Victoria New Laws

[inez]

So what happens if your dog lifts their chicken frame out of the bowl, you get a fine. Oh wait, that won't happen because very few vets will approve of raw They have to be kidding about offal, you can easily buy it hydatid free from the flipping supermarket in the section for humans! So do they really think offal cleared for human consumption is still at risk of having cysts, why aren't they screaming to protect people from this deadly menace! What will happen is that they'll find this won't have any impact on the number of brindle staffy types in the pound so they will drop the number of fertile bitches a Vic dogs breeder can have to less than 10. Breeders can easily keep 10 anyway and still not create a puppy farm situation so 10 hardly makes you a farmer. AR are now running the bloody welfare groups.

With the recommendations being considered on listings here, you wont be able to sell more than 4 litters in one year so why keep 10? Even if its legal so far.

If Troy feels no one other than a puppy farmer would breed more than 4 litters, I expect this will be the opinion across the board in a very short time.

It will be interesting to see how fast registrations will fall then.

Last I saw, it ways there are only 6,000 members now. Looks what I read is incorrect."If the reference no's on the online response form are anything to go by only 980 people have responded to the taskforce response paper since my son did his over a week ago. Come on people, fill in the form & send them in. With Dogs NSW saying they have 7000 member email addresses, that is not good enough IMHO.

Although I'm not a breeder, I don't want my choice of puppy from a pure bred registered dog breeder restricted because most of them can't afford to keep breeding. "

If they can only ethically produce 4 litters, the toy breeds only produce 1 to 4 pups, although the big breeds 6 to 16.

Might make interesting figures. If out of 6,000 members the year 2012 produced 60,000 pups. so thats 10 pups per member.

An awful lot already arent producing even 10 pups in any given year already?

Although it certainly will ensure few if any could end up in a pound. Most people wont be able to source one anyway.

Edited May 6, 2013 by inez

[dog_fan]

So let me get this straight, I can feed my dogs offal (human grade) because I have less than 3 fertile dogs BUT if I have more than 3 fertile dogs this would be banned. Where is the science or logic in that? If it really was about the dogs and based on science then the feeding of offal would be banned for ALL dogs.

Try telling my dogs that they should keep their chicken frame in their bowl whilst they delicately eat it. What a joke this proposed legislation is.

[Steve]

I have to write a response to it and Im finding it really difficult to do because it is SO far away form what we know is best science and husbandry .Surely to God filthy puppy farmers are not that much of a problem that everyone else's dogs have to be treated as badly as they want them to be.

Amazing they want to say they have to get two days between sex but they only have to have a smal area to live in and get to move for 2x 30 mins a day to get some exercise. Its nuts. Does anyone know any species that needs to rest 2 days between sex ? If dogs could talk I reckon male dogs would be pretty put out about that - in fact if you have a boy on the premises where on heat bitches live who cant get a bit twice a day they get stressed and often need to be sedated - If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.

[Steve]

So let me get this straight, I can feed my dogs offal (human grade) because I have less than 3 fertile dogs BUT if I have more than 3 fertile dogs this would be banned. Where is the science or logic in that? If it really was about the dogs and based on science then the feeding of offal would be banned for ALL dogs.

Try telling my dogs that they should keep their chicken frame in their bowl whilst they delicately eat it. What a joke this proposed legislation is.

It would appear they are on about breeders who feed meat which hasn't gone through a butcher shop - where there is a risk of Hydatid but surely people who feed offal via butcher shop shouldn't have to be in a situation where offal can never be eaten - its ridiculous. they are big over medicating on worming anyway .

[dog_fan]

So let me get this straight, I can feed my dogs offal (human grade) because I have less than 3 fertile dogs BUT if I have more than 3 fertile dogs this would be banned. Where is the science or logic in that? If it really was about the dogs and based on science then the feeding of offal would be banned for ALL dogs.

Try telling my dogs that they should keep their chicken frame in their bowl whilst they delicately eat it. What a joke this proposed legislation is.

It would appear they are on about breeders who feed meat which hasn't gone through a butcher shop - where there is a risk of Hydatid but surely people who feed offal via butcher shop shouldn't have to be in a situation where offal can never be eaten - its ridiculous. they are big over medicating on worming anyway .

But the proposed legislation does not make this distinction and it will be policed based on the actual wording until someone challenges it.

[Steve]

Yep

[Are You Serious Jo]

Common sense would dictate they add no offal other than from a licensed premises, but why do that when you want to get rid of grubby breeders anyway even if they are registered and don't breed much. Dog fan is right, if they thought it was such a problem they would insist no offal for any dog. Is there any suggestion anywhere that puppy farmers even have a problem with hydatids, wouldn't they just be feeding crap dry food? Where is the evidence?

[Erny]

Common sense would dictate they add no offal other than from a licensed premises, but why do that when you want to get rid of grubby breeders anyway even if they are registered and don't breed much. Dog fan is right, if they thought it was such a problem they would insist no offal for any dog. Is there any suggestion anywhere that puppy farmers even have a problem with hydatids, wouldn't they just be feeding crap dry food? Where is the evidence?

