Proposed Puppy Ad Changes

[BJean]

There is no date on it, does anyone know if this page is current or not?

http://www.dogzonline.com.au/puppy-ads.asp

If it is current, what do you think of the proposed changes?

ANKC Conformation Shows have no real meaning to ASD and CAS.

It says zero about the dog other than it was amenable enough and of extroverted temperament to compete in all breeds.

The day the ASD and CAS breeder ads read like the Tibetan mastiff ie all based on show results which show zero about traditional working temperament which is the basis of utilitarian breeds, is a day of regression for my breeds.

Not happy Troy.

NB: No offence to showies or breeds whereby show results are the cornerstone of their breed evaluation. But ANKC Show awards have historically had very little correlation to what is assessed as breeding stock or necessary in the ASD and CAS. And nor will it benefit ASD and CAS for this to change.

Edited May 2, 2013 by lilli

[Cosmolo]

But isn't all Troy is talking about is having a symbol on an ad that means someone shows? How is that in any way exclusionary?

[Sheridan]

There is no date on it, does anyone know if this page is current or not?

http://www.dogzonlin...u/puppy-ads.asp

If it is current, what do you think of the proposed changes?

ANKC Conformation Shows have no real meaning to ASD and CAS.

It says zero about the dog other than it was amenable enough and of extroverted temperament to compete in all breeds.

The day the ASD and CAS breeder ads read like the Tibetan mastiff ie all based on show results which show zero about traditional working temperament which is the basis of utilitarian breeds, is a day of regression for my breeds.

Not happy Troy.

NB: No offence to showies or breeds whereby show results are the cornerstone of their breed evaluation. But ANKC Show awards have historically had very little correlation to what is assessed as breeding stock or necessary in the ASD and CAS. And nor will it benefit ASD and CAS for this to change.

I think it's sad that showing has become the cornerstone of breed evaluation in some breeds.

[BJean]

Furthermore Troy, some of our best dogs representing ASD and CAS in Australia are banned from ANKC exhibition or registration on account of ears cropped or country of origin.

The best breeding stock is often on the farm.

Show awards, Aus champion is not the yardstick this new format would make it out to be.

First its the councils, State CCs and now Dogzonline also.

I will not have the show mentality skew my breeds. Nor will I be part of an all breed platform that narrows the outlook of new ASD and CAS breeders and owners.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Maybe give Troy some suggestions for the breeds like the LDG breeds. The main thing I see being attempted is weeding out the BYBers and it can be done in a few ways, for some breeds showing, all breeds health tests, some titles in herding etc. I don't think there is any attempt to exclude the non traditional dog activities and their breeders, so maybe some ideas on what to look for in an ethical breeder in your breed? I'm a supporter of groups self policing so I think this is a good move and helps educate the new puppy buyers too.

[BJean]

But isn't all Troy is talking about is having a symbol on an ad that means someone shows? How is that in any way exclusionary?

It is the emphasis that is the problem. It implies that showing actually means something significant wrt breed evaluation; and worse, it begets a new generation of breeders who feel they need to compete in terms of show results.

In turn it means breeders choose dogs to keep based on what will show. This is not good for ASD and CAS.

[Are You Serious Jo]

What if showing had a symbol that was equal in weight to one for herding, agility, guard work, tracking, retrieving etc?

[minimax]

Maybe give Troy some suggestions for the breeds like the LDG breeds. The main thing I see being attempted is weeding out the BYBers and it can be done in a few ways, for some breeds showing, all breeds health tests, some titles in herding etc. I don't think there is any attempt to exclude the non traditional dog activities and their breeders, so maybe some ideas on what to look for in an ethical breeder in your breed? I'm a supporter of groups self policing so I think this is a good move and helps educate the new puppy buyers too.

See, I think this is the main point people might be missing. The proposed changes don't seem designed to conspire to exclude any breeds or anyone for not doing a particular sport or activity, they seem designed to weed out the dodgy people in the best way Troy knows how.

I see Troy saying a lot that he wants more info from those knowledgeable in their breeds to help the puppy buyer, and to a large majority of puppy buyers those showing symbols won't mean much. To a few they might, and perhaps some will see them as a status symbol, or lack of, and maybe that's why people are getting up in arms?

