Barriers To Formal Behavioural Assessment

[Cosmolo]

On occasion i look through the urgent rescue section and the variation in the way dogs are assessed always gets my attention.

I would love opinions from everyone with regards to what barriers or constraints you feel impacts yours or anyone elses ability to conduct formal behavioural assessment.

Lack of training?

Belief that it is not needed/ in best interests of the dogs in question?

Lack of time?

Lack of co-operation from pounds/ shelters?

Lack of appropriate equipment?

[mixeduppup]

I have great pound cooperation, I find the hardest thing is for the dogs that have been there a while before I can get the pound and they're so hyped up from being kenneled that I can't get an accurate read on them as they've gone a bit kennel crazy.

[tdierikx]

Probably a bit of a mix of all of your points Cosmolo... plus the fact that no-one volunteering to assess dogs in a pound environment wants their assessment to be used against them if the dog behaves differently in a different environment.

What needs to be understood about most of the assessments being done and noted here - they are a guideline for experienced rescuers to get a basic idea of how that particular dog reacts in a stressful environment like a pound. None of the assessments should be taken as a perfect summation of how the dog will be outside of that environment. As long as the assessments are taken in the vein of how they are offered here, then all should be good.

T.

[Burkes]

Probably a bit of a mix of all of your points Cosmolo... plus the fact that no-one volunteering to assess dogs in a pound environment wants their assessment to be used against them if the dog behaves differently in a different environment.

What needs to be understood about most of the assessments being done and noted here - they are a guideline for experienced rescuers to get a basic idea of how that particular dog reacts in a stressful environment like a pound. None of the assessments should be taken as a perfect summation of how the dog will be outside of that environment. As long as the assessments are taken in the vein of how they are offered here, then all should be good.

T.

Its a good point that T has made. As one of groups doing testing on a regular basis we cop a lot of rubbish from volunteers and other rescue groups because we have written what was witnessed on the day and it ends up being different in care or 'well he wasn't like that when I was shovelling treats down his face in the yard'.

We copped a spray on a rescue facebook page in the last month because we had noted that a dog had growled at handlers and had tried to bite a ranger. That was then changed to us labelling this poor sick dog as 'aggressive' and not wanting to save it. This was just not true, and just makes us wonder why we give up our time each week to get flogged by other groups. Fortunately most are pretty thankful.

Time is another big one since most of the people involved are volunteers with full time jobs. And finding people that are actually interested in learning more and getting better rather than just going through the motions. There are some people who just seem to be there so they can 'gloat', for lack of a better term, and get into the drama and sympathy that comes with the role.

[mixeduppup]

That is hard, because even if you see potential in a dog that acts fearful or aggressive you still have to write down exactly how it behaved and sometimes/quite often that can affect the likelihood of the dog being adopted, even if it's probably more likely caused by the stress of the pound environment.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

I think formal temp testing is good but must take breed into consideration.

Italian Greyhounds don't fare well in any form of tests. I set up Italian Greyhound Rescue with Indigirl in 2009. We've rescued over 50 IGs, each one of them was bullet proof with other dogs. They are not great with strangers at all, most are scared of kids and often they are not great on the lead. They cannot pass the RSPCA's temp tests and most get euthanased for timid behaviour but that IS the breed, that is the normal behaviour they exhibit amongst strangers and sometimes those they know well.

I would say that in this regard, formal temp testing is not in an Italian Greyhound's best interests.

Aside from that, I think formal testing does give you at least some idea of what a dog will do and is definitely worth it in most cases.

[keetamouse]

I always go in to the pound and see for myself if the temp notes are not in favour with some of the smalls and I understand when the testers put that the dog was snappy as some are under stress and the testers take that in to account, also I do take risks with some of them and take them home, I also understand that some new carers are not comfortable with taking a small when they don't test very well.

I had to leave one dog behind some 8-12 months ago the poor boy was just petrified and did nothing but sit right up the back of his pen and gave off some really bad vibes, he was just the type of dog that I would take and even I was not able to get near him, the poor boy did not make it.

I have faith in the testers at DAS and also the knockers are told time and time again that they report what they see "on the day" unfortunately they don't have the luxury of being able to walk the dogs outside the pound and observe them under different circumstances.

The testers do a great job week in week out and people need to trust their judgement and as we keep saying over and over again "we can't save them all"

Maree

CPR

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

Agreed Maree, I truly appreciate the great work that the DAS testers do. If you love dogs, it's very hard to know that the dog you are handling may not make it and I'm sure that nobody wants that for any dog but it is very important to be honest at what you observe. You can only go on that. It is equally important for the public to understand that there are simply not enough homes for all the homeless dogs and that even if there were, there is sadly a time limit and one may not find the other.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

ooops - double post

Edited April 25, 2013 by dogmad

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

ooops triple post

Edited April 25, 2013 by dogmad

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

ooops quadruple post ... sigh

Edited April 25, 2013 by dogmad

[juice]

I think it give's a good outline, but breeds need to be taken into account as Dogmad said.

