Ball Play? Standing Off With The Ball?

[paddles]

hmmm, so how to describe this... Milo came to me as a 12mth old, and we have had him now for 2 yrs. we have never really been able to play fetch with him, because, although he will chase the ball, and pick it up, he won't return with it. he'll come partway back, then stand off, if you walk towards him, he says "game on, chase me!" obviously I'm not that daft. with lots of work/treats etc, I've got him to return to me with the ball when on his own (provided I have treats to exchange for the ball, miss once, and then go back to stand off. I've tried walking away and ignoring him, and he tends to then just drop the ball/toy and wander off. so, this is fine, but now, my youngster and I (10 mth old gsp) are happily playing fetch, and Milo likes to take the ball and stand off. I've tried throwing different toys, but milo will just drop the one he's got and go for the new toy, and flash doesn't seem to understand that he can pick up the previous item. if Flash gets the item, he'll happily bring it back to me, but milo will get quite ?rough? in his attempts to gain the object. so, short of only having one dog in the yard with me when playing, any suggestions?

[BC Crazy]

Sorry no help to you as I can sympathise as my male BC does the exact same thing. Does retrieve the ball but only bring it back the first couple of times after that he comes half way back or not at all but wants me to chase him. I never have chased him but can't seem to understand to bring the ball directly back to me. So will follow this thread closely for some helpful clues to solve our retrieve problems :)

[minimax]

I have one dog who only likes playing soccer with a tennis ball, and one who will bring a ball back only when she wants too (usually runs after it, and then either runs in a different direction, or just runs back to me without it). But it doesn't bother me - if they don't want to play with a ball, we find another toy.

Some dogs just don't like playing fetch. Can you maybe find a game your dog does like playing? Often I'm playing tug in one hand with one dog, and playing a few games of fetch with the one who does occasionally play.

[W Sibs]

Emmy is taught to return the ball into my hand. I used clicker training for her to return the ball to me (she loves training). She loves loves playing with me, the ball/toy or game isn't what makes her excited, it's me.

Skeeter naturally love playing fetch, but if he doesn't return the ball/toy.. I simply stop playing with him and walk away and he comes over with the object and nudge me with it, of course, he gets heavily rewarded for it - either with a game of tug, treat and, of course, another game of fetch :) He learned quickly that when he brings the ball back, it's get thrown again.. if not, then game is over.

ETA: Fetch time is played separately with the dogs. Emmy doesn't play fetch if Skeeter is around because Skeeter doesn't fetch the ball, he will always go chase Emmy.

Edited April 23, 2013 by W Sibs

[ruthless]

Deleted

I should read the whole thread before I post!

Edited April 23, 2013 by ruthless

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

paddles

I have this problem a bit, but I have only one dog.

If she won't fetch the ball, I get her to do a drop, and "give" and I pack up the game. I try to reward a proper fetch - all the way back - with a quick throw to restart the game. I don't always throw the ball very far, just enough for the dog to chase and pounce. Cos my dog is much more likely to play keep away when she's a bit tired and needs a rest.

If she doesn't give the ball up immediately or doesn't bring it as close as I'd like - I pretend to inspect the ball and check it for wear and tear. If it looks like she's losing interest - I play with it like it's the most exciting thing. Or I pack the game up.

You - having a second dog to play with, can play with second dog when first one loses interest. If I had a second dog, and I was training the fetch cos it wasn't how I wanted. I'd try to park one dog in a stay on a mat or in a crate (if all else fails - in the house), and work the other dog. If the other dog did a crummy fetch - I'd swap dogs.

Nothing like a dog seeing the other dog get what they had... to fire up some enthusiasm for the game. Note - if you're not trying to fire up the parked dog - you just want it to chill until it's their turn - you need to reward the parked dog as much if not more than the working dog. With food or attention in between doing work/games with the other dog. At least until the parked dog understands that it's chilling not missing out.

