Proposed Puppy Ad Changes

[juice]

From my point of view, who knows nothing much about showing etc, i would like to see something like a heading for each breed, with a list of health testing that should be done for the particular breed, then next to each breeders puppy ad, ticks or cross's as to which test they have done, or not done.

This would at a glance, for newbies be easy to see what problems may occure in their chosen breed, and who is health testing for it.

I suppose it depends on the market DOL wants to attract, if its too complicated to understand ( sire, dam, health tests that no one knows what they mean in laymans terms) it makes purebred dogs too hard to understand and joe bloggs backs away. Surely the aim is to make pure bred dogs more accessable to the public to get them out there?

[raz]

At the end of the day it is Troys site, don't like it? don't use it, quite simple really :)

Yep I totally agree.

[Troy]

I suppose it depends on the market DOL wants to attract, if its too complicated to understand ( sire, dam, health tests that no one knows what they mean in laymans terms) it makes purebred dogs too hard to understand and joe bloggs backs away. Surely the aim is to make pure bred dogs more accessable to the public to get them out there?

This is why I want the clubs to supply information to assist the buyer. What is each test, what is an 'acceptable' result and why the test is done. Give information to the average person that is easy to understand.

[Christina]

At the end of the day it is Troys site, don't like it? don't use it, quite simple really :)

That is correct however it is good that input is being asked for as breeders do pay a small fee to be on this site.

Steves view has its merits & good points too. Maybe it would be better to leave the advertising as it is.

Its all getting too hard & restrictive enough.

[Salukifan]

Yet another organisation that wants to police breeders.....soon breeders will give up breeding due to too much unnecessary interference. This policy clearly identifies this site as being an ANKC site interested in only ANKC breeders who show...so really it has become a show breeders site, all other breeders not welcome.

The day the ANKC demonstrates that is able to effectively police its registered breeders itself perhaps the desire to 'police' will fade.

In the meantime, if Troy is taking the steps he considers may assist to keep the less desirable breeders from his website, then I say good on him. There might be a few less broken hearted puppy buyers.

At least he's trying.

[alpha bet]

It doesn't help either that entire litters are on limit register save the pup the breeder keeps for them self or a friend. No more do breeders encourage newbies or is there the welcome attitude that once was the norm 40 years ago. I know it only says I have been a registered breeder for 25 years + but it is quite amazing to remember how nice people were when I bought my first pup compared to the gauntlet of fire that awaits the one who dares to ask for a main register pup today.

There is hardly a kennel that will sell anything other than a "pet only" limit register pup to be found.

Agree with you Inez.... I joined Dogs Vic in 1979 as a 19yo and breeders really encouraged people to get involved in the dog scene - friendly and helpful was my intro and when I wanted to get a bitch there were breeders who helped me choose and she came to me (no fee) on breeders terms for the first litter which helped me learn - those same people were there to help me with further litters. They exchanged info on bloodlines and also problems that were experienced. Nowdays it seems such a closed shop..... (however I still try to follow the example of those who helped me and I am sure or hope there are others who do the same).

We should look on the positive - Dogzonline is a great site as it acts as a communication between the existing dog fraternity and the general public.... it is often the first port of call when the public is looking for information on getting a dog... not just about buying a pup but also about options of different breeds, care and requirements. There is also the chance for public to view and enter into discussions (for good or bad) on the forum. Perhaps for many of the public it gives them the chance to seek a pure breed over an 'oodle' and hopefully it gives access for the public to be able to decide what makes a good breeder.

What I like as a breeder - it makes my advertising easier and feels much more professional as it is reserved for pure breds only - it provides access to the interested public who have had a chance to review the breed and start to make more informed choices, they also have a chance to see what litters are forthcoming - not necessarily a pup ready to go home now - they have to wait and this makes me feel they have more commitment to their decision.

It is good that the owners of the Site consider a review of their format and perhaps we are lucky as members to actually have a chance to give some input - something that would be good to see Dogs Victoria attempt - their site offers little for us members and even less for the public.

[juice]

Thats a good idea Troy, purebred dog buying needs to become more easier to access for the public.

We need to stop the facade that purebred dogs are only for showing, perhaps a reason not to list the sire and dam ?

It has to be simple and easy to understand, ie, X breed suffers from xyz, link to each condition?

I would think if you saw an add full of ticks next to each health check you would pick that breeder over one with none.

