Proposed Puppy Ad Changes

[juice]

And just because i can't resist , " blue is no longer rare" :laugh:

[The Spotted Devil]

But you could, with the breed heading have a price range, ie. expect to pay between $1000 and $1500 for this breed?

Yes! I like this from a purchaser perspective - would be interested in how breeders feel though.

[minimax]

And just because i can't resist , " blue is no longer rare" :laugh:

Yep, something that removes all words "rare " from blue listings would be good!

Unless It's "rare because the last hundred generations arent all blue"

Edited May 3, 2013 by minimax

[juice]

Joking aside, it could well be incoporated into the breed info, listing the colours, and mentioning all are not rare, if there is a genuine rare colour in a breed it could be said so in brackets next to the colour?

[BJean]

Edited May 3, 2013 by lilli

[minimax]

Joking aside, it could well be incoporated into the breed info, listing the colours, and mentioning all are not rare, if there is a genuine rare colour in a breed it could be said so in brackets next to the colour?

I worry about highlighting rare. That's where you can start to get the "rare" brindle pugs and rare colours that don't exist in breeds.

Just excluding people from calling blue rare would probably be enough :laugh:

[BlackJaq]

I think a puppy buyer's guide with prominent links posted on the puppy listing page would be a great idea. I'm amazed at the number of people who have no clue, they buy a dog, pure bred or not, like you would buy a cushion for a lounge. They like the look of it so they want it! No idea about vaccinations, chipping, 8-week age limit, not to mention the fact that different breeds have different temperaments, suitabilities and requirements!

Some have totally unrealistic expectations of puppies, they might never even think about toilet or lead training until well after they bring home a puppy!

[goldchow]

Speaking of providing an approximate cost that a puppy buyer of a particular breed could expect to pay I think this could be a very good idea. This of course would need to vary, some litters cost more than others at times for a number of reasons. I note in my own breed there have been many ads for chow puppies on Gumtree and the Trading Post from unregistered breeders, no papers, no health checks and the asking price from $3,000 to $5,000. There has been a 'rare' fawn being advertised for $4,000 in NSW recently, fawn is not a rare colour which could be another plus to Troys idea of showing what the usual colours of each breed are.

Registered breeders that I know of my breed generally ask half or abit more than what is being advertised elsewhere no matter what colour, with papers and after sale support so there is a very big difference.

[tdierikx]

Maybe a basic fact sheet on each breed advertised could be a goer? Include things like what it takes to breed and raise a happy, healthy, purebred pup; what colours are acceptable in the ring (and/or for breeding with); what levels of activity the breed is prone to need; and the like...

As for "rare" blue staffords - they are as rare as rocks these days, but demand will always bump up the asking price... *sigh*

T.

[Steph M]

I like the idea of a guide, I was talking to a lovely high school friend today who found her adorable and oh so sweet poodle's breeder on here and the poor little dog is 9 months old and her back knees are just a wreck and she's facing some pretty crummy decisions.

She thought she was on the right track, the lady who bred her was lovely, she paid a good amount of money and did her research on the breed beforehand, she just didn't know squat about the health testing or what to ask.

Possibly not the breeder's fault, but the info being readily avail in terms of health tests will make it glaringly obvious where the tests are lacking.

[inez]

I like the idea of a guide, I was talking to a lovely high school friend today who found her adorable and oh so sweet poodle's breeder on here and the poor little dog is 9 months old and her back knees are just a wreck and she's facing some pretty crummy decisions.

She thought she was on the right track, the lady who bred her was lovely, she paid a good amount of money and did her research on the breed beforehand, she just didn't know squat about the health testing or what to ask.

Possibly not the breeder's fault, but the info being readily avail in terms of health tests will make it glaringly obvious where the tests are lacking.

As quite a few of my friends who have bought or bred their Golden retriever/german shepherd/ labrador, etc have learned, clear hip scored parents do not a clear pup guarantee.

Same for Patella. The great news is you can blame the breeder, but which breeder? The one who in many cases bought the mum from another, used a top quality male or had one themselves, either way both parents checked and clear. Some who have generations can show you clear vet checks for up to 3 and 4 generations. Today no one accepts responsiblity for bad luck or bad judgement, eg the husky that was shot.

As one vet has put on the net. NO one can guarantee faults cannot appear no matter how well the parents, grand parents and even great grand parents passed their vet checks. Even Clear DNA can still have a mutation. How do you think downes syndrome appears? The aging egg can develop a fault and the downes child is born, the fault is now heridatory, Do you really think dna changes only occured in ageing women?

9,999 deletrius and more genes exist, so far there are how many DNA tests for faulty genes? A dozen?

If we expect perfection in any new arrival, the bad news is, an awful lot of people are going to be dissapointed. My friends baby has two holes in its heart and awaiting life saving surgery if they dont close themselves while the baby is being stabalised.

If that baby was a pup heaven help the person who bred it, in todays climate.

Most DNA damage the embroyo doesnt survive, but when it does, who is unethical? The owner of the mother? Or mother nature?

