Not Happy

[Rebanne]

Am I biased in my views - definitely - but the dogs I cheer on at most shows in the Neuter Class ARE past champions - why aren't they entitled to multi titles? If a dog is desexed because it has made its contribution to the breed in the eyes of its owner, yet still loves to show, why should it be excluded???

Plenty of titles to work towards on the other end of their names. Or change the rules and allow juniors to show any dog entered OR a neutered CH.

Bit hard for my daughter to put a title on the end of the dogs names when they live 4 hours apart And I don't get what you are on about either re junior handlers :confused:

[Rebanne]

any way, back on topic, yes the prize for a neuter in group/show win should be the same as any other class in group/show if all classes are getting prizes. The shows we have done in SA only baby puppy, puppy ( think it was only those two )and of course BIG and RUBIG got prizes. All got ribbons. All in show classes got something as I recall. In NSW so far we have got something each time, most shows exactly the same as other classes. A couple of Neuter in Shows were not. In Vic, same as other classes in group. Have not won a Neuter in Show in Vic yet but from what I have seen the prize was the same as the other classes in show.

[edgesmum]

Hopefully they will realise that any in group, any in show that is offered.... is exactly that....

You offer the classes, you must reward the dogs accordingly. No difference between BIG BIS and Neuter BIS.. you offer them, they are entitled to the same prizes. Most are past wonderful winners anyway, so please just acknowledge them. Cant understand if they offer the classes, why they cant deliver. !!

:)

One pretty obvious difference is the number of dogs competing for those prizes. A dog that beats hundreds of dogs for BIS is IMO entitled to a larger prize than a dog that beats perhaps 20?

Neuter in Show shouldn't be a shabby prize but it's not equivalent to BIS from where I sit. It's a class in show win.

If all the Neuter competitors are past entire Champions, I have to question why people are getting upset about it. Hardly a level playing field for someone cutting their teeth on the first dog they've ever exhibited in the neuter ring. Personally I'd like to see past entire Champions prohibited from entering neuter classes. Let it be a class where people can learn the ropes before entering the entire classes.

Mind you, I'd like to see the most junior of Junior Handlers limited to exhibiting neuters... that might improve the number and quality of neuter entries rather smartly.

Please tell me WHY a good guality dog who might have had to be spayed due to health reasons, but love to show be excluded from dong something they obviously enjoy, just because they already have obtained a title of Australian Champion, while they were entire? No hang on dont bother. Its comments like that which make me see red! I Show both entire exhibits ahd have shown a little girl who just LOVED to be in the ring, but who was neutered for health reasons and she had an absolute BALL doing it, and it made ME happy to see her enjoying herself. She had numerous Neuter in Group and Neuter in SHOW awards, and I was SO proud of her. Very sadly she has gone over the rainbow bridge, but why should these dogs be excluded if narrow minded views like this one are being voiced. I was at a show recently where th best neuter in show line up, could EASILY have been the BIS line up! The quality of neuters out there in the ring is awesome and I take my hat off to them all! KEEP IT UP GUYS!

[Salukifan]

Please tell me WHY a good guality dog who might have had to be spayed due to health reasons, but love to show be excluded from dong something they obviously enjoy, just because they already have obtained a title of Australian Champion, while they were entire? No hang on dont bother. Its comments like that which make me see red! I Show both entire exhibits ahd have shown a little girl who just LOVED to be in the ring, but who was neutered for health reasons and she had an absolute BALL doing it, and it made ME happy to see her enjoying herself. She had numerous Neuter in Group and Neuter in SHOW awards, and I was SO proud of her. Very sadly she has gone over the rainbow bridge, but why should these dogs be excluded if narrow minded views like this one are being voiced. I was at a show recently where th best neuter in show line up, could EASILY have been the BIS line up! The quality of neuters out there in the ring is awesome and I take my hat off to them all! KEEP IT UP GUYS!

Well, I'd have tried to explain but given your self confessed red haze and my reportedly narrow mind, what's the point.

Ask yourselves what the point of neuter exhibits is. I see it as somewhat different in purpose to allowing existing exhibitors to put another title on their dogs. My narrow mind I suppose.

Maybe we need an 'amatuer owner" class like some horse breeds have to give ADULT new handlers a soft entlry into the dog world. Hate to break it to you but IMO encouraging new blood into the show world is what we need to boost numbers, and yet we put all out efforts to date into mostly the next generation of the same families.

In the USA, in Quarter Horses, some of the most committed, most cashed up and hardest competing exhibitors haven't swung a leg over a horse until they aged over 40. What does the dog world do to encourage new adult handlers? *insert crickets sound here*

Edited April 28, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Rebanne]

In the USA, in Quarter Horses, some of the most committed, most cashed up and hardest competing exhibitors haven't swung a leg over a horse until they aged over 40. What does the dog world do to encourage new adult handlers? *insert crickets sound here*

Nothing but it didn't stop me and now neuter class has helped get my adult daughter involved.

[allie181]

My pet peeve is that neuters are not catered for in the Royals (at least not the Royal's i've looked at - Vic, SA, NSW). Why not?!?

