Proposed Puppy Ad Changes

[inez]

Think of the bright side. If there is one in this, that is.

Looking at the tumbling in member numbers of the purebred breeders and puppies bred, e.g. 60,000 for 2012 in a population of over 24 million Australians.

I don't know what the rescue figures were for 2012 but wasn't the figure for 2010 170,000 dogs surrendered Australia wide?

Is it that I have developed a somewhat? Warped sense of humour that if every purebred puppy of 2012 were surrendered to a pound there still 110,000 goodness knows whats, bred by goodness knows who, still being bred?

Tom Waterhouse loves to take bets. Wonder what odds he would give on bets as to which year Dogzonline will no longer have any purebred owner members because they cant find a registered purebred puppy to replace their oldie?

All you need to work it out is follow the timeline already available for the past 20 years of registrations. Although towards the end it will be a freefall so probably the real answer will be five years either side of my suspected year I would put my bet on.

So when that happens, will the logo change from "Australia's pure breed dog community" to "looks like a purebred" or just quietly fade off the net?

http://dogsnsw.org.au/members/noticeboard/517-attention-all-members-of-dogs-nsw-.html

Before anyone starts comparing me to Henny Penny and the sky is falling down.

How many have read this little missive from Dogs NSW?

Dear Member, every single one of you.

“We are fighting for our very existence! You must join us in this fight!”

The Companion Animal Taskforce Reports to the Ministers for Local Government and Primary Industries include a number of recommendations which are opposed by a large number of members of Dogs NSW, particularly those who are breeders. The implications are very significant and, even for those Members who are not breeders, it could severely restrict the availability of pure bred puppies, with which you can pursue your hobby activities as a show exhibitor or trialler, with your breed of choice. There is a very real potential that some breeds with relatively restricted gene pools could be totally wiped out.

The opposition to certain recommendations in the reports was voiced loudly and clearly by many hundreds of Members at two Special Meetings held over the past week to assist members in understanding the possible consequences of a number of the recommendations being conveyed into binding legislation.

In response to the overwhelming concerns expressed by Members leading up to and at those Meetings, the Board of Directors have appointed a Steering Committee to develop and implement the strategy for responding to the Reports. This Committee draws on the extensive knowledge and experience of a number of our Members and, as President, I sincerely thank each one of them for making their considerable time available to assist the company and its Members in this task.

We have also necessarily engaged external expertise in areas where it is urgently required.

The purpose of this particular article is to alert you to one of the important ways which are available for members to respond to the recommendations. It is the Feedback Form provided by the Division of Local Government on their website.

The way it has been set up by the Division, it is expected that most respondees will in fact do so online. They cannot however reject submissions which are made by Members who do not have access to the Internet and that could still apply to several thousand of our Members given that we only hold email addresses for 7000+ of our 10,000+ Members.

Edited May 1, 2013 by inez

[inez]

Do not make the mistake of thinking it is only the "rare" breeds that will dissappear.

You can see a maltese just about every day, where ever you go.

Yet only 200 were registered in 2012.

So what are the odds of even one of them being a limit or main registered "purebred"?

There will be plenty of purebred puppies to be found. They just wont be bred by any members of a Canine Council.

[minimax]

Sorry inez, what's that got to do with how dogzonline has it puppy ads?

[inez]

Sorry inez, what's that got to do with how dogzonline has it puppy ads?

Perhaps I need to type more slowly?

Troy isn't the only one who has decided to cull perceived undesirables from the ranks, As Steve pointed out the busiest tend to be other breeders, So Troy's idea although appearing admirable can also be used as Steve pointed out to eliminate even more people not necessarily undesirable but certainly not liked by another breeder, perchance did you miss the reason for omitting the requirement all breeders must be members of their breed club?

so my question is relevant

I am asking what year you think we will see NO one with a purebred to advertise on Dogzonline.

Edited May 2, 2013 by inez

[bridgie_cat]

why try to remove/limit people breeding that are not involved in an ANKC activity? It is nice if they ARE as they are out there doing something fun with their dogs, but they can be very separate activities and still done well if people are not into showing/performance but still want to select well conformed animals with good temperaments through research and discussion etc.

