_PL_ Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Sares I think the point is that the proposed law hasn't actually been put in print, as you would when presenting something to..for example the senate....that kind of wording. I've met Deb and Oscar and read all I could find. But as others have said, there isn't much and was not in a format you can take to govt. And I'll put my hand up as liking the idea in principle. Currently though, there are some really scary lunatics rabidly supporting an idea they cannot possibly explain in more than 4 words. Seriously, plotting to jump over a fence at night to steal a dog because that's what you do to save them. Dog just happens to be in someone's yard, and isn't being bred from either but it's going to get saved anyway. So really I guess like so many other animal welfare issues it was the hysteria that made me back off and mind my own business. I wish them luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzy82 Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Well if you didn't keep asking the same question when it's been answered multiple then you might not get less than diplomatic answers. I'd still like you to go to FB and ask some questions so you can get banned and see for yourself :laugh: I wasnt asking the same question. I knew I would somehow get blasted for posting this thread...I was asking some innocent questions out of curiousity and get patronised for it. I was actually curious about the answers to your question, but I guess people in here can't handle being questioned about why they do the things they do. You'd think they'd be happy to explain what exactly they have against Oscar's Law, seeing as they are accusing OL of not wanting to explain stuff. And as for OL, I have never seen or heard them say anything about reputable breeders. They want to abolish puppy farms, and I can't understand why people in here would have an issue with that. We actually know the people behind OL personally, because we have done several websites for them. They are very nice, caring people. Yes, Oscar was taken illegally, but so what? Did you actually see what state he was in when they took him? And how he was treated when they had to give him back to the puppy factory? And the conditions they found him in 18 months later when they finally got him out legally? I get that people in here are protective of breeding dogs, and of course there is nothing wrong with responsible breeding. But OL hasn't targeted responsible breeding as far I can see anywhere, and there is also nothing wrong with encouraging the general public to rescue a dog instead of buying one. There are certainly enough posts on this forum about how too many dogs are killed in pounds and shelters when they needn't be. I don't get the animosity towards someone who is passionate about dogs' rights and welfare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Plenty of people have said why they don't support them, don't you like their explanations? Are you really saying people refuse to say why, go reread the thread, it's all there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Yes, Oscar was taken illegally, but so what? So what? So it's OK to live in a supposedly civilised society and break the law, or take the law into my own hands rather than just let authorised agencies deal with it? Okaaay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Fuzzy82, yes I have seen the statement many times from the OL camp re getting a dog from either responsible rescue or an ethical breeder. Of course this minor detail is seemingly unknown to some supporters because they haven't bothered reading what's in front of them. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Well if you didn't keep asking the same question when it's been answered multiple then you might not get less than diplomatic answers. I'd still like you to go to FB and ask some questions so you can get banned and see for yourself :laugh: I wasnt asking the same question. I knew I would somehow get blasted for posting this thread...I was asking some innocent questions out of curiousity and get patronised for it. I was actually curious about the answers to your question, but I guess people in here can't handle being questioned about why they do the things they do. You'd think they'd be happy to explain what exactly they have against Oscar's Law, seeing as they are accusing OL of not wanting to explain stuff. And as for OL, I have never seen or heard them say anything about reputable breeders. They want to abolish puppy farms, and I can't understand why people in here would have an issue with that. We actually know the people behind OL personally, because we have done several websites for them. They are very nice, caring people. Yes, Oscar was taken illegally, but so what? Did you actually see what state he was in when they took him? And how he was treated when they had to give him back to the puppy factory? And the conditions they found him in 18 months later when they finally got him out legally? I get that people in here are protective of breeding dogs, and of course there is nothing wrong with responsible breeding. But OL hasn't targeted responsible breeding as far I can see anywhere, and there is also nothing wrong with encouraging the general public to rescue a dog instead of buying one. There are certainly enough posts on this forum about how too many dogs are killed in pounds and shelters when they needn't be. I don't get the animosity towards someone who is passionate about dogs' rights and welfare. So if I'm passionate about something you own, it's okay for me to come and take it illegally? Because I'm passionate, and because I can look after it better than you can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirislin Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I'm all for abolishing puppy farms and if it wasn't for people trespassing on to farms, whether they be for dogs, pigs, chooks etc, we'd probably never know the horrors some animals endure. I dont support Oscars Law because I dont know alot about it/them but I'm not entirely against them exposing the cruelty that goes on that the average person on the street knew nothing about. If they've broken trespass laws I am sure the courts will deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 That's the problem PL, the supporters are pushing the don't buy line very strongly and I suspect that the OL people also believe it but don't want to say it officially. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baifra Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I support Oscars Law and all it stands for. I'm against animal cruelty in all forms and that includes the horror of puppy farms. I have a big arse Oscars Law sticker on my car and get many people asking me about it. Can only be a good thing for awareness as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Maybe you can tell us what the actual law is then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 That's the problem PL, the supporters are pushing the don't buy line very strongly and I suspect that the OL people also believe it but don't want to say it officially. Very strongly. You could be right about the unofficial policies but we're never going to know unless a 'law' is drafted. And I still want to see that happen because I do like the idea in principle (yep I know that's a repeat). At one time all supporters were asked to remove the Wantsoscarslaw from their FB middle names because some were going off like pork chops. I realise you need a huge community base to get some momentum but like with Moorook atm, it can get very muddy and emotional when everyone jumps in shouting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I support Oscars Law and all it stands for. Does that include allegedly mowing someone down with their car after breaking and entering a property to trespass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) I support Oscars Law and all it stands for. I'm against animal cruelty in all forms and that includes the horror of puppy farms. I have a big arse Oscars Law sticker on my car and get many people asking me about it. Can only be a good thing for awareness as far as I'm concerned. Badly written laws do more harm than good though. Do you know that laws were introduced in Vic which means if a bitch is a breeding bitch she can't live in your house? She needs to live in a pen with a concrete floor. These laws were well intentioned and were aimed at making sure that dogs used for breeding lived in sanitary conditions, but in reality it means that breeders who have their dogs living as part of their family are breaking the law. That is not justice. I also feel sorry for poor little Oscar - he is dragged to many huge gatherings all the time. Wee mite would be overwhelmed. ETA: I don't mind Deborah breaking the law sometimes. Often it is the only way that action is taken. Still don't support bad laws though. Edited April 30, 2013 by megan_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oakway Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I support Oscars Law and all it stands for. I'm against animal cruelty in all forms and that includes the horror of puppy farms. I have a big arse Oscars Law sticker on my car and get many people asking me about it. Can only be a good thing for awareness as far as I'm concerned. You said you support them !!!!!. Well that means you are against all the States Controlling Bodies that have legally Registered Pure Bred Breeders because Oscars Law does not differentiate between them and Puppy Farmers. You can't support both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) Maybe you can tell us what the actual law is then? Oi I bought the t-shirt :laugh: you can't blame a gal for having good intentions. Admittedly I've only had one person ask wtf it was but that's ok. I really don't wear it much because it shows off my muffin tops and currently I'm not wanting FB warriors speaking for me. Edited April 30, 2013 by Powerlegs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I like that people have good intentions don't worry :laugh: Bad laws will destroy good breeders and allow puppy farmers to thrive but the OL people haven't caught on to that yet. I can't handle that much dumb so that's another reason I don't support them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minimax Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 Maybe you can tell us what the actual law is then? Oi I bought the t-shirt :laugh: you can't blame a gal for having good intentions. Admittedly I've only had one person ask wtf it was but that's ok. I really don't wear it much because it shows off my muffin tops and currently I'm not wanting FB warriors speaking for me. I'd still really like to know what the actual law is, because there is nothing on the website - even "about oscars law" doesn't say anything about oscars law Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_PL_ Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I support Oscars Law and all it stands for. I'm against animal cruelty in all forms and that includes the horror of puppy farms. I have a big arse Oscars Law sticker on my car and get many people asking me about it. Can only be a good thing for awareness as far as I'm concerned. You said you support them !!!!!. Well that means you are against all the States Controlling Bodies that have legally Registered Pure Bred Breeders because Oscars Law does not differentiate between them and Puppy Farmers. You can't support both. You can't know who it differentiates between because there is no law and no draft. You may have seen a supporter spout off about all breeders but ask OL themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 (edited) Horrible conditions & hideous outcomes for dogs, led to those folk 'formulating' Oscar's Law. The physical, social & environmental needs of dogs are not met in puppy farming. But, look at the 3 summary aims, taken from the Oscar's Law website: Abolish the factory farming of companion animals. Ban the sale of companion animals from pets shops/online trading sites. Promote adoption through rescue groups/pounds/shelters. There's nothing there about what are the physical, social & environmental needs of dogs in any place where puppies are bred. To make a difference for dogs' best welfare, they should be spelled out & regarded as the norm. Any law or ethical guideline should support that happening. And, if not met via an objective checklist, then it's not acceptable either by law or by community standards. So, while I understand Oscar's Law folks wish to eliminate a real blot on animal welfare.... they've totally jumped over the point of what dogs need. None of those 3 aims address those needs. NOTE how law & standards set down in Ireland does exactly that (IKC website). Just a summary... I'd be spelling out those social requirements a lot more. But their emphasis on best conditions for the dogs, lends itself to an objective checklist: Maintaining a Dog Breeding Establishment In order to comply with the Act the owner or manager of a dog breeding establishment should provide accommodation and equipment which suits the physical, behavioural and social requirements of the dogs held. The owner should protect the dogs from other animals and adverse environmental conditions, provide sufficient space for dogs to stand, move around freely, stretch fully and rest, along with sufficient quantities of appropriate food and clean water to maintain good health and support optimal growth and reproduction. Owners or managers should also protect the dogs from disease, distress, injury, fear and pain, maintain the hygiene of the breeding premises and health of the dogs held, and ensure the premises is appropriately licensed under the Control of Dogs Acts 1986 to 2010. Edited April 30, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baifra Posted April 30, 2013 Share Posted April 30, 2013 I support Oscars Law and all it stands for. I'm against animal cruelty in all forms and that includes the horror of puppy farms. I have a big arse Oscars Law sticker on my car and get many people asking me about it. Can only be a good thing for awareness as far as I'm concerned. You said you support them !!!!!. Well that means you are against all the States Controlling Bodies that have legally Registered Pure Bred Breeders because Oscars Law does not differentiate between them and Puppy Farmers. You can't support both. Sure I can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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