[Are You Serious Jo]

I do understand that there has been too much importance in some people's minds about showing so I see where everyone is coming from. I think someone from each discipline (or group) could provide a good explanation for their activity so the general public could read about them and see their importance. I think this could be a really positive thing, there could finally be one resource that provided a good overview of all dog activities and a list of reputable breeders as well as all health information.

[BJean]

What if showing had a symbol that was equal in weight to one for herding, agility, guard work, tracking, retrieving etc?

Perhaps. But Troy has no means to measure or verify LGD work. I will see what happens RJ :)

[BJean]

I think it's sad that showing has become the cornerstone of breed evaluation in some breeds.

The one and only dog that we have that gives us goat and sheep milk … Çoban Köpeğimiz (our shepherd dog)

This is the ultimate 'breed standard' for Turkish Shepherd dogs and is from the earliest published account of the dogs.

Nothing to do with colour, or a standardized breed type, only the fulfillment of its duty as Turkey's protector and provider. You will not find this in the show ring. It can not be measured by a judge's hand.

Edited May 2, 2013 by lilli

[Are You Serious Jo]

I know it's tricky, but if someone asked you how to identify a good LGD breeder what would you tell them to look for? That is what I was thinking is needed, the same info you'd tell anyone who was looking to get into the breed. It's going to be different for every discipline and this is where experienced people can make a difference.

[Silvawilow]

If I were Troy, and I'm not Troy, I'd be uncomfortable with being a vehicle for farmed dogs, and would probably put in place something similar. Not because I consider myself a regulator, but because it's my business, and I'd be running as I liked.

Very nicely put.

I thought it's an overall excellent statement, showing social conscience, business ethics & insight into the p/b breeding world. Well done, Troy.

Just wanted to highlight one bit of the statement that 'speaks' to me.

Recognition will also be given to those who participate in ANKC activities (eg Showing, Obedience, Agility, Retrieving etc).

This kind of participation as dogs go out into the world & encounter other dogs, other people & other environments is worth its weight in gold, for socialisation. And that's what makes a companion dog, a companion dog. And well socialised mother dogs have a positive influence on their puppies.

This is ONE aspect of the p/b dog breeding world that's the total opposite of someone operating in a puppy farming way.

.

Agree with everything above!

[juice]

I reckon having a symbol next to your ad to say you show may well be detrimental to attracting newbie's.

I bet most newbie's would pick the health checked dog not shown over the one that is.

Joe public is still very wary of show dogs and think its all snobby dog people.

Another thing that bugs me is ads with old pics, if you are selling a litter, take a pic of the litter or mature dog you are selling, i don't want to see a pic of a litter from 5 years ago.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Showing also needs to be demystified for those that think it's all that matters and those who think it's an elite waste of time.

[juice]

Perhaps a survey troy ,of what is important to buyers in an ad, to build the template?

i know what i would like to see to make purebred dogs more attractive, lets see what everyone else thinks, bounce idea's around?

[Rebanne]

actually while I think this is a great move forward and I see where Troy is going with this, my ads will still most likely just say: litter born on such and such a date, pups may be available, details on website, email me. Happy to include parents but really I only use any ads to direct people to my website.

[shirra]

This is why I want the clubs to supply information to assist the buyer. What is each test, what is an 'acceptable' result and why the test is done. Give information to the average person that is easy to understand.

Yes! It would help to educate the public, and makes the buyers task easier.

Plus, on some sellers websites it is easy to get lost trying to find relevant information which then has to be written down before moving on to check the next seller.

[Kajirin]

Perhaps a survey troy ,of what is important to buyers in an ad, to build the template?

i know what i would like to see to make purebred dogs more attractive, lets see what everyone else thinks, bounce idea's around?

As a consumer, a survey seems like a good idea

[inez]

Come to think of it?

WE know no puppy should be sold under 8 weeks old and

No puppy should be sold without its vaccination or microchip card and paperwork.

I cannont see anywhere on this site telling newbies if these three very important facts are not present in the pup they see, they should RUN, NOT WALK OFF THE PLACE IMMEDIATLY.

Maybe put it somewhere very prominant?

Would there be room on the Home page to fit it in the Looking for a Puppy section on the page?

With a nice big red

"WARNING READ THIS FIRST BEFORE GOING TO SEE ANY PUPPY

This applies for ANY puppy xbred or purebred"

With a click link listing what they need to ask to see before even looking at the pup and explaining why this is so important?

Edited May 2, 2013 by inez