Should The Royals Cater For Neuters?

[allie181]

There are 4 classes of neuters:

Class 15 Puppy Neuter - for neuter dogs aged six and under 12 months

Class 16 Junior Neuter - for neuter dogs aged nine and under 18 months

Class 17 Intermediate Neuter - for neuter dogs aged 18 and under 36 months

Class 18 Open Neuter - for neuter dogs aged six months or over

I have never seen classes 15-17, only ever class 18. That's fine as there are very few neuters being show. But in my opinion all Royals should at least have open neuters dogs and bitches (i.e. 18 and 18a).

Currently at Royals:

In Vic and NSW, neuters are not allowed at all.

Canberra and SA have neuter sweepstakes, however to my knowledge you can't get points for sweepstakes.

In WA only veteran neuters can be entered.

Darwin does have open neuters (classes 18 and 18a) in the Darwin Show.

How is it that Darwin is the most progressive?!?

My thoughts:

Responsible ownership should be promoted. Desexing for those who do not want to breed is a good idea, not just to prevent accidental litters but also often for temperament and health reasons (reduces cancer risk). Once a girl has a couple of litters, she should be desexed as it is the responsible thing to do and avoids lots of problems and mess for the owners if they don't intend to breed her again.

If neuters were allowed in the Royals I have no doubt it would, within a couple of years, lead to an increase in the number of neuters being shown generally as it would be seen as more accepted and prestigious and, frankly, worth the effort.

Anything that promotes desexing and educates people as to its importance is a good idea as there are far too many dogs and not enough homes, and so many people think "oh, I have a nice dog so I'll have a litter or two and make a bit of money". They have no idea that it really isn't a money making exercise and it should be left to those who are doing it only for the betterment of the breed.

Edited April 29, 2013 by allie181

[puppy_dawgs]

you say vic don't allow neuters? is that at royals or normal

Shows?

at the last few shows in vic we have had open neuter classes

[allie181]

you say vic don't allow neuters? is that at royals or normal

Shows?

at the last few shows in vic we have had open neuter classes

Just talking Royals. We've attended a few of the Vic neuter shows (although they are few and far between.)

[mirawee]

I agree completely that there should be neuter classes at the Royals

The Royals are usually the biggest opportunity to promote purebred dogs and showing to the general public but the current message being sent is that if the dog is sterilised it is "second rate" and not worth a mention in the purebred dog world!

Oh and I was told off by the steward at Perth Royal for having my 9yo veteran (sterilised) in the Veterans class as she hadn't been entered in a normal breed class! Apparently he hadn't read the rules and seen that being in a normal breed class wasn't a prerequisite but it isn't nice to be confronted by that in the ring when he tried to say my dog didn't need to re see the judge as the veterans judge had judged our breed and he wasn't re going over dogs he had already judged

[Salukifan]

Of course they should!

[Dogsfevr]

If you you want netter class fine but saying by having it at Royals it will promote responsible ownership is way off.

That implies that pet quality dogs can be shown & this is what i am against,neuter class isn't a pet show class ,It should be considered in the same status as normal shows but for what ever reason the dogs was spayed.

Yes there are dogs shown on main that shouldn't be but neuter should be encouraged for the right reason not to simply get people to turn up & i think in all fairness there are plenty of responsible people who show entire dogs & never dream of breeding

Those dogs still compete against the standard & it as such still requires breeders to be willing to transfer it to "showable" as they feel it is worthy to be in the ring not just another dog running around

[DesertDobes]

There are 4 classes of neuters:

Class 15 Puppy Neuter - for neuter dogs aged six and under 12 months

Class 16 Junior Neuter - for neuter dogs aged nine and under 18 months

Class 17 Intermediate Neuter - for neuter dogs aged 18 and under 36 months

Class 18 Open Neuter - for neuter dogs aged six months or over

I have never seen classes 15-17, only ever class 18. That's fine as there are very few neuters being show. But in my opinion all Royals should at least have open neuters dogs and bitches (i.e. 18 and 18a).

Currently at Royals:

In Vic and NSW, neuters are not allowed at all.

Canberra and SA have neuter sweepstakes, however to my knowledge you can't get points for sweepstakes.

In WA only veteran neuters can be entered.

Darwin does have open neuters (classes 18 and 18a) in the Darwin Show.

How is it that Darwin is the most progressive?!?

My thoughts:

Responsible ownership should be promoted. Desexing for those who do not want to breed is a good idea, not just to prevent accidental litters but also often for temperament and health reasons (reduces cancer risk). Once a girl has a couple of litters, she should be desexed as it is the responsible thing to do and avoids lots of problems and mess for the owners if they don't intend to breed her again.

If neuters were allowed in the Royals I have no doubt it would, within a couple of years, lead to an increase in the number of neuters being shown generally as it would be seen as more accepted and prestigious and, frankly, worth the effort.

