Agility Contact Poll

[aussielover]

Just out of interest...

Please answer honestly!

I currently am training 2o2o standning but am having an issue in trials. She will still make the contact but not actually do the correct position. I am naughty though and will let her continue if she is going clear. I will make her redo it if she's already DQes or had a fault.

Am thinking of also changing the 2o2o to a drop position, still 2o2o but in a drop so she actually has to stop and physically change position. But I guess whatever you choose consistency is key, and its never going to be good if you let them get away with not doing it properly in a trial!

[Sayreovi]

I do running contacts with my girl and too date she has never missed a contact either at training or comps even from a distance, it's the one thing I can count on :)

My boy I also do running but he is more the point and pray, can't do from big distance either. I don't take him back as there is no real criteria for him (bad I know ) and I've spent so long trying to make him happy in the ring again, he would shut down in a flash if he thought he did something wrong.

[sheena]

With my older girl I taught 2o2o standing & she makes the contact 100% of the time in trials, though if I want her to keep running I just release her as she hits the contact. Problem with this is that it slows her down as she doesn't know what I am going to call for, but at least she gets her contacts. The young guy, we have taught running contacts with the "box" method & he gets his Aframe contacts 100 % but is not so good on the others so we think we might teach him 2o2o on all other contacts except the Aframe.

I would never call them back to redo a contact in a trial.

Edited April 28, 2013 by sheena

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

some people ask their dog to do 2o2o with nose touches to the ground - which gives the dog one more criteria to get right so usually the bit that goes to hell is the nose touch but the rest of it is good enough and then they work on getting the nose touches back in training.

Personally I can't bring myself to ask my dog to smash her nose into the ground so we're trying for running contacts. Except for the seesaw and then I will ask for 4 on.

[megan_]

The theory with nose touches is you get a nice line for their spine. Dogs that don't nose touch tend to look up and their spine is curved in an unnatural way, especially on the aframe.

Whether I run on or stop depends on the dog. For some dogs, repeating is very demotivational and the contact becomes a punishment.

[DeltaCharlie]

I answered 3 different ones for the first one because I leave that part up to the dog. I teach a 2o2o, however, I let the dog decide the most comfortable position to achieve that. I figure that if the dog is in the position that feels most natural to them, they are less likely to push the boundaries and break their position. So, as long as you maintain the 2o2o criteria, what you do with the rest of your body is up to you :) Charlie stands, Delta drops, Whip drops but moves into a sit if I make him wait too long.

I teach a 2o2o with all my dogs as I want that as a fallback if need be. A number of overseas instructors have advised teaching it before venturing into the world of running contacts with a high drive dog as you need something to fall back on at times. If you start with a running it is much harder to teach a stopped and keep both performances as optimal.

A running contact is not simply a contact where the dog runs through without stopping. With a true running contact the dog is taught to accelerate down the down ramp towards the next obstacle, not maintain the same pace and certainly not slow down. A dog that is taught a stopped contact knows that at some point they will need to stop, so even a quick release would never be faster than a true running. Perhaps the speed over the obstacle itself would be the same if you have a dog that stops at the last second, but the speed to the next obstacle will be faster as the running dog is already accelerating, if that makes sense.

I maintain a very strict criteria with Delta and Whip, Charlie was never really taught properly in the first place and rarely runs in anything but jumping as he hates weaves. I have blown many a run for unacceptable contact performances, regardless of whether we are going clear or not. My theory is, it is my job is to give the dog adequate direction out there, it is their job is to perform the obstacles correctly. If they can't do that, then they don't get to play.

Whip is still a very inexperienced dog so there are occassions where he gets to remain on course. Eg if I didn't set him up correctly on approach to a contact and he couldn't get his body sorted enough to get the position, but tried as hard as he could. Or if it is slippery and he just slides too far trying to stop. I am not going to crucify him for that if I have never trained him in the wet. In these instances I would still ask for a lie down on the grass, so that there is still a consequence and he isn't rewarded by allowing him to continue the momentum. If he just fails to get his body sorted for whatever reason, then that is his fault however. At the moment he is pushing to early release, which will see him marched off the course in a trial. He has incredibly good contacts and there is no way I am going to allow them to be compromised. If he really badly misjudges an A-Frame or seesaw, I will usually ask the judge if they mind us repeating it before we leave. I don't do the whole speedy lead up to it, that is for training at home, I just want to remind the dog of its job and then we walk out after a quick pat.

With Delta, there are no exceptions to the rule whatsoever. She is a masters dog with exceptional contacts so I will not accept anything less than that. I know of people with very experienced dogs who will say things like"I let them keep going because they tried really hard to get into position but they had lost control over the apex". As far as I am concerned, you are trained, you know how to perform the obstacle, if you lose control over the apex well then you had better work damn hard to still get your position and next time remember to maintain better control over the obstacle. She is walked instantly off a course for any of the following:

- Not stopping in a 2o2o (includes coming to a stop on the grass after sliding through contact zone)

- Not waiting for a release word regardless of how long I have left you there

- Seesaw flyoff.

I gave her a little bit of leeway initially with the weesaw if she still performed it safely and correctly but landed on the grass. She is now very good at it, although she occassionally gets bounced off the full height seesaw in ADAA in her first run until she remembers to adjust. Not having access to both seesaw heights to train makes it a bit harder so she generally has a bit of an allowance for the first run of the day if we have changed between ANKC and ADAA, provided she does perform it properly and safely. She usually bounces off the end and looks at me with such surprise and an "I'm really sorry Mummy" look on her face :laugh: After the first run, however, she is expected to know the difference and in all honesty she has never had an issue in the second run.

As far as distance goes, there should be no difference. My dogs are taught to perform the obstacle independently of me, so it should not matter where I am, their job remains the same. Even if I am running in the opposite direction, you continue along and stop at the end, awaiting further instruction. We quite often see contact obstacles in the gamble and open agility here, and even my novice dogs are expected to perform them correctly. If the dog fails to perform it correctly, irrespective of how far away I am, they are not allowed to continue running. They have a job to do, and they didn't do it satisfactorily.

The key to contacts is maintaining your criteria and being consistent. Don't make excuses for a performance or you will enter into a world of grey. Dogs are black and white, keep it that way and you will be fine. Allow grey areas and they will forever test you to see if this run is one of those ones where she will let me get away with it. They don't know when they are going clear, all they know is that today I got to be naughty and didn't have to stop. So they try it again the next run, where you might have already messed up so decide to walk them out. All you are going to do is create confusion in the dog. Next time, they bank on the 50/50 chance and push again, what you do in that run will alter that percentage further. Then maybe you start cracking down on it, and all of a sudden you end up with a dog that isn't even entirely sure what it is supposed to be doing anymore, and the contacts become this source of confusion and stress for the dog, and for you.

Edited April 29, 2013 by DeltaCharlie