Victoria New Laws

[BlackJaq]

Sounds like "puppy farmers" have had substantial input in the wording of this bill then. I suppose it might be in their best interests to shut down small breeders, as they will soon be the only place (other than one time ooops breeders) to get your puppies from....

[mita]

Yes, Black Jaq, those practices the Code is advocating re puppies 0-16 weeks, fit a 'farming' approach to rearing dogs. To make dogs, companion dogs for people, early socialization is necessary. And it's not there, in that Code.

From the University of Q'ld's, Vet Connect, School of Veterinary Science News & Events, Summer 208 (p5). Referring to a study conducted by their Centre for Companion Animal Health:

If the puppies have not been socalised with people before 14 weeks of age, they are unable to form normal attachments with people. Research at the Centre has shown that socialisation experiences with people and home environments are richer and more varied for puppies bred by registered breeders ... Puppies with better socialisation during this critical development period will likely be less at risk of relinquishment to shelters for behavioural reasons.

The one aspect of the Code that fits the above, is that the small scale breeder can raise their puppies in a home setting. Far more likely to enhance early socialization. So a tick for that.

Edited May 11, 2013 by mita

[JRG]

Jo. . . .

In the Regulatory Impact Statement there are references (footnotes) at the end of each section.

The one I read is at the end of section 3 Identification of Viable Options - Kustritz,M.V.R. 2012 recommendations for management of breed dogs: a review [i]Clinical Theriogenoogy, 4;25:37.[/i][/i]

Kustritz in turn cites 127 references going back to 1948

PM me if you want more info.

[Steve]

Yes, Black Jaq, those practices the Code is advocating re puppies 0-16 weeks, fit a 'farming' approach to rearing dogs. To make dogs, companion dogs for people, early socialization is necessary. And it's not there, in that Code.

From the University of Q'ld's, Vet Connect, School of Veterinary Science News & Events, Summer 208 (p5). Referring to a study conducted by their Centre for Companion Animal Health:

If the puppies have not been socalised with people before 14 weeks of age, they are unable to form normal attachments with people. Research at the Centre has shown that socialisation experiences with people and home environments are richer and more varied for puppies bred by registered breeders ... Puppies with better socialisation during this critical development period will likely be less at risk of relinquishment to shelters for behavioural reasons.

The one aspect of the Code that fits the above, is that the small scale breeder can raise their puppies in a home setting. Far more likely to enhance early socialization. So a tick for that.

Shocking isnt it - they want to be picky about whether they are fed from their own bowl when feeding a pup communally is part of learning pecking orders and how to be a dog among other dogs yet there is virtually no importance on even handling them let alone exposing them to different sights and sounds etc - pathetic.

[Are You Serious Jo]

I found it referenced in the DEPI pets section, it doesn't come up on google scholar though. Have they interpreted the other papers properly?

[Rebanne]

my friend just bought a puppy from a big kennel in victoria.she paid her money no questions asked and she got the pup in two days flown into NSW.

they dont have any permit numbers or microchip numbers in the advertisements or on their website where they list puppies available. they dont vaccinate with kennel cough only C3.

why make more laws if they still dont police the ones they have. if a big kennel like this can get away with it then it must be pretty easy for everyone to do it.why bother.

i can pm the link to the kennel.

besides anything else lots of breeders only give their pups a C3 so nothing sinister there. It's all I do.

[mita]

I'm just as stunned by the NSW Companion Animal TakForce doing the same thing. Totally jumping over the very thing that makes a puppy grow into a dog that can live with confidence alongside people. Socialisation. That's what makes a companion dog. Dishes????

These Victorian Code-writers have not even read carefully one of their own References. They list a research article by Appleby et al 2002 in the Veterinary Record.

This study found that problems with aggressiveness towards people & timidity around their contexts, can be traced to a lack in the pup's early experiences. But also to the fact that the mother dogs were not domestically socialised.

Non-domestic maternal environments, and a lack of experience of urban environments between three and six months of age, were both significantly associated with aggression towards unfamiliar people and avoidance behaviour.

Yet the authorities twitter & fret & regulate about people-aggressive dogs.... but never make the connection with lack in early socialisation experiences & in the degree of socialisation of mother dogs.

And this Victorian Code is setting out 'raising' and 'managing' practices that are deficient in socialisation. They haven't understood that one of their own References points to its importance, if you don't want people-aggressive and excessively timid dogs.

Edited May 12, 2013 by mita

[Steve]

my friend just bought a puppy from a big kennel in victoria.she paid her money no questions asked and she got the pup in two days flown into NSW.

they dont have any permit numbers or microchip numbers in the advertisements or on their website where they list puppies available. they dont vaccinate with kennel cough only C3.

why make more laws if they still dont police the ones they have. if a big kennel like this can get away with it then it must be pretty easy for everyone to do it.why bother.

i can pm the link to the kennel.

besides anything else lots of breeders only give their pups a C3 so nothing sinister there. It's all I do.

Law in Victoria says kennel cough has to be given too.

[Rebanne]

my friend just bought a puppy from a big kennel in victoria.she paid her money no questions asked and she got the pup in two days flown into NSW.

they dont have any permit numbers or microchip numbers in the advertisements or on their website where they list puppies available. they dont vaccinate with kennel cough only C3.

why make more laws if they still dont police the ones they have. if a big kennel like this can get away with it then it must be pretty easy for everyone to do it.why bother.

i can pm the link to the kennel.

besides anything else lots of breeders only give their pups a C3 so nothing sinister there. It's all I do.