[skip]

My young kelpie likes to chase a thrown ball etc and that's the fun part. She comes back but when she gets about 10 metre to 2 metres away she thinks about it getting thrown again and drops it. She is fixated on the ball, frisbe whatever, but I wanted it at my feet.

If I am just sitting in the yard she will try and dump things on my lap etc. So if I pay little attention she will return the item.

definitely not good enough and particularly doing agility where she drives to a tug/toy and instead of coming to tug immediately she fluffs around first.

To improve fetch I went to a small room to start with. I dropped a toy on the ground. She picked it up and I swapped it for a treat as suggested in another post. As the dog knows a nose touch to my hand I did a few of these and then required her to nose touch with toy in the mouth. I finally had her putting a toy in my hand. I did this in different areas until taking it outside and doing it on our walks.

Still not her strong desire to give things back but definitely improved her returns. And she makes me laugh as I ask for her to bring me something and sometimes she tosses it at me instead of putting it in my hand. Specially if she really wants me to have something.

However if other dogs are involved it gets messy. Really difficult with two at once sometimes. If another dog is playing she is more interested in that dog and not me which at times I don't like. And the dogs get possessive over the item or me.

As Flash gets older will the other dog get rougher?

Is it too much a pain to play fetch separately? I'd play fetch with the young dog only and find something else for the older one or play separately.

I sometimes let both of mine go with a longer tug toy, then it turns into a tugging game and we all play.

Interested in others ideas on your questions.

[BC Crazy]

Both of mine are so different. My girl right from 12 weeks old, I threw a ball, she retrieved it & brought it straight back & dropped it at my feet. I didn't teach her, she just did it. Must be a rubber

ball though, not a tennis ball or any other sort. She makes no attempt to chase them, just watches them go by She will retrieve a rubber ball forever as long as I throw it. But Sonny never brings

it back. So I end up going to pick it up for him. Probably where I have gone wrong...

I play fetch with both my guys at once, just take turns & they know who's turn it is cause if I by accident throw to Stella twice in a row, Sonny runs up to me & barks right at me like "that was my turn" :laugh:

[Zug Zug]

Hmm, options I can think of:

1. tether or put your dog in a crate, and fetch in front of it with another dog who fetches beautifully so your dog is watching. This is likely to trigger all kinds of excitement, which could then be translated into action when you swap the dogs over (but be careful doing that - I would keep them separate in case things get too excited or possibly possessive so be careful). For the same reason, you'd need to be very careful to ensure when you throw the ball that it doesn't accidentally go near the dog that is confined - or you could end up with the two dogs fighting over the ball which would be the opposite of what you're trying to achieve.

OR

2. have a fantastic treat available to trade for the ball once returned - show it to the dog once they've chased and got the ball and then run fast away from the dog as fast as you can, with the treat in full view in your hand (hopefully this might inspire your dog to chase you for the treat - and the ball might just make the trip in your dog's mouth without the dog thinking too hard about it). As soon as the dog arrives, they get the yummy treat (so they are likely to drop the ball to eat it) and as soon as they've finished eating you throw the ball again so they get it straight back as their ultimate reward for bringing it to you.

Actually I'd try option 2 first - then option 1 only if that doesn't work. There are some risks with option 1 so you'll have to be careful, but that is what did the trick for my young lad.

The yummy treat could be anything your dog likes more than balls. Bacon springs to mind.

Another option I've been taught previously is to teach 'hold' and 'give' as a separate thing (static, from sitting on a chair with your dog sitting in front) and then gradually build in distance so the giving is a critical part of this brand new game. To do this, I would suggest you start with a whole new object, such as a dumbbell, so the dog views it as completely new and nothing to do with the ball keep-away game they've played previously.

I hope you find a solution! Sometimes it's a lot like trial and error isn't it?

I have seen people playing fetch with 2 balls, but I think to be honest that's really just avoiding finding a solution for the original behaviour.