Anything that promotes desexing and educates people as to its importance is a good idea as there are far too many dogs and not enough homes, and so many people think "oh, I have a nice dog so I'll have a litter or two and make a bit of money". They have no idea that it really isn't a money making exercise and it should be left to those who are doing it only for the betterment of the breed.

I think that the territory was the first place to offer neuter classes in Australia.

[DesertDobes]

And every show in the territory has neuter classes

[Salukifan]

If you you want netter class fine but saying by having it at Royals it will promote responsible ownership is way off.

That implies that pet quality dogs can be shown & this is what i am against,neuter class isn't a pet show class ,It should be considered in the same status as normal shows but for what ever reason the dogs was spayed.

Yes there are dogs shown on main that shouldn't be but neuter should be encouraged for the right reason not to simply get people to turn up & i think in all fairness there are plenty of responsible people who show entire dogs & never dream of breeding

Those dogs still compete against the standard & it as such still requires breeders to be willing to transfer it to "showable" as they feel it is worthy to be in the ring not just another dog running around

There are plenty of show quality dogs that find their way to pet homes. The assumption that a neutered dog is automatically of lesser quality is a wrong one, particularly in my breed where monorchidism sees quite a few pick pups out of the running for the show ring.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[mirawee]

Why does promoting responsible ownership imply pet quality dogs being shown? Or do you mean that showing neuters = pet quality dogs are shown? There are more "pet quality" dogs shown entire than in the neuter ring ;) Aren't those pet quality dogs better off being neutered regardless of whether they are shown or not?

In terms of promoting responsible ownership the number of people who are shocked when you say that at most shows only entire dogs can be shown is actually quite high :)

[DesertDobes]

If you you want netter class fine but saying by having it at Royals it will promote responsible ownership is way off.

That implies that pet quality dogs can be shown & this is what i am against,neuter class isn't a pet show class ,It should be considered in the same status as normal shows but for what ever reason the dogs was spayed.

Yes there are dogs shown on main that shouldn't be but neuter should be encouraged for the right reason not to simply get people to turn up & i think in all fairness there are plenty of responsible people who show entire dogs & never dream of breeding

Those dogs still compete against the standard & it as such still requires breeders to be willing to transfer it to "showable" as they feel it is worthy to be in the ring not just another dog running around

There are plenty of show quality dogs that find their way to pet homes. The assumption that a neutered dog is automatically of lesser quality is a wrong one, particularly in my breed where monorchidism sees many a pick pup out of the running for the show ring.

My boy was the pick and then was monorchid. I've had a few judges say "he's neuter? What a shame" but having a neuter was a great intro for me into showing. I would love to show him in a royal and I'm not interested in breeding so it all worked out for the best.

[Salukifan]

Why does promoting responsible ownership imply pet quality dogs being shown? Or do you mean that showing neuters = pet quality dogs are shown? There are more "pet quality" dogs shown entire than in the neuter ring ;) Aren't those pet quality dogs better off being neutered regardless of whether they are shown or not?

In terms of promoting responsible ownership the number of people who are shocked when you say that at most shows only entire dogs can be shown is actually quite high :)

And those purebred puppy buyers who obey veterinary advice and desex their pups aged 6 months THEN find out they've got a good one aren't that uncommon.

Or, as happened to a friend of mine get told by the vet nurse "oh you can still have your pup desexed and show it"... glad she knew better.

[Dogsfevr]

Why does promoting responsible ownership imply pet quality dogs being shown? Or do you mean that showing neuters = pet quality dogs are shown? There are more "pet quality" dogs shown entire than in the neuter ring ;) Aren't those pet quality dogs better off being neutered regardless of whether they are shown or not?

In terms of promoting responsible ownership the number of people who are shocked when you say that at most shows only entire dogs can be shown is actually quite high :)

I am saying that too many people say neuters should be shown but very few post that neuters should still meet the breed standard.

There are people who do only show quality dogs but i can tell you now many people do also see this class as a stepping stone to "practice" .

Neuter class shouldn't be considered a practice class if the dogs meet the breed standard go for it ,new handlers whether netutered or not should be showing good examples .

I have heard people talking at shows with other exhibitors saying maybe the breeder will change to neuter & you can have a try at showing when it is very obvious it isn't show quality .

We have like all good breeders sold good showable pets & they are all spayed & yes if the dog was something we would personally show we would consider it but in our breed pets have a very different coat work to show dogs .

I have no issues with neuter aslong as people promote it for the merit it deserves not just a case of getting more numbers in the ring at the expense of those owners/handlers

.

After all neuters can be no awarded .

[angelsun]

Neuter class shouldn't be considered a practice class if the dogs meet the breed standard go for it ,new handlers whether netutered or not should be showing good examples .

Yes, but in the end, the judge must decide if the exhibit is worthy of challenge points...the SAME as in the regular classes. We see MANY substandard dogs (entire) shown in the regular classes by newbies...why would this be considered any different than showing a neuter? In the end, the judges give the points...the people either accept their dog isn't up to snuff, or they don't.