[dog_fan]

Yet another organisation that wants to police breeders.....soon breeders will give up breeding due to too much unnecessary interference. This policy clearly identifies this site as being an ANKC site interested in only ANKC breeders who show...so really it has become a show breeders site, all other breeders not welcome.

[minimax]

Yet another organisation that wants to police breeders.....soon breeders will give up breeding due to too much unnecessary interference. This policy clearly identifies this site as being an ANKC site interested in only ANKC breeders who show...so really it has become a show breeders site, all other breeders not welcome.

I can't find anywhere that says that, are you looking at the same link as everyone else?

[Jed]

2 years. After they are criticised, casticated and talked about behind their backs endlessly by their peers because they used the dog they did. And the public doesn't have a clue about whether the parents are good or not.

As far as the dog world imploding - if these regs in Vic and NSW are made law, and second degree matings are banned - 5 years; if not, 10 years

There are hardly any purebred dogs in most breeds available now. Every time some new obstacle comes along, a few people walk off.

When it is all done,the world will blame the breeders themselves because there are no purebred dogs, but they left because it was too hard.

Edited May 2, 2013 by Jed

[JRG]

As a breeder of working gundogs, I would point out that not all of us chase titles for our dogs and some of us actually go to great lengths to seek out stud dogs from among the non titled population because such dogs can and do work hard and long for their living and can also improve the range and breadth of the gene pool. When selecting a stud or bitch, titles are "extras" as far as I am concerned and often not desireable extras.

[Troy]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

I think however some people are blowing things way out of proportion and are thinking I am immediately going to remove everyone who doesn't show etc. There has also been ridiculous scaremongering comments on facebook that the ANKC need to be wary of Dogz Online as it has too much power and will soon start it's own registry and wipe the ANKC out of existence.

Please highlight in the proposal where I say if you do not show, you cannot advertise?

I do realise that the public needs to be able to easily buy pure bred puppies and this is one of the main reasons why I have resisted doing anything before now and never have had any restrictions on who could advertise. Despite constantly getting emails over the years complaining that I need to only allow 'show breeders etc' on the site, I have always known that these breeders do not always have a litter available (and what's more, this is no guarantee of a good breeder). If it comes to the point where DOL never has any puppies available for a breed, it does no-one any good long term. If visitors abandon the site, it will be no use when a 'show' breeder need to advertise a litter.

Comments saying I will contribute to wiping out pure bred dogs are again, just scaremongering. Over the thousands of breeders that are listed on the site, I would say there would only be a very, very small percentage that could possibly be removed.

As for leaving ourselves open to complaints, we already gets complaints daily so I can't see any change there. It doesn't mean we remove the breeder. We give more value to complaints from puppy buyers rather than other breeders as we want the puppy buyer to have a good experience. One complaint from a puppy buyer doesn't mean they will be removed either. If we get multiple complaints however then we know there is an issue.

My aim to to give as much information as possible to the puppy buyer so they can make an informed choice.

In the proposal, I say 'recognition' will be given to breeders who do some form of activity. Recognition could mean anything as basic as a symbol on the listing. This is for the benefit of the puppy buyer.

As for comments about us policing breeders and more regulations etc, we are not a regulatory body, we are an private advertising site and like most businesses, we have 'terms and conditions' for the use of that business. If people do not like what we have planned, they simply don't need to use our site. They can then still breed how they like and how many litters they like and there are multiple other places where they can easily advertise. We realise that we will lose some members.

I have taken on board the concerns about listing the sire and dam and will consider that further. The reason given of the owner of the sire not wanting the others know that the sire has been used doesn't seem to make sense though if the litter is going to be published in the journal eventually and they will find out anyway.

As for listing of health testing done, it will encourage breeders to do the appropriate testing and raise the standards for pure bred dogs overall. When buyers know that breeders are doing everything possible to ensure their puppy will be as healthy as possible, I see that as a good thing.