[Rosetta]

I suppose it depends on the market DOL wants to attract, if its too complicated to understand ( sire, dam, health tests that no one knows what they mean in laymans terms) it makes purebred dogs too hard to understand and joe bloggs backs away. Surely the aim is to make pure bred dogs more accessable to the public to get them out there?

This is why I want the clubs to supply information to assist the buyer. What is each test, what is an 'acceptable' result and why the test is done. Give information to the average person that is easy to understand.

Purely from a "consumer" perspective can I just say that this is an excellent idea? When researching breeders - in my particular experience mind you - it was surprising how many side-stepped the questions regarding provision of information around health testing - even thinking that stating that pups were "vet checked" was an adequate response.

[raz]

Yet another organisation that wants to police breeders.....soon breeders will give up breeding due to too much unnecessary interference. This policy clearly identifies this site as being an ANKC site interested in only ANKC breeders who show...so really it has become a show breeders site, all other breeders not welcome.

Its not an organisation. Its a privately run website. If you dont like it the forum owner isnt holding a gun to your head to use it. Pretty simple.

[_PL_]

I don't understand the breeder side but if I were looking for a puppy, it would make the process a little clearer.

How would I know what to ask about health testing?

How would find a dog whose parents and breeders work on e.g agility instead of just picking the breed I think would be suitable?

Or even know if all the people I email to find a puppy aren't actually having litters that year?

There's been so many "Help Me" threads here when someone gets a dog with issues that they had no idea needed to be taken into the equation when they first started looking.

Not everyone advertises on DOL apparently, and there's nothing wrong with tidying up the listings that haven't been touched (I've found a few whose websites don't exist anymore for example) or offering a better, clearer way for people to find the dog they want and is suited to them.

[juice]

Yep, simple and easy to see and approachable.

I often get asked where to look for pups, i want to say here, but with certain breeds there are a lot of not so good breeders listed, how do i then say which ones to look at?

I want to see a clear sign of which breeders are doing the right thing.

Show stats mean nothing to me, i want a healthy sociable dog.

[Sheridan]

I don't understand the breeder side but if I were looking for a puppy, it would make the process a little clearer.

How would I know what to ask about health testing?

How would find a dog whose parents and breeders work on e.g agility instead of just picking the breed I think would be suitable?

Or even know if all the people I email to find a puppy aren't actually having litters that year?

There's been so many "Help Me" threads here when someone gets a dog with issues that they had no idea needed to be taken into the equation when they first started looking.

Not everyone advertises on DOL apparently, and there's nothing wrong with tidying up the listings that haven't been touched (I've found a few whose websites don't exist anymore for example) or offering a better, clearer way for people to find the dog they want and is suited to them.

Well, exactly. In one of my breeds there is a new (last year) test and breeders can say they've tested their dog but the important bit is what did the test say and if it said a particular thing, what is the breeder doing about it for the other dog in the mating.

[The Spotted Devil]

It is hard for a puppy buyer. With Dalmatians they should be hearing tested at around 6 weeks - there are 2 different machine types with one being known to be more accurate. I know breeders who travel long distances to use the more reliable test but, when the machine broke down, they had no choice but to use the less preferred test.

[dog_fan]

Yet another organisation that wants to police breeders.....soon breeders will give up breeding due to too much unnecessary interference. This policy clearly identifies this site as being an ANKC site interested in only ANKC breeders who show...so really it has become a show breeders site, all other breeders not welcome.

Its not an organisation. Its a privately run website. If you dont like it the forum owner isnt holding a gun to your head to use it. Pretty simple.

It sure is, it is a commercial site therefore telling people to leave sort of defeats the purpose of making money wouldn't ya say? Consumers will always vote with our feet, it is where the power lies.

Most smart businesses look at the implications of any decision, seems to me trying to help is not wanted, well so be it.

BTW one definition of an organisation is this:

- the act of organizing a business or an activity related to a business;

ie private or public this web site is an organisation

[raz]

Yet another organisation that wants to police breeders.....soon breeders will give up breeding due to too much unnecessary interference. This policy clearly identifies this site as being an ANKC site interested in only ANKC breeders who show...so really it has become a show breeders site, all other breeders not welcome.

Its not an organisation. Its a privately run website. If you dont like it the forum owner isnt holding a gun to your head to use it. Pretty simple.