The pen-pushers in Govt who write the laws (and the ones who suggest and push for them) in Victoria don't have dictionaries that possess the words "common sense". And the Victorian Govt don't bother with evidence (they blink at it and turn away) when that would only complicate or thwart their attempts to essay-write a law or want to appease someone they're 'fond' of by that writing of law.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Erny

[Are You Serious Jo]

It just seems designed to hurt breeders. If they know about hydatids why don't they know that offal from licensed premises is safe? I think they know but don't give a toss. Easier to just get breeders if they say no offal then find some regardless of whether it's safe. I can't believe a vendetta is allowed to go so far.

[Sheridan]

Guess for dogs who are dead keen on liver treats, they'll just have to do without from now on.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Hopefully the businesses who make liver treats will jump in. But that is just one small problem in a document full of bullshit.

[Aphra]

I'd urge everyone who has even the most passing interest in the topic of animal welfare to respond to this legislation.

I'm a rescuer, not a breeder, but I've read the proposed legislation with alarm. I'd suggest people particularly read the RIS where it is made clear that this legislation is being proposed without any base of evidence at all, in fact the RIS says the government doesn't even know how many commercial dog breeders there are in Victoria.

I think the intent of the proposed legislation (to do justice to the DPI) is to ensure that the conditions for dogs in commercial breeding operations are good, and to ensure that puppies going out into the community are healthy and well-socialised. I think all of that could be achieved by outcomes-based legislation - I'm thinking definitions of healthy, well-socialised puppies and healthy, well socialised parents. The kind of detail in this legislation is going to be impossible to police anyway. The RSPCA will ask for more donations to "stop puppy farming", but they will go after small scale backyard breeders or registered breeders - the big, commercial breeders will be left alone.

As I said in another post, the definitions of cruelty are being broadened to include parasites (worms, fleas, etc) and lack of grooming, which is all very well, but experience might suggest that once those definitions are in one piece of legislation, they'll be included in another, and they give the RSPCA more power than they already have, without any concurrent accountability.

There was an infamous case on DOL where the RSPCA seized (and killed) some little dogs from a good rescuer, on the grounds that they had parasites. The dogs were only recently in from the pound, but the RSPCA took good people to court, drove them out of rescue and made a huge hole in their lives.

In general I'm not opposed to the idea of animal rights (as opposed to welfare), but I'm at heart a libertarian and I always opposed to legislation which is not based on evidence, is proposed on the basis of public outrage and hands more and greater power to organisations which are not accountable or transparent.

If you're a good breeder doing the right thing, I think you need to care about this legislation and make your voice heard in a logical, consistent and intelligent manner.

[Steve]

Hopefully the businesses who make liver treats will jump in. But that is just one small problem in a document full of bullshit.

Well it say here that cooking it still has a problem associated.

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/agriculture/pests-diseases-and-weeds/animal-diseases/zoonoses/hydatids-a-disease-of-dogs-that-affects-people

[Are You Serious Jo]

Hydatid cysts are visible as they are reasonably large from what I remember so there is no way they could escape attention in liver treats. But why ban offal from breeding dogs and not pets if they consider it such a huge problem? Hydatids in dogs is still fairly rare so why is this even an issue? Do they think puppy farmers go out and hunt their dog food?

[corvus]

Does anyone know any species that needs to rest 2 days between sex ?

I know some species that maybe should rest 2 days between sex.

Why doesn't someone ask if offal is considered the same as organs before people get too excited? Can you imagine someone getting fined for feeding liver treats? I'm sure that sounds absurd even to animal rights activists and is not the intention at all. If it was challenged in court that would be the end of that.

[minimax]

Does anyone know any species that needs to rest 2 days between sex ?

I know some species that maybe should rest 2 days between sex.

Why doesn't someone ask if offal is considered the same as organs before people get too excited? Can you imagine someone getting fined for feeding liver treats? I'm sure that sounds absurd even to animal rights activists and is not the intention at all. If it was challenged in court that would be the end of that.

By definition, isn't offal and organs one and the same?

[Are You Serious Jo]

LOL, organs are offal. Yes, if someone wanted to get you they would have legislation to back them when you were seen feeding out liver treats.

[megan_]

glad I'm not a breeder because my dogs don't even own bowls. They eat food out of their puzzle toys or when training. They LOVE it. I would hate for them to lose out on the highlight of the day....

[Steve]

glad I'm not a breeder because my dogs don't even own bowls. They eat food out of their puzzle toys or when training. They LOVE it. I would hate for them to lose out on the highlight of the day....

Sssssshhhh

[Jed]

I have to write a response to it and Im finding it really difficult to do because it is SO far away form what we know is best science and husbandry .Surely to God filthy puppy farmers are not that much of a problem that everyone else's dogs have to be treated as badly as they want them to be.

Amazing they want to say they have to get two days between sex but they only have to have a smal area to live in and get to move for 2x 30 mins a day to get some exercise. Its nuts. Does anyone know any species that needs to rest 2 days between sex ? If dogs could talk I reckon male dogs would be pretty put out about that - in fact if you have a boy on the premises where on heat bitches live who cant get a bit twice a day they get stressed and often need to be sedated - If it wasn't so serious it would be funny.

I asked my stud dog, and he was horrified. And - why would you stop using a dog at 7? If his likely lifespan is 15+, he will still be fertile.

ALL this IMHO, is calculated to make to too difficult for people to continue to breed dogs.

And a health plan agreed to by my vet? If I asked my vet about that, he would fall about laughing.