Law in Victoria says kennel cough has to be given too.

Link please

[Steve]

The reason they want to include kennel cough in this new code is to bring it into line with the current requirements for sale of dogs legislation.

[Steve]

Not law for breeders yet. The Code fails to include canine cough (Parainfluenza [Type II] and Bordetella bronchiseptica) vaccination as part of the prescribed vaccination schedule for dogs resulting in an inconsistency with the level of vaccination status required for the sale of dogs from the recently revised Code of Practice for the Management of Dogs and Cats in Pounds and Shelters (Revision 1) and for dogs and cats being housed temporarily under the Code of Practice for the Operation of Boarding Establishments (Revision 1).

[WreckitWhippet]

Puppies 3 weeks of age to weaning must be provided with an appropriate food in a shallow food receptacle according to the business' health plan.

Too bad if your into natural weaning at let the bitch feed the pups for you, as nature intended

[Rebanne]

Not law for breeders yet.

Thank Dog for that, do they want to poison our babies? C5 and heartworm, how wicked and I said so in my submission. Huge overdose of chemicals and they want the breeder to refund the purchase price if a dog dies within 3 years if it is from something traceable to the breeder. Well cancer from overuse of chemicals could be one thing

[Steve]

Puppies 3 weeks of age to weaning must be provided with an appropriate food in a shallow food receptacle according to the business' health plan.

Too bad if your into natural weaning at let the bitch feed the pups for you, as nature intended

Yep have to run around after her as she vomits to catch it in bowls - idiots.

[Linda K]

the code as it is will wipe out all cat breeding within 1 generation - all kittens now have to have c5 vaccination before sale. Any cats must then be tested to see if they have FeIV / FIV before being allowed to be bred from - if they test positive they cannot be used for breeding. Any kitten you have bred yourself and has been vaccinated will of course test positive, as this is what happens when they have been vaccinated - the test shows antibody reaction. So not only will you not be able to breed with your own kittens, you will not be able to buy one from another breeder either. And that is leaving aside the potentially lethal effects of c5 vaccination in the first place. Given that pounds ans shelters, in their own code which was reviewed in 2011, only have to have c3 vaccination, and catteries are meant to be set up so as to allow absolutely no chance of contact with "outside" cats, the chance of our breeding cats even contracting these conditions is nil. And that is also leaving aside that before a kitten can be sold, it needs to be vet checked to ensure it has no internal parasites or other things - most of which will require swab testing, or blood drawn from the jugular, and about $800 per kitten to get all the results. Given I only sell my kittens for $650, most of which covers their food, litter, vet work etc, and leaves precious little if any left over, it means I will be losing over $800 for each and every one.

[inez]

I agree with above posts but this

* there is no vaccination available for heartworm

is confusing me a little because we recently had all our dogs vaccinated for heartworm... Do you mean there is no vaccination available in Vic or we just shelled out about $150 per pop for a non-existent vaccination?

The injection your dog recieved is not a vaccination. It is a slow release pellet.

It kills a percentage of dogs but who cares about that.

certinly culls anything that cant tolerate it. I think? its been banned in the USA for that reason. Trouble is how many of these high brows formulating these laws actually ever bred a dog in their life. Or even have one as a pet?

Edited May 11, 2013 by inez

[Steve]

So here's pretty much what they want us to come down to. No need to research or attempt any increase knowledge or make any decisions on what is best for your dogs or cats because it has been determined that we should simply do as we are told.

Exactly what decisions will still be left up to the breeder even though we know that what they tell us to do is not going to increase the health or welfare of our dogs? Never mind we will all have cleaner carpets anyway.

[inez]

Some of this has to come down to whether it's good regulation. Most state governments and the Federal Government have deregulation agendas and guidance material on best practice regulation. Usually black letter law regulation is supposed to be a last resort, and the costs of compliance for both Government, business and the community are supposed to balance properly against the outcomes. A lot of the NSW recommendations don't comply with it and it looks on first scan like this stuff doesn't either.

I agree its VERY bad regulation - best practice is much more about outcome-based regulation, customer focus and cost-effective compliance. Not this tick-the-box input-based crappola. It reads like they want to be able to prosecute anyone at any time, so put a lot of detailed requirements the average person will not keep documentation on - where are your dog feeding receptacles and disinfectants stored? dogs in house? - where is your last carpet cleaning receipt? why wasn't your dietary plan reviewed and signed of by a vet according to schedule? It's rubbish governance, anal-retentive, inefficent and ineffective.

there's only so much room on the high moral ground and eventually they start kicking each other off it.

love this turn of phrase.

Yes. Adorable Isnt it.

Havent they been doing that already ?

[inez]

Sounds like "puppy farmers" have had substantial input in the wording of this bill then. I suppose it might be in their best interests to shut down small breeders, as they will soon be the only place (other than one time ooops breeders) to get your puppies from....

I think you have it.

[inez]

Not law for breeders yet. The Code fails to include canine cough (Parainfluenza [Type II] and Bordetella bronchiseptica) vaccination as part of the prescribed vaccination schedule for dogs resulting in an inconsistency with the level of vaccination status required for the sale of dogs from the recently revised Code of Practice for the Management of Dogs and Cats in Pounds and Shelters (Revision 1) and for dogs and cats being housed temporarily under the Code of Practice for the Operation of Boarding Establishments (Revision 1).

Enough toy breed puppies die from the c3, add kennel cough to an under 12 to 16 week toy breed and you double the death rates. But then it does effieciently cull the number of surviving puppies? Is that the idea?

Edited May 11, 2013 by inez