It sure is, it is a commercial site therefore telling people to leave sort of defeats the purpose of making money wouldn't ya say? Consumers will always vote with our feet, it is where the power lies.

Most smart businesses look at the implications of any decision, seems to me trying to help is not wanted, well so be it.

BTW one definition of an organisation is this:

- the act of organizing a business or an activity related to a business;

ie private or public this web site is an organisation

Its Troy's business how much money he makes from the site, wouldnt ya say? His house, his rules. Nothing stopping you from setting up your own site if you're so unhappy with the way he runs his.

[wings]

I like the idea of a template for the ads. I browse the puppy listings as part of my research into my next dog and I'll admit that some of the ads are really unhelpful from the perspective of the average puppy buyer. Ads that cover health testing, availability (number of pups and dates of when ready) and home suitability (showing, working, family pet, etc) and cost are much more helpful then an ad that just reads "puppies available, contact for more info."

[mita]

If I were Troy, and I'm not Troy, I'd be uncomfortable with being a vehicle for farmed dogs, and would probably put in place something similar. Not because I consider myself a regulator, but because it's my business, and I'd be running as I liked.

Very nicely put.

I thought it's an overall excellent statement, showing social conscience, business ethics & insight into the p/b breeding world. Well done, Troy.

Just wanted to highlight one bit of the statement that 'speaks' to me.

Recognition will also be given to those who participate in ANKC activities (eg Showing, Obedience, Agility, Retrieving etc).

This kind of participation as dogs go out into the world & encounter other dogs, other people & other environments is worth its weight in gold, for socialisation. And that's what makes a companion dog, a companion dog. And well socialised mother dogs have a positive influence on their puppies.

This is ONE aspect of the p/b dog breeding world that's the total opposite of someone operating in a puppy farming way.

.

Edited May 2, 2013 by mita

[tdierikx]

Right now the changes are in the proposal stage, yes?

People here (paying members I'm guessing) are having their say and putting forward some reasons both for and against the proposed changes... and I'm sure Troy is listening and making notes in order to make the changes as fair as he can, while also trying to make the ads more informative for prospective puppy buyers.

Quite frankly, Troy must have the patience of Job to run a site like this... how about a little less screaming, and a little more constructive input, so that some sort of compromise that suits the majority (and Troy) can be the outcome?

T.

[mita]

I like the idea of a template for the ads. I browse the puppy listings as part of my research into my next dog and I'll admit that some of the ads are really unhelpful from the perspective of the average puppy buyer. Ads that cover health testing, availability (number of pups and dates of when ready) and home suitability[/i] (showing, working, family pet, etc) and cost are much more helpful then an ad that just reads "puppies available, contact for more info."

I agree with wings, too. Information about how the puppies are raised... like exposure to children & home life tells heaps to a pet owner trying to match with their lifestyle. Brief comment about how parent dogs & kept & socialised, too. Plus any specific means of owner support. Some breeders write, 'Puppy comes with .....'.

Recently, I put a good family, with a 3 yr old girl, on to Dogzonline ads, looking for a particular breed. They got back to me saying how delighted they were that the very first ad, highlighted the fact that the breeder's adult dogs & puppies were raised in a homestyle way, alongside children. Pure gold info, the family said, in regard to what they were looking for.

Edited May 2, 2013 by mita

[Steph M]

From my point of view, who knows nothing much about showing etc, i would like to see something like a heading for each breed, with a list of health testing that should be done for the particular breed, then next to each breeders puppy ad, ticks or cross's as to which test they have done, or not done.

This would at a glance, for newbies be easy to see what problems may occure in their chosen breed, and who is health testing for it.

I suppose it depends on the market DOL wants to attract, if its too complicated to understand ( sire, dam, health tests that no one knows what they mean in laymans terms) it makes purebred dogs too hard to understand and joe bloggs backs away. Surely the aim is to make pure bred dogs more accessable to the public to get them out there?

Just to poke my nose in as a total newbie/puppy buyer, I think this is a great start. I looked through the breeders pages when I was looking and spoke to several who appeared good, but really, what would I know? I ended up speaking to the secretary of the breed club and finding I was quite off the mark, in terms of quality.

I guess the reality is it's not purely catering to people who know their stuff and know the circles, any extra info you can find and add to your shortlist helps miles if you're a bit of a newbie. I see the purpose, I don't know much about the politics or implications outside this, just poking my nose in.

I'll be off now! :laugh: