Dogs That Dislike Puppies

[RiverStar-Aura]

I just want to preface this topic by saying that I have been in contact with K9 Pro and am currently organising a suitable time to see Steve.

Kirah, my 2 year old Aussie Terrier seems to have a hatred of puppies. If they come bouncing up and whacking her with their paws in play, she'll growl, snarl and snap. She's perfectly fine roughing and tumbling with large adult dogs, her behaviour is aimed only at puppies.

What I'd like to know, is this a common problem people have experienced?

I understand that we can't make dogs be friends, but I'm just worried she'll hurt one of these puppies who never seem to understand that no, she doesn't want to play regardless of how much snapping she does at them.

Being a terrier, Kirah won't give up either so I remove her from the situation but the puppies always keep coming back for more.

What frustrates me is that they could go play with Zeus who loves to play, but he's completely ignored and Kirah is always chosen despite her best efforts to get away.

Is there something I can do in the meantime before seeing Steve in order to help this? I don't want to avoid the dog park because we've become a community of close friends and Kirah is fine with their dogs. It's only when a new puppy comes up into her face.

Oh I need to say too that when she's carrying on, I DO NOT pick her up and when she tries to hide in my legs, I step away from her too. Is this the right thing to do?

I'm at my wit's end with this behaviour and she's otherwise such a great little dog. I'm just so angry at myself and blame myself for her behaviour in that perhaps I've done something for her to be this way.

Edited May 4, 2013 by RiverStar-Aura

[persephone]

She doesn't have to like them ... they need to learn manners! If she pushes/nips ..maybe that's what it will take for them to learn ...and their owners need to show some respect to other park users

when she tries to hide in my legs, I step away from her too. Is this the right thing to do?

...

reading this makes my first thought that of just how uncomfortable your little dog is ... and how hard it must be for her to be confronted with rude pups and be unable to escape ...and then, if she tries to be non aggressive ..you remove any safety she had ....

If she were mine .. She wouldn't have to put up with it ....

edit to say ..any rude pups/dogs not under control would be severely growled at ....by ME . Bet they wouldn't come back.!

Edited April 29, 2013 by persephone

[Salukifan]

RSA:

Oh I need to say too that when she's carrying on, I DO NOT pick her up and when she tries to hide in my legs, I step away from her too. Is this the right thing to do?

That depends on whether or not you're happy for her to deal with the puppy as she sees fit.

I'd be stepping in before that. I don't see why she should have to tolerate being bounced on by pups. If the pup's owner won't heed a polite "please keep your pup away from my dog, she doesn't like pups" then I would be stepping in to remove her before she feels the need to defend herself and snap. If she's actively seeking your legs to distance herself and hide, I'd pick her up. Ignore anyone who tells you "this will make your dog dominant". Its crap. I see myself as responsible for my dog's well being. If they aren't happy and trying to get away, I step in.

You might find reading this article useful. Personally, I don't see why we expect all dogs to love pups, when there's nothing loveable about some pups behaviour from our dogs' perspective.

I have a dog that hates puppies. He simply never gets to meet them. I don't put him in situations where I know he'll respond aggressively to warn them off. I don't blame myself or him for his behaviour. However he does have an ongoing back problem that makes him particularly wary of being physically tackled by strange dogs and he's not socially confident with any strange dog. Its just how he is

Edited April 29, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Jed]

She doesn't have to like them ... they need to learn manners! If she pushes/nips ..maybe that's what it will take for them to learn ...and their owners need to show some respect to other park users

when she tries to hide in my legs, I step away from her too. Is this the right thing to do?

...

reading this makes my first thought that of just how uncomfortable your little dog is ... and how hard it must be for her to be confronted with rude pups and be unable to escape ...and then, if she tries to be non aggressive ..you remove any safety she had ....

If she were mine .. She wouldn't have to put up with it ....

edit to say ..any rude pups/dogs not under control would be severely growled at ....by ME . Bet they wouldn't come back.!

What Pers said. Your girl doesn't like being annoyed and is looking to you for relief.

[Guest Clover]

Mine don't like puppies, and I don't expect them to not tell rude puppies off if they get "bounced" on. But I also would not put one of my dogs into that situation, for their own sake and that of the pups.

[Aphra]

My cattle dog has taught several litters of rescue puppies manners for me. In general he's a very friendly dog and enjoys the young ones, but he's quite firm with them. If they get over the top he will growl, snarl and then snap at them if they don't get the message. He never escalates the behaviour to the point of hurting a puppy, but he makes his point about manners very clear. He's really behaving very appropriately with naughty babies and although they clearly get the message and back off, they're clearly not frightened of him.

But if your dog really doesn't like puppies, rather than giving them a lesson in manners, I'd just be keeping her out of their way. Not all dogs need to get on with everyone and unless its your own puppy there's no reason why she should put up with interactions she finds stressful.

Kirah, my 2 year old Aussie Terrier seems to have a hatred of puppies. If they come bouncing up and whacking her with their paws in play, she'll growl, snarl and snap. She's perfectly fine roughing and tumbling with large adult dogs, her behaviour is aimed only at puppies.

What I'd like to know, is this a common problem people have experienced?

[hankdog]

I have a reactive dog and we believe he may have not been given an escape route when young so if not allowed to choose flight when confronted then fight is your other option. Most of the work I do with my trainer is trying to teach him to turn away from other dogs and to trust that I will always allow him to leave a situation he is uncomfortable with. I think it's good that she asks you for help by coming to you when uncomfortable and I would say it would be a good thing to always remove her from the situation. Not sure about the picking up but if you want to carry on your conversation then she will feel safe and trust you to look after her. If a dog feels it has to defend itself then they're probably going to fight.

Trust me you don't want her to feel like she has to make her own decision when confronted. Not a lot of fun trying to train them out of that mode.

Steve's an excellent trainer, I switched because its too far for me to go weekly but he's very thorough.

[espinay2]

Read this article: http://www.suzanneclothier.com/the-articles/he-just-wants-say-hi

[tdierikx]

My old girl will flatten a rude foster pup one minute, then be spooning with it in front of the heater the next... I don't intervene when she puts them in their place, because she can teach them manners way better than I can in that respect... *grin*

If Kirah is actively telling a rude puppy off in a public place, please back her up and let the pup's owner know that Kirah is behaving that way because their puppy is obviously not under effective control. Some pups are way too "friendly" with other dogs, and it may do them good to learn that not all other dogs are going to let them get away with it.

T.

[megan_]

My girl hates puppies too, so she never meets puppies. There is an appropriate way for dogs to tell puppies off, but you need to be careful that things don't escalate and a pup gets hurt. Also, if your dog has other reactivity issues (don't know if she does) then I wouldn't be encouraging any reaction as it just re-enforces "go on the offensive = dogs leave you alone". My dog is not a training tool for norty puppies - her needs come before them. Having her so harrassed that she needs to lash out isn't good for her.

If your dog is hiding behind your legs she is giving you very clear signals that she is not coping. By stepping away you are telling her she has to deal with this herself and that you can't be relied upon to help her. This is not a message I would want to give a reactive dog. The message I want to give is "I take care of trouble, so you can relax". This means stepping in and being a downright b*tch sometimes :).

Tools like "Look at That" and BAT can help here and no doubt you can ask Steve about these things.

Personally, I believe you need to step in long before things get to this and physically stop puppies (or other dogs) harrassing your dog. If I had a small dog that was being harrassed by a pup. picking them up would be an option (I don't normally pick up as it encourages other dogs to jump for your dog, but pups are smaller).

[Dame Aussie]

I agree with others, my Aussie shepherd gets grumpy with puppies that have no manners, she is a very polite girl with other dogs and she doesn't appreciate puppies jumping up in her face.

It's easy for me to handle as we don't use dog parks but if you really have to go there, I would do as others said and tell people to either control their pup or remove her from the situation yourself.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Aussie3

[corvus]

My Erik has pretty low tolerance for puppy behaviour. He is not one for contact sports with dogs he doesn't know. He is fine playing rough with them later when they are good friends, but it's all built on trust. He MUST be able to trust that when he says "please stop it" the other dog will stop. Puppies are generally not terrific at this. Particularly bully and retriever puppies. Erik is quite happy to mix with herding breed puppies who tend to be more sensitive to his signals, but bouncy, super friendly puppies that jump on his head will get driven off if I don't intervene quickly enough. It is quite difficult at times because people seem less understanding of this behaviour directed towards puppies. I have heard him called vicious before because he shouted at a puppy after about the fourth time it ran over and jumped on him. It was bigger than him and I expect it hurt. He said "Leave me alone" nicely a bunch of times before he said it more forcefully. I should have moved farther away before he got pushed too far. I try to explain to puppy owners that he doesn't like them jumping on his head. It does help sometimes, but it seems better to just limit his contact. If he yells at a puppy he will scare them. We don't know what lasting impact that might have on the puppy, but I'm pretty confident it just makes Erik less tolerant of them over time. Erik is rewarded for turning away from the puppy or making big, obvious, "leave me alone" signals that are non-aggressive. We use organic socialisation principles from BAT. I also encourage him to shelter between my legs or come behind me. It's easier to keep them off his head that way.

[RiverStar-Aura]

Oh wow. Thank you all for your helpful input. It's not actually occurred to me that it's the behaviour of the puppies who are the cause of this problem -- I was thinking that she's the one acting inappropriately. I just look at the puppies bouncing around and whacking her in the face with paws as being 'typical puppy behaviour' and not something I should discourage. I'm actually feeling pretty stupid now, because it's so obvious to me now that Kirah probably is rightfully telling these boisterous pups where to go -- I know I wouldn't appreciate being bopped around the face by anyone.

I didn't realise that her trying to hide was her looking to me for support -- I just assumed she was trying to get my approval of her actions and that it would make her worse. If its back-up and support she needs to feel safe, then I'm quite happy to provide that now. I've just been reading her behaviour so wrong -- the whole time I've just been thinking she's being a typical turd of a terrier.

I just can't believe how wrong I've been and feel bad for letting her down. I've failed in providing her safety and security and instead of trying to help, have probably made her worse. Poor girl

Knowing what I do now, I'll be happy to step in and stop the puppies from bouncing around her and whacking her face with their paws -- she can hide between my feet while I stomp and growl at the pups.

Gosh this has been a wake-up call and I'm glad I started the thread -- but I'm just sorry it's taken such a long time to address.

[blakkjackal]

This might be slightly off topic (apologies), but I never really understood why people seem to think that puppies have some sort of a magical safety barrier around them when it comes to them meeting older, possibly unknown dogs. That every dog not liking puppies is somehow "weird" or acting inappropriately. It's actually quite natural for adult dogs not to be too fond of unknown puppies; after all, as pack animals the offspring of outsiders would best be eliminated...

I don't think every dog has to be tolerant of every other dog around them, puppies or not. Heck, even all people don't get along with each other and that's just fine. I'd probably not let her around boisterous pups anymore as it's obviously very uncomfortable for her.

[melzawelza]

My girl tells puppies off when they won't stop trying to bounce all over her but it's totally appropriate and I have no issues with her doing it. It's good for the puppy to learn what is rude behaviour that won't be tolerated.

It sounds like your girl is fearful though if she's hiding between your legs, which changes things a bit. My girl isn't fearful, she's supremely confident in that situation and just won't tolerate rudeness.

[Scarlet]

I have 2 older border collies and my son has an in your face BC pup of 5 months.

Maddy will growl and snap at the pup, who rushes in and just has to lick their face and just be very persistent and rude.

Thats OK the pup will respect Maddy, give her space and later Maddy will allow a little play.

My poor Charlie just puts up with her, he doesn't like the full on face attention but he just won't grown so she gives him a hard time till he hides with Maddy and then the pup will leave him alone.

The pup will eventually settle down, after about 15 minutes but Charlie is never really comfortable in her presence. I so wish he would growl at her!

[DeltaCharlie]

Delta has no patience for puppies. You don't get a puppy license with Delta- you are expected to act in a mature manner right from the word go :)

She would never hurt them but if she doesn't like them then I need to respect that and not put her with them in the first place. If it is a new puppy in the household and they need to be brought down a notch (if we have exhausted all the dogs that like puppies and they still haven't learnt respect) then we will put her with them in the yard. She is actually great for teaching manners as she goes right through the whole range or warning signs. To begin with she moves away, then she gives them a look if they insist on following and being annoying, then she lifts her lip, then utters a low growl, then has an air snap and moves away again. Eventually it leads to a nip on the nose and lots of noise but it takes a while to get there. The puppies learn after a few encounters not to mess with her, but I don't see the point in putting her in that position if they aren't puppies she will ever see again. It just isn't fair on her if she doesn't like them and it isn't necessary.

We have another one here who absolutely hates puppies. Whip is nearly 3 and still doesn't really interact as he is still so full on it isn't fair on a dog that doesn't like it. He has been with Delta right from the start so no issue there, he leaves her alone :)

My first dog had some fear aggression issues so I made sure I learnt as much as I could before getting Delta. One of the big things that stuck in mind is to never make the dog feel like it has to use aggression to get out of an uncomfortable situation. If she is looking to you for protection then you need to step in and back her up. Otherwise she will stop looking to you for help and just get in there and do it herself.

Yes, puppies need to learn to pull their heads but not at the expense of your own dog and her comfort levels. Leave that to the dogs who enjoy it.

[Mystiqview]

Puppies need to learn to respect the older dog. The only way they can do this is exposure to the older dog.

In saying this, I am certainly not advocating aggressive behaviour by any animal. But some times puppies just need to be put in their place. There of course is also a time and place and a way to do this, and a offload dog park I don't think is the best place to do it, as there are so many outside and uncontrollable conditions which can cause adverse affects (including owners taking un necessary offence and complaining to council)

My problem with many off lead parks, is many park goers think off lead is off rules and their dog can do just about anything,including hounding and annoying other park goers. I have had someone's dog constantly harrow one of mine to hump it while the owner thinks its funny and does nothing to stop it. And also had other dogs constantly try to dominate my dog/s while the owner sits on a bench reading the paper.

There are other park goers who would not have the faintest idea about dog behaviour and others who think they know more than what they really do.

For me when I have young puppies, I always like them to meet and associate with that cranky old fart. If the matriarch puts my puppy down by just growling and even gently puts them down a tittle more, I don't mind. Of course there are limits of what I feel is acceptable and and out and out "attack" is not part of it. But in my experience, many times I have not had the old dog go that far with a young puppy.

I currently have five dogs at home. My old dogs tolerate puppies (good being a breeder) but when they are "telling puppies off" it is all noise and nothing more. Unfortunately, Some puppies need more than idle threats.

Work with Steve. He is good and would give you good advice upon seeing your dog and reading its body language. We can all offer different advice, but to give you correct advice - the behaviourist needs to assess and see the temperament of your dog in action.

[BC Crazy]

Puppies need to learn to respect the older dog. The only way they can do this is exposure to the older dog.

In saying this, I am certainly not advocating aggressive behaviour by any animal. But some times puppies just need to be put in their place. There of course is also a time and place and a way to do this, and a offload dog park I don't think is the best place to do it, as there are so many outside and uncontrollable conditions which can cause adverse affects (including owners taking un necessary offence and complaining to council)

My problem with many off lead parks, is many park goers think off lead is off rules and their dog can do just about anything,including hounding and annoying other park goers. I have had someone's dog constantly harrow one of mine to hump it while the owner thinks its funny and does nothing to stop it. And also had other dogs constantly try to dominate my dog/s while the owner sits on a bench reading the paper.

There are other park goers who would not have the faintest idea about dog behaviour and others who think they know more than what they really do.

For me when I have young puppies, I always like them to meet and associate with that cranky old fart. If the matriarch puts my puppy down by just growling and even gently puts them down a tittle more, I don't mind. Of course there are limits of what I feel is acceptable and and out and out "attack" is not part of it. But in my experience, many times I have not had the old dog go that far with a young puppy.

I currently have five dogs at home. My old dogs tolerate puppies (good being a breeder) but when they are "telling puppies off" it is all noise and nothing more. Unfortunately, Some puppies need more than idle threats.

Work with Steve. He is good and would give you good advice upon seeing your dog and reading its body language. We can all offer different advice, but to give you correct advice - the behaviourist needs to assess and see the temperament of your dog in action.

100% agree with this post :)

[corvus]

There are some dogs puppies should be exposed to and allowed to make mistakes with and some dogs that should not be expected to tell off puppies. To me it is very important that the older dog's consent be tested on a regular basis. You do this by taking the puppy away and seeing if the older dog will approach them again or move away. It's a good test for all sorts of things, and can prevent dogs from finding themselves in a situation where they are being mildly bothered repeatedly. Sooner or later, the mild bother reaches a threshold and becomes a major bother. This is why people are often surprised by their dog who 'likes' puppies suddenly going off at one. Tolerance is not the same as enjoyment.