Training 8 Month Old Pug

[Lonni]

Almost 2 weeks ago we collected our 8 month old pug from the breeder. We intentionally avoided a little puppy because we have 3 small children and there are always many people coming and going.

The gorgeous little guy came from a breeder who lived alone. He was kennelled with other males, so is not housetrained. We are starting from scratch with all behaviours, including sitting, staying down etc.

We have had a few problems (not unexpected) from the start:

Growling at the children

Barking at softly-spoken people (for no apparent reason).

Jumping up on kitchen cupboards, dining table, kids' high chair

Jumping up in the lounge (that was our fault, we let him do it for the first few days).

Sloooooww housetraining!

To combat the growling we let the kids give him treats freely so he would associate them with good things. We also let our 3 year old son (who seemed to cop the bulk of the aggression) feed him his meals. This seems to have largely worked. We rarely get any growling now.

The barking at softly spoken people is embarrassing. We had a very shy guest who hardly speaks. The pug was sleeping, and when she uttered her first word he instantly awoke, ran up to her and barked aggressively. Rightly or wrongly, we put him outside, because it was intimidating for our guest. What should we do to discourage this in future?

For the jumping up we are making the "uh-uh!" sound and saying down. We push him away from the cupboard every.single.time. It doesn't seem to have had an effect yet. Will this work eventually?

Same for the high chair/dining table. I guess the problem there is that sometimes the kids drop food, so he's getting a reward for doing it. Do I keep up the same treatment - the "uh-uh!" sound and saying down while we push him away?

With the lounge we wanted him to be able to get up when we picked him up, but not to jump up himself. I came to the conclusion that this was just too confusing for him, so now we've just stopped allowing him up at all. It is very slow going - like the dining table, it's "uh-uh!" sound and saying down while pushing him off. Is this going to be sufficient to train him? It is a nightmare when I'm trying to feed my baby and he's jumping up and all over the both of us. At times like that I've been sutting him outside, but he gets distressed, scratches at the door and often urinates against it.

The housetraining is a trial. He now goes outside reasonably quickly when I take him outside. I say "potty", then wait until he's about to go and say it again so I can praise him immediately once he goes. I praise him enthusiastically, and sometimes give a treat. Problem is that whenever he is unsupervised in the house he will urinate against a wall, even when he's gone recently. I'm pretty sure he isn't "busting". He just wants to mark inside.

When training him for 'sit' etc he is very judicious with his compliance. He'll do it when he thinks there is a treat reward, but is seemingly disinterested in praise only. I know pugs are very motivated by their stomachs, but I've never known a dog to be so disinterested in praise. It's like I'm trying to train a cat!

I've read about crate training. Do you think that this would be a good way to proceed with the housetraining? Or considering pugs are such lap dogs, would it be too stressful for him to be isolated, even in a crate in the common dining area?

I would greatly appreciate any advice. I dearly want this puggy boy to be a good family member and the whole family is committed to putting in the hard work to get him there, but I need to know we are on the right track, and if we're likely to have any breakthroughs soon.

Thanks in advance!

Lonni

[persephone]

Hi

I am on my mobile so will strongly suggest you contact K9 Pro dog training. You need personal advice on a professional level to

Help understand and manage this pup and his behaviours.

[DesertDobes]

He looks gorgeous! Persephone is absolutely right that professional help is in order.

In the short term, get a crate. if he's been kenneled most of his life he might be very overwhelmed with all the activity in your household and needs somewhere to have time out and rest (just like kids, they may not seem like they want to rest but tantrums happen from over stimulation).

Contact the breeder too if you feel that he's not settling in, see what they have to say.

[DesertDobes]

Also with crate training, I've never crate trained an older puppy, but you can leave him in there to sleep and whenever you can't supervise him. Start with short amounts of time and if food is his thing then portion out his ration of daily food and give him some whenever he goes in the crate.

Ian Dunbar has a good how to book online for crate training and other general puppy business http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogger/4

[Kavik]

With the crate, I am currently training my new puppy and throw some of his food into the crate every time he goes in there. Now he runs into the crate when he knows it is that time, very funny :laugh:

[Dogsfevr]

Crate training is good for some things but not a miracle cure.

Does pup have a doggy door or his he reliant on you opening the door to let him out??

How often do you take him outside & when outside what do you do to encourage him to toilet .

