has satisfied that so he stops? I'm just wondering whether going and 'fixing' things is potentially rewarding the behaviour? Is he a young or old 9? Some dogs at 9 are quite old in their behaviour whereas others you wouldn't pick their age at all. The owner appearing where the dog is may also be "fixing" things because it's providing reassurance to a confused or disoriented dog. This is honestly not something I would deal with with an aversive like a citronella collar given the information that has been presented here, and I am not anti these collars when used the right way on the right dog. In this case tho', the OP could escalate confusion and distress. If it was my dog I'd try sleeping him in a crate either in my bedroom or just outside the door. Bedrooms tend to be quieter with less external noise than laundries too and once everyone starts getting some decent sleep, then everyone will feel a lot better. Sighthounds can also appear stubborn when in fact they are unsure. I have an oldie here who joined us late last year and she can also appear stubborn when in fact she just lacks the confidence to do what is being asked - if I remove the thing that is bothering her, and let her take her time, she gets there. If I started throwing aversives at her I'd shut her down. In her case it's because of a fairly significant change in circumstances but dementia can produce a similar sort of failure of confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salukifan Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Yeah, I hate that I have to 'reward' him by going and fixing the problem but I can't just let him keep on barking at night. He's a young 9, in good condition and I'll keep an eye on him but I really don't think he's getting dementia, he's pretty sharp really. I think the manipulation thought is spot on. As a pup he was equally stubborn - screaming and tantruming to get what he wanted. I was able to manage and sort out the behaviour back then, but those strategies don't work at 2 in the morning! I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Dogs don't "manipulate" us simply because they can. That's human behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Animal House Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Swap the cats over to the laundry, have the dogs in your room, easier to lean over and fix the blankets, laundries are freezing, I bet you he's probably cold. Try going into that laundry in the middle of one of our cold 6c nights and you'll realize just how cold it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I think he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Dogs don't "manipulate" us simply because they can. <br style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: verdana, tahoma, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(238, 242, 247);">That's human behaviour. <br style="color: rgb(34, 34, 34); font-family: verdana, tahoma, arial, sans-serif; line-height: 18px; background-color: rgb(238, 242, 247);">Indeed. Dogs vocalise /show distress because they are distressed/ confused /uncomfortable ..and an owner appearing , esp in the dark is such a relief for them ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 15, 2013 Author Share Posted May 15, 2013 I did try leaving him outside in his kennel but that resulted in him barking at the laundry door, wanting to be let in with the other dog. I don't humanise my dogs - but I don't know what other word to use to describe what he does/how he behaves? As in he does what he needs to do to get what he wants . I'm not sure how to re-cast that in a non human word using light. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 I'm not sure how to re-cast that in a non human word you used the word :) NEED your boy NEEDS something ... you just have to learn what it is , now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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