Reality is in very short supply today .

Edited May 5, 2013 by inez

[Steph M]

No I do understand it may not come down to anyone's fault, but isn't it easier to rule out breeder responsibility if from the get go you know the adequate testing has been done as opposed to not?

I wasn't trying to bash breeders, just saying if I were to use it as an example of where full and complete information might help both parties, and on the chance she wasn't up to scratch, my friend would have known from day dot.

Didn't mean to cause offense, just trying to convey opinions from the consumer side of the fence.

[Steph M]

As quite a few of my friends who have bought or bred their Golden retriever/german shepherd/ labrador, etc have learned, clear hip scored parents do not a clear pup guarantee.

And this I agree with, sure. But if there was no merit to the tests, why would they be done?

They are the best early indicator available, I assume.

[inez]

As quite a few of my friends who have bought or bred their Golden retriever/german shepherd/ labrador, etc have learned, clear hip scored parents do not a clear pup guarantee.

And this I agree with, sure. But if there was no merit to the tests, why would they be done?

They are the best early indicator available, I assume.

Sadly they are the only one. AND now its been discovered beyond doubt that nutrition is very much involved.

I will try to find the link, but an experiment proved that low bodyweight in the growing pups and throughout life halves the incidence of HD in full siblings. also significntly prolongs healty life and onset of arthritis in old age.

[inez]

No I do understand it may not come down to anyone's fault, but isn't it easier to rule out breeder responsibility if from the get go you know the adequate testing has been done as opposed to not?

I wasn't trying to bash breeders, just saying if I were to use it as an example of where full and complete information might help both parties, and on the chance she wasn't up to scratch, my friend would have known from day dot.

Didn't mean to cause offense, just trying to convey opinions from the consumer side of the fence.

I wasnt offended I doubt anyone was.

Although the blame game is one of the major reasons less and less people are interested in breeding.

[Rebanne]

I like the idea of a guide, I was talking to a lovely high school friend today who found her adorable and oh so sweet poodle's breeder on here and the poor little dog is 9 months old and her back knees are just a wreck and she's facing some pretty crummy decisions.

She thought she was on the right track, the lady who bred her was lovely, she paid a good amount of money and did her research on the breed beforehand, she just didn't know squat about the health testing or what to ask.

Possibly not the breeder's fault, but the info being readily avail in terms of health tests will make it glaringly obvious where the tests are lacking.

As quite a few of my friends who have bought or bred their Golden retriever/german shepherd/ labrador, etc have learned, clear hip scored parents do not a clear pup guarantee.

Same for Patella. The great news is you can blame the breeder, but which breeder? The one who in many cases bought the mum from another, used a top quality male or had one themselves, either way both parents checked and clear. Some who have generations can show you clear vet checks for up to 3 and 4 generations. Today no one accepts responsiblity for bad luck or bad judgement, eg the husky that was shot.

As one vet has put on the net. NO one can guarantee faults cannot appear no matter how well the parents, grand parents and even great grand parents passed their vet checks. Even Clear DNA can still have a mutation. How do you think downes syndrome appears? The aging egg can develop a fault and the downes child is born, the fault is now heridatory, Do you really think dna changes only occured in ageing women?

9,999 deletrius and more genes exist, so far there are how many DNA tests for faulty genes? A dozen?

If we expect perfection in any new arrival, the bad news is, an awful lot of people are going to be dissapointed. My friends baby has two holes in its heart and awaiting life saving surgery if they dont close themselves while the baby is being stabalised.

If that baby was a pup heaven help the person who bred it, in todays climate.

Most DNA damage the embroyo doesnt survive, but when it does, who is unethical? The owner of the mother? Or mother nature?

Reality is in very short supply today .

Excellent answer

[BlackJaq]

I think a lot of people with large breed dogs with these kind of issues also may have let the puppy climb, jump, etc unhampered and never thought it was a problem until there was a problem. Not saying all of them, but environment and, as you have said, nutrition are often ignored and breeders blamed when puppy buyers were pretty careless about how they raised their puppy in the first place.

[Steph M]

I really didn't mean to derail the thread, was just using a friends experience as a hypothetical example of how a member of the general public can be believing they have done everything correct and are heading down the right path and be way off without all the info.

Just using that to highlight what a great idea test results published would be, if said breeder didn't do any testing, that would stick out like a sore thumb.

Sorry for the derailing. I will back away now, I certainly know other factors play a huge part in development. :)

[Jed]

Steph M, you mentioned "knees", so I guess the problem is luxating patellas? Can be hereditary or acquired - medial is usually hereditary. Problem is that both parents can be clear, ditto g/parents and one pup from the litter can be affected.

People with problems with purebred registered pups should approach the breeder - in a reasonable, non judgemental and non threatening way, or email, and mention the problem ... see what happens then.

I am not sure I would be doing any patella ops on a 9 month old, without a specialist opinion - or two. Vets are quick to call LP on growing toy pups ... mostly they are right, mostly not.