I think the biggest thing you need to understand is getting an older pup doesnt equate to making it easier it can often be more work to retrain established habits & routines

Personally in your situation i would have gone for a pup that grew up with your children & your home rules .

The biggest thing is whilst life may be busy in your household you need to committ the time to the pup,the effort you put in now will make pup a pleasure latter on.

A puppy pen may be a better option where pup can be placed for time out in a pleasant way not when in trouble (ie if kids are going a tad crazy pup can go to a safe zone ) .

The biggest thing is being consistent,patient & positive,

This pup has had a different lifestyle & now its whole world has been changed from what is normal to now very full on & maybe intimidating ,

Help is a good idea if your struggling & talking to the breeder aswell as they best now the dogs & what it is use to

[minimax]

Is he desexed?

[Lonni]

Crate training is good for some things but not a miracle cure.

Does pup have a doggy door or his he reliant on you opening the door to let him out??

How often do you take him outside & when outside what do you do to encourage him to toilet .

I think the biggest thing you need to understand is getting an older pup doesnt equate to making it easier it can often be more work to retrain established habits & routines

Personally in your situation i would have gone for a pup that grew up with your children & your home rules .

The biggest thing is whilst life may be busy in your household you need to committ the time to the pup,the effort you put in now will make pup a pleasure latter on.

A puppy pen may be a better option where pup can be placed for time out in a pleasant way not when in trouble (ie if kids are going a tad crazy pup can go to a safe zone ) .

The biggest thing is being consistent,patient & positive,

This pup has had a different lifestyle & now its whole world has been changed from what is normal to now very full on & maybe intimidating ,

Help is a good idea if your struggling & talking to the breeder aswell as they best now the dogs & what it is use to

We have not yet installed a doggy door, so we leave the door open most of the time so he can come and go freely. Being a typical pug, he just seems to want to stay inside with us all the time. On a good day I take him out every 20 minutes of so and we don't have any problems. He goes outside and no accidents. The problems occur only when I'm distracted with cooking dinner or dealing with the kids. It's like he's having a little tantrum! :)

I don't think time commitment is going to be a big issue - we are definitely committed to spending the time necessary - I realise it will be well and truly worth it in the long term. It has been a big change for him, and I think he's coping amazingly well really. I just want to have confidence that I'm doing the right thing for him and not making his life more difficult by doing anything silly.

We are really trying to be positive in our reinforcement.

[Lonni]

Is he desexed?

Yes, he was desexed at 6 months. He came from a reputable breeder who was preparing him for the show ring, so he's not as unruly as I've probably given the impression of.

[juice]

I second Steve at K9 Pro, shoot him an email and tell him whats happening.

You need to address the growling at the kids quickly.

A crate of pen maybe a good idea when you are busy and he needs peace in his own space.

I took on a 2 yr old ex kennel dog, its not easy, i too had Steve out when she started to settle in and began asserting herself a little too much.

[minimax]

Is he desexed?

Yes, he was desexed at 6 months. He came from a reputable breeder who was preparing him for the show ring, so he's not as unruly as I've probably given the impression of.

lol ok, that's good.

It will probably be a lot of time and patience (and food). Pugs learn through food, but don't be surprised if he chooses not to do things when it doesn't suit him. I have two pugs, so I know what they are like ;)

However, getting a professional could help, I'll second the recommendation for Steve from K9Pro http://www.k9pro.com.au

[megan_]

With the crate, I am currently training my new puppy and throw some of his food into the crate every time he goes in there. Now he runs into the crate when he knows it is that time, very funny :laugh:

sorry to go OT, but YOU HAVE A NEW PUPPY? Please point me to the pictures...

[Kavik]

With the crate, I am currently training my new puppy and throw some of his food into the crate every time he goes in there. Now he runs into the crate when he knows it is that time, very funny :laugh:

sorry to go OT, but YOU HAVE A NEW PUPPY? Please point me to the pictures...

Yes I have a puppy :laugh: I have to resize the photos first, might have video up before then, I find that easier :laugh:

[Lonni]

Thanks everyone. A friend recommended Steve to me today too - he must be really something!

I bought a crate this afternoon and I've been leaving little treats in there for Goliath (the pug) to find whenever he walks past.

Up until now Goliath has been sleeping on a trampoline bed with a play pen around him at night. Do you think it is reasonable to put the crate in the play pen but leave the crate door open tonight?

That way he'll sleep in the cate because the bedding is soft?