[Dogsfevr]

Neuter class shouldn't be considered a practice class if the dogs meet the breed standard go for it ,new handlers whether netutered or not should be showing good examples .

Yes, but in the end, the judge must decide if the exhibit is worthy of challenge points...the SAME as in the regular classes. We see MANY substandard dogs (entire) shown in the regular classes by newbies...why would this be considered any different than showing a neuter? In the end, the judges give the points...the people either accept their dog isn't up to snuff, or they don't.

Exactly & that is what i said ,if we won't show in the main ring why should one send a novice in the neuter class.

Poor dogs in either class should be no awarded but i do now people who give the impression to novices that neuter is more forgiving & that is very misleading .

Novices deserve to show quality in either class .

[allie181]

Neuter class shouldn't be considered a practice class if the dogs meet the breed standard go for it ,new handlers whether netutered or not should be showing good examples .

Yes, but in the end, the judge must decide if the exhibit is worthy of challenge points...the SAME as in the regular classes. We see MANY substandard dogs (entire) shown in the regular classes by newbies...why would this be considered any different than showing a neuter? In the end, the judges give the points...the people either accept their dog isn't up to snuff, or they don't.

Agreed!

[mirawee]

Neuter class shouldn't be considered a practice class if the dogs meet the breed standard go for it ,new handlers whether netutered or not should be showing good examples .

Yes, but in the end, the judge must decide if the exhibit is worthy of challenge points...the SAME as in the regular classes. We see MANY substandard dogs (entire) shown in the regular classes by newbies...why would this be considered any different than showing a neuter? In the end, the judges give the points...the people either accept their dog isn't up to snuff, or they don't.

Agreed!

Me too

Personally I would prefer to see people showing a "substandard" dog as a neuter than showing it as an entire and then breeding from it... It is the judge's choice to award and if it doesn't meet the standard then it shouldn't be. There are entire dogs who are titled who have highly undesirable faults - that is the fault of the judges not of the person showing.

[darwinroyal]

We had to fight for the Darwin Royal to have Class 18/18A. The timing of the Neuter classes was about the same time as the Trial classes went from three levels to four. Thankfully, even with our low entry numbers, Neuters were already supported throughout the NT. I really take my hat off to the affiliates that were already supporting the class, and continue to do so. It helped that we had several sponsors willing to support the Class. In the beginning there were no points or Championship to aspire to.

As a steward I have also heard Judges lament 'what a lovely specimen', however they understand there are many reasons why one of our furfamily needs to be desexed. I am particularly pleased to see how many of our experienced exhibitors go on to show their desexed dogs alongside their entires. Despite our low numbers I have seen some stunning dogs in the Neuter class.

The Royals are our best opportunity to demonstrate the dog fancy to the general public. At the very least the Open Neuter class should be offered.

[allie181]

We had to fight for the Darwin Royal to have Class 18/18A. The timing of the Neuter classes was about the same time as the Trial classes went from three levels to four. Thankfully, even with our low entry numbers, Neuters were already supported throughout the NT. I really take my hat off to the affiliates that were already supporting the class, and continue to do so. It helped that we had several sponsors willing to support the Class. In the beginning there were no points or Championship to aspire to.

As a steward I have also heard Judges lament 'what a lovely specimen', however they understand there are many reasons why one of our furfamily needs to be desexed. I am particularly pleased to see how many of our experienced exhibitors go on to show their desexed dogs alongside their entires. Despite our low numbers I have seen some stunning dogs in the Neuter class.

The Royals are our best opportunity to demonstrate the dog fancy to the general public. At the very least the Open Neuter class should be offered.

That's interesting to get your thoughts given you fought for it in Darwin. We are considering a similar 'fight' in Melbourne, which was why I posted this poll to get some opinions. If you have time, could you PM me and tell me how you went about it? e.g. did you get a petition going? Thanks!

[darwinroyal]

No need to go to PM. I probably gave a false impression with using the word ‘fought’.

The history, and I don’t have the dates in front of me, involved the introduction of the Jumping Classes in Agility.

We moved from 3 classes in Agility to 6 classes representing Agility and Jumping.

Then was the progression to four classes in Agility and Jumping. Therefore what was just Agility went from 3 classes to 8 classes.

The Show Ring wanted to introduce the Open Neuter Class for the Royal. The RASNT were already coming to grips with the extra classes in the Trial ring and declined the suggestion for a couple of years. Once the Trial Ring settled into their new classes we were able to socialise the idea again, based on the support throughout the NT, and were successful.

Given the very small numbers we have, and the extra effort we make to ensure the Show and Trial rings can survive side-by-side, we have been happy with the outcome.

Now we have commenced ideas on how we can introduce Rally-O. It has already been two years without success, but we continue to talk about how it may happen.

A Royal is a balancing act with keeping exhibitors, the general public, sponsors, and particularly the RAS, happy.