Responsible ownership should be promoted. Desexing for those who do not want to breed is a good idea, not just to prevent accidental litters but also often for temperament and health reasons (reduces cancer risk). Once a girl has a couple of litters, she should be desexed as it is the responsible thing to do and avoids lots of problems and mess for the owners if they don't intend to breed her again.

If neuters were allowed in the Royals I have no doubt it would, within a couple of years, lead to an increase in the number of neuters being shown generally as it would be seen as more accepted and prestigious and, frankly, worth the effort.

Anything that promotes desexing and educates people as to its importance is a good idea as there are far too many dogs and not enough homes, and so many people think "oh, I have a nice dog so I'll have a litter or two and make a bit of money". They have no idea that it really isn't a money making exercise and it should be left to those who are doing it only for the betterment of the breed.

Edited April 29, 2013 by allie181

[Rottshowgirl]

Allie 181, Adelaide Royal this year has Neuter Dog & Neuter Bitch as classes in Sunday Specials day :)

[Rebanne]

My pet peeve is that neuters are not catered for in the Royals (at least not the Royal's i've looked at - Vic, SA, NSW). Why not?!?

Neuters aren't catered for at a lot of shows, I have no problem with no neuters at Royals. One day it will come in.

[Rebanne]

Allie 181, Adelaide Royal this year has Neuter Dog & Neuter Bitch as classes in Sunday Specials day :)

had them last year as well but they are a special class not one you can get points in are they not?

[allie181]

Thanks Rottshowgirl, I'll have a look at that :)

[mirawee]

A Neuter IG or IS should get the same prize as any other Class IG or IS. There is no such thing as a Neuter BIS so it should not be compared to a BIS win in terms of prizes :) At the moment with the majority (all?) Clubs only offering Open Neuter, an Open Neuter in Show award is the equivalent of a Neuter BIS but if the other neuter classes were offered there would be no competition between neuters from different classes except at breed level :)

Saying that I can't remember the last time in WA where we have gotten a prize for a Class in Group - we are usually thankful when we get sashes as even they aren't given out at many shows :laugh: A few Clubs have started giving out BOB prizes though :D I have got a few nice engraved pens and even a small calculator

Im not sure flying East this year i will spend (cough cough ) over $3000 to get the kids to shows & that doesn't include all the other stuff ]

Except if you were taking horses not dogs you would be looking at around $10,000 - for 1 horse!

[Dogsfevr]

Mind you, I'd like to see the most junior of Junior Handlers limited to exhibiting neuters... that might improve the number and quality of neuter entries rather smartly.

What an insult to our junior handlers

[Salukifan]

What an insult to our junior handlers

Why? What would be so insulting about restricting handlers under 10 to neutered dogs?

Edited April 29, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Trisven13]

But what is the advantage of junior handlers under 10 showing a neutered dog? Doesn't that disadvantage the junior handlers under 10 if they don't have a neuter dog to show?

[SwaY]

If the entry fee is the same, the prize should be.

[Rottshowgirl]

What an insult to our junior handlers

Why? What would be so insulting about restricting handlers under 10 to neutered dogs?

Why should young kids who are outstanding in their handling skills and able to go into the breed ring be restricted in that way?

I don't understand what that would achieve?

[Salukifan]

What an insult to our junior handlers

Why? What would be so insulting about restricting handlers under 10 to neutered dogs?

Why should young kids who are outstanding in their handling skills and able to go into the breed ring be restricted in that way?

I don't understand what that would achieve?

It would achieve a higher degree of safety for those very young child handlers who aren't outstanding in their handling skills - and for those of us who have to manage our dogs around them.

We can debate the wisdom of 7-10 year old children in the breed ring another time.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[Trisven13]

We can debate the wisdom of 7-10 year old children in the breed ring another time.

BUT you raised it here and now. And have consistently failed to answer my questions.

[Salukifan]

We can debate the wisdom of 7-10 year old children in the breed ring another time.

BUT you raised it here and now. And have consistently failed to answer my questions.

Start a topic on it Trish and I'll be happy to discuss my views. They are safety based. I'm talking in an all breeds context by the way. We have no restrictions on what breed t a child handler can take into the breed ring and I'm no fan of relying on common sense to sort the issue out.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Maybe we need an 'amatuer owner" class like some horse breeds have to give ADULT new handlers a soft entlry into the dog world. Hate to break it to you but IMO encouraging new blood into the show world is what we need to boost numbers, and yet we put all out efforts to date into mostly the next generation of the same families.

In the USA, in Quarter Horses, some of the most committed, most cashed up and hardest competing exhibitors haven't swung a leg over a horse until they aged over 40. What does the dog world do to encourage new adult handlers? *insert crickets sound here*

I have nothing to say about junior handlers, but I agree with the crickets on the subject of new adult handlers. I know I've said before that double income no kids couples who love dogs and have a bit of a competitive streak are great candidates for boosting numbers. They've got the money and the time to put into it.

That said, I think there is already a class that could be used for them (eg, Limit) but because it's perceived as a "losers" class people tend not to support it when it is offered.

As for the original topic of the thread, when we run neuter classes the neuter in show gets the same prize as the class in show winners. They don't get the same value prize as the BIS and I think that's fair. If they start to compete seriously with numbers and are therefore financing half the show, then I would revisit that.