Lonni

[Christina]

2 weeks is a short time for him to get used to a drastic life style change.

Both you & him are doing extremely well & you sound so sensible & are committed to getting him settled.

There is no absolute right way, various methods are frequently used to get the same results & there is no quick, instant fix where the dog will do & be all you want in a day. You are making progress & it will be a little more each day.

Take in all the advice & suggestions from everywhere & then choose to use the ones that seem to make the most sense to you.

[Lonni]

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions. Just an update on how he is going (and more questions!).

Firstly, we have taken your advice and booked into see Steve at K9Pro. Unfortunately there is a wait of several months, so we are on our own until then.

- All aggressive behaviour has stopped. We still get barking when someone comes to the door, but no growling, and he has gotten used to children. I think he actually enjoys the exercise of being chased around by a friend's toddler- when he stop chasing, Goliath will actually chase him around a bit to rile him up. Cheeky thing!

- Jumping up against the cupboards/table has been tricky because it is self-rewarding. He often gets food out of it. I hope I don't get flamed for this, but I've found that a spray bottle of water is a great deterrent. I only had to spray him 3 times before he got the message that he isn't to jump up. Now I only need to keep the spray bottle handy.

- I bought a crate and I've been crate training him. He sleeps in the crate and it is his safe place if he needs it. He will rest in there with the door open, but he absolutely hates being crated (with the door closed) during the day, so I don't tend to do it unless I'm desperate (like going out for 20 minutes, or changing the baby's pooey nappy).

- Housetraining is a total disaster! Whenever I take him outside he goes and he gets praise and a treat. I've been using a clicker too, and I've found it great for teaching behaviours. The problem is that it is getting cold, and he prefers not to go outside. He will actually run away from me, off the lawn, back onto the deck and pee against the back door. Other times he will do just enough wee for a chick and a treat, then go straight inside and finish the wee up against a wall. This is driving me batty! I've already gone through a full bottle of urine off.

It doesn't appear that I'm not taking him outside often enough - he does the tiniest little wees inside, and much more frequently than he needs to. If I crate him he would be fine for hours. It does seem to be a decision - I think he enjoys marking inside.

Is the houstraining likely to get any better? Am I just being impatient? I don't want my house to smell like dog urine permanently!

Chewing is also a problem. The kids toys (particularly the wooden ones) are being destroyed. I think this is my fault. I just need to keep the toys off the floor, supervise him properly, and replace inappropriate item with one of his chew toys. I probably need to be more proactive with providing more interesting chew items and puzzle toys. I've heard of Kong wobblers - any good for small dogs? What types of bones would you recommend? Chicken necks? Raw lamb bones?

Sorry for the essay. My life has become soooo busy since this little guy arrived! I've attached a picture of where he is right now - snuggling with the kids' stuffed toys :)

Thanks in advance.

Lonni

[minimax]

Thank you all for your helpful suggestions. Just an update on how he is going (and more questions!).

Firstly, we have taken your advice and booked into see Steve at K9Pro. Unfortunately there is a wait of several months, so we are on our own until then.

- All aggressive behaviour has stopped. We still get barking when someone comes to the door, but no growling, and he has gotten used to children. I think he actually enjoys the exercise of being chased around by a friend's toddler- when he stop chasing, Goliath will actually chase him around a bit to rile him up. Cheeky thing!

- Jumping up against the cupboards/table has been tricky because it is self-rewarding. He often gets food out of it. I hope I don't get flamed for this, but I've found that a spray bottle of water is a great deterrent. I only had to spray him 3 times before he got the message that he isn't to jump up. Now I only need to keep the spray bottle handy.

- I bought a crate and I've been crate training him. He sleeps in the crate and it is his safe place if he needs it. He will rest in there with the door open, but he absolutely hates being crated (with the door closed) during the day, so I don't tend to do it unless I'm desperate (like going out for 20 minutes, or changing the baby's pooey nappy).

- Housetraining is a total disaster! Whenever I take him outside he goes and he gets praise and a treat. I've been using a clicker too, and I've found it great for teaching behaviours. The problem is that it is getting cold, and he prefers not to go outside. He will actually run away from me, off the lawn, back onto the deck and pee against the back door. Other times he will do just enough wee for a chick and a treat, then go straight inside and finish the wee up against a wall. This is driving me batty! I've already gone through a full bottle of urine off.