Putting a limit on the number of ads is also a good thing and gives more equitable use of our site to the breeders who breed one litter a year and a breeder who breeds 10 litter a year.

[inez]

2 years. After they are criticised, casticated and talked about behind their backs endlessly by their peers because they used the dog they did. And the public doesn't have a clue about whether the parents are good or not.

As far as the dog world imploding - if these regs in Vic and NSW are made law, and second degree matings are banned - 5 years; if not, 10 years

There are hardly any purebred dogs in most breeds available now. Every time some new obstacle comes along, a few people walk off.

When it is all done,the world will blame the breeders themselves because there are no purebred dogs, but they left because it was too hard.

It doesn't help either that entire litters are on limit register save the pup the breeder keeps for them self or a friend. No more do breeders encourage newbies or is there the welcome attitude that once was the norm 40 years ago. I know it only says I have been a registered breeder for 25 years + but it is quite amazing to remember how nice people were when I bought my first pup compared to the gauntlet of fire that awaits the one who dares to ask for a main register pup today.

There is hardly a kennel that will sell anything other than a "pet only" limit register pup to be found.

I recently checked up on the proud owner of one of my pups who was well on his way to his champion, to discover the marriage had broken up so had to rehome he and the bitch she had to found her kennel. To my great dismay both have been desexed and rehomed to pet home, her reason? Because after exposure to the 'show' world she "couldn't bear her babies might end up with someone to who the ribbons were more important than the dog."

I have no idea what she saw and heard at the shows attended, but a very sad indictment of the behaviour being seen there of some exhibitors, surely?

[shirra]

As for listing of health testing done, it will encourage breeders to do the appropriate testing and raise the standards for pure bred dogs overall. When buyers know that breeders are doing everything possible to ensure their puppy will be as healthy as possible, I see that as a good thing.

Agree 100%

[Sheridan]

Yet another organisation that wants to police breeders.....soon breeders will give up breeding due to too much unnecessary interference. This policy clearly identifies this site as being an ANKC site interested in only ANKC breeders who show...so really it has become a show breeders site, all other breeders not welcome.

If you're referring to DOL then perhaps you haven't realised that DOL is not an organisation but a private busines.

[OSoSwift]

At the end of the day it is Troys site, don't like it? don't use it, quite simple really :)

[SwaY]

I like the idea of a template, listing sire and dam, health testing etc.

[SwaY]

At the end of the day it is Troys site, don't like it? don't use it, quite simple really :)

Bingo !

[Jed]

Oh So Swift. Yep.

But that doesn't mean - as users, we shouldn't have input - whether it is taken into account or not.

[OSoSwift]

Oh So Swift. Yep.

But that doesn't mean - as users, we shouldn't have input - whether it is taken into account or not.

Very true, yep somethings made me think hmmmmmmm I don't get to shows and trials very often, young kids, a new boarding Business and around 750kms take care of most of that, but hey if that becomes a factor when listing litters so be it :)

[Jed]

The Courier Mail, Brisbane's biggest circulation newspaper had a couple of pages of dog and cat ads. "Everyone" advertised there. Registered Cavaliers next to Cavoodles, Boxers before Bull Arabs.

Then the CM put some rules on the advertising. You needed to say how many pups, and they charged you a % of that. There were also some other regulations. I didn't like them much, so I moved my ads away.

I looked last week at the ads and the dogs and cats were in together - in 2 columns. I think that the web took away a lot of their users, but many left because of regulations. Funny, you could advertise your ride on without any restrictions but not your pups, and these restrictions had nothing to do with health concerns.

Same deal - there are plenty of internet sites to advertise on, and if this site becomes the province of only those who show every weekend, so be it. :) Troy's decision as to where the site goes.

[Troy]

Same deal - there are plenty of internet sites to advertise on, and if this site becomes the province of only those who show every weekend, so be it. :)

You seem to keep banging that drum .... as I stated before, please show me where I stated that you need to show to be able to advertise on the site?