Cattle dogs often don't test well either, i had one foster who was terrified in the pound, pee'd himself and cowered, outside he was a nutter :laugh:

Also, i am wary when someone says the dog ignore's other dogs either side of him, sometimes' this means the dog has shut down in the pound situation and is just not reacting at all.

I think more people would do it if they were given a bit of training as to what to look for etc.

I was about to say i would, but then i thought of the other hurdle........once you see them in the flesh its hard to walk away and not take them.

Edited April 25, 2013 by juice

[Aphra]

Many pounds don't really like working with rescue anyway, so would be unhappy at having to accommodate volunteers doing temperament testing, let alone doing it themselves. I think it's really the lack of people able and willing to do the work. Pounds are often not open weekends, and lots of people work full time so can't get to the pound to do the work at a convenient time.

I don't think breed is really that relevant, where there is a formal temperament assessment, I'll use that as a guideline as to whether we have space for a dog (if a dog is very reactive to other dogs we'll need a carer with the skills to handle that, for example) or how long a dog might take to rehome and how that fits with other dogs we have coming it.

I see that temperament assessment tells me some broad things about a dog which provide me with some guidance about whether it's a dog we have the capacity to take.

I have to say though, that while I might use any assessment available (which is more often than not the ranger saying, "nice dog") as a guide, once the dog is with me, I ignore the assessment and proceed with the dog as if it was an unknown quantity and start over again making assessments of behaviour and temperament. This is basically for safety as much as anything.

[Trisven13]

I don't think breed is really that relevant, where there is a formal temperament assessment, I'll use that as a guideline as to whether we have space for a dog (if a dog is very reactive to other dogs we'll need a carer with the skills to handle that, for example) or how long a dog might take to rehome and how that fits with other dogs we have coming it.

I've done temperament testing & a number of temperament testing training classes and, whilst the test (when I was trained on it) covered loads of things I truly think that the very best temperament testers also have knowledge of individual breed traits because they are very relevant. Using this breed purely as an example as it has been used earlier in this thread, I now share my home with an insanely confident and outgoing Italian Greyhound yet I can tell you right now that he would shut down in a pound - you would never believe the mental case that I live with and who my visitors get to see. There are a number of breeds who are bred to be aloof and those breeds will NEVER do well in a temperament test and if a dog is microchipped as a particular breed a good assessor should take their knowledge of that breed & its natural temperament tendencies into consideration.

[juice]

I agree totally, iggys would be a wreck in the pound.

Also Sharpie don't present well normally either.

[tdierikx]

Sharpei are usually OK once you get them out of the actual kennels... the ones I've come across haven't coped well with the confinement part of being incarcerated, but have been pretty happy to please once outside in an open area.

T.

[Cosmolo]

I agree that breed knowledge is essential. How do we ensure people conducting assessments have this though in addition to other relevant knowledge? I understand assessment has it's problems- but it's equally scary to me to see descriptions of dogs that are 'nice', 'nippy' etc with no further explanation and inexperienced people doing the 'assessments'.

The pleas that come up on my FB page at times begging inexperienced people to take dogs from the pound with no proper assessment are very worrying.

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

The pleas that come up on my FB page at times begging inexperienced people to take dogs from the pound with no proper assessment are very worrying.

I couldn't agree more, it is extremely irresponsible. Those that do it shouldn't have a Clause 16D or be operating at all.

[Aphra]

I really think that focusing on breed-specific characteristics is not helpful. The majority of dogs we get are cross-breeds, and most of the time we are making big guesses about what those breeds are, so even someone with a thorough knowledge of breed characteristics would be struggling to use that information. And dogs can vary as much within breed as between breed.

I have a lovely young dog in foster with me at the moment, he's a Whippet X Kelpie. He looks like a Kelpie, but is low-energy, calm and very quiet. A temperament assessment that looked at him in terms of Kelpie temperament wouldn't add anything useful to his description - the fact that he's a bit shy, easy going and soft-natured would be more to the point for a rescuer or an adopter.

If, as if often argued, temperament assessments are good indication of temperament, even in a pound environment, then surely it should work even for those dogs who don't present well in pounds, regardless of breed?

Of course if you rescue particular breeds then you're going to expect certain characteristics - if an assessors tests a cattle dog and says it shows barrier aggression or is reactive with other dogs that wouldn't bother me particularly because I'm a fan of the breed and that's not untypical. I might go ahead and rescue that dog knowing that it will need a bit of work and home who understands the breed. But if I were a potential adopter, that information would be useful to me because I might not be experienced with cattle dogs and not in a position to manage or understand those behaviours. So whether the assessment said the dog behaved in a manner typical of ACDs isn't relevant to me as an adopter, I just want to know about that dog's temperament and whether it will suit my family.

Edited April 28, 2013 by Aphra

[Cosmolo]

That's more what i mean Aphra- knowing whether something is typical or atypical for the breed is important for people who do take particular breeds as rescuers rather than your typical adopter.

I've never failed a dogs assessment for being timid. I have however, sent the dog to an experienced foster home to get further information, contacted breed rescues, given the dog more time, re-assessed at a later stage etc depending on the situation. When you go into assessments with the goal of finding out information there are many options at your disposal when you can't find out the required information within your normal assessment.