It doesn't appear that I'm not taking him outside often enough - he does the tiniest little wees inside, and much more frequently than he needs to. If I crate him he would be fine for hours. It does seem to be a decision - I think he enjoys marking inside.

Is the houstraining likely to get any better? Am I just being impatient? I don't want my house to smell like dog urine permanently!

Chewing is also a problem. The kids toys (particularly the wooden ones) are being destroyed. I think this is my fault. I just need to keep the toys off the floor, supervise him properly, and replace inappropriate item with one of his chew toys. I probably need to be more proactive with providing more interesting chew items and puzzle toys. I've heard of Kong wobblers - any good for small dogs? What types of bones would you recommend? Chicken necks? Raw lamb bones?

Sorry for the essay. My life has become soooo busy since this little guy arrived! I've attached a picture of where he is right now - snuggling with the kids' stuffed toys :)

Thanks in advance.

Lonni

Nothing wrong with using a spray bottle if he jumps up, however jumping up on the cupboards isn't self-rewarding if you are giving him food. You are training him to jump up, so decide if you want him to jump up or not and stick with it, because you can't reward him sometimes and punish him othertimes, that's not fair. How is he meant to know the right way to do it if you give him mixed messages?

Does he have stuff to pee up against in the yard, or is the only thing the back door/wall etc? Being a boy he will want things to lift his leg on, like trees or plants or clothes lines etc, does he have these? And if the places he's been peeing on smell of pee, he will keep going back there, so are you getting rid of the smell with vinegar etc?

Sounds like you might need to start putting him on a leash and taking him outside to toilet, and staying out there with him until he goes to teach place to go. And if you know he's only doing a little wee to get a treat, don't give him the treat.

If the kids toys are on the floor, how does he know they aren't his toys? I think that's a human training issue, not a dog training issue ;)

Kongs are good, my pugs get kongs each day when I go out. Chicken necks/wings/carcasses etc are more dinner than entertainment as they last only minutes. My guys get lamb shanks for entertainment or when I'm studying and need some peace and quiet. Or things like pigs ears.

Seems like things are slowly getting better. And he's very cute!

[persephone]

Cute photo

But

If he is allowed to sleep on/with the kids' toys ... he doesn't understand they are not also his to chew

I also agree with using a longish leash for toileting ..and remind you that YOU may need to grab a brolly and stand out in teh cold/wet as well. he won't get used to it if you stay in shelter ;)

You have a very cute puppy , and keep up the good work!

[Lonni]

Thank you!!!!

Totally valid about the kids' toys- definitely a problem of our own creating. Although those particular ones on on his lounge, so we realise they are fair game and he isn't disciplined for chewing those.

With the going outside, I imagine that many new puppy owners are probably a bit lazy. But we are not one of those - we stay out there every time, even in bad weather, and for extended periods if that is what it takes. A leash is a great idea - We stopped that once he got the idea of going outside, but the cold weather is new, an it's changed his behaviour. Time to reintroduce it then. He does have things to go up against, but they are on the edge of the yard and Id prefer him to go in the lawn. Maybe I should get a pee post for him. His current favourite place (in good weather) is to taunt the chickens in the coop until they try to peck him and then he pees through the wire at them.

When he pees in the house I've been using urine-off, but I've run out and I've slacked off since then. Plain vinegar (undiluted) is just as good? I can see the light with most of the other behaviours, but I'm just despairing of the toilet training - I am genuinely doubtful that he will ever be reliably housetrained. Do some dogs never get it?

I probably expressed myself badly with the jumping up on cupboards. We never feed him from the benches and he has improved out of sight with that. It is mostly jumping against/up on the dinner table and baby's highchair that is the lingering problem requiring the spray bottle. The kids are messy eaters and the baby can't help but drop stuff on his lap, and the circus pug is getting very good at walking on his hind legs and balancing his head to get the tasty treats of baby's lap - cheeky!!

Lamb shanks sound like a good idea.

[Clyde]

Is the houstraining likely to get any better? Am I just being impatient? I don't want my house to smell like dog urine permanently!

Pugs are notorious for weeing inside!

I have a 2yr old who marks inside.

I have friends with Pugs who mark inside too.

I've taken mine back to basics so many times and now just juggle a belly band, a crate and a watchful eye!

I'm ecstatic if we get through one week without a sneaky pee inside somewhere. He is a master of sleuth pees and has completely trained me to throw him on the couch each evening as at least I know where he is then and he doesn't pee on the couch!