Help Needed With A Dog That Won't Release From A Stay

[Daisy.Tea]

My dog doesn't have the most perfect stays but we are getting better. However I am having trouble getting her to understand my release command. She has done this from a puppy where she will continue to stay after I've used my release word 'break' and looks confused. So we added in a hand signal because I didn't want me walking to become a release cue. Now I need to get her to understand the command word because she still won't 'break' with only a verbal cue. We have just started agility and my instructor noticed this when we were on the pause table and releasing her from it could only be achieved by a hand motion so she told me to work on the verbal. I've tried placing food and toys near her as an incentive to move when I say break but she is hesitant to move towards it and often will continue to sit looking at the item and me waiting for permission. I don't want to mess up her stays by having her break when I don't want to. Does anyone have any suggestions for helping train a successful verbal release? Strange problem to have...

[skip]

Not that unusual. I thought my dogs knew their release but you can test this by having the dog in position and simply say the release word with no movement at all. Many dogs do simply stay in position.

My instructor devised some exercises to teach the release. So that eventually on release the dogs would jump out of position regardless of your body movement or lack hereof.

I'd go back to the beginning again with the release word. I am not sure if the word you were using is poisoned and you should change the release word but somebody more experienced can help you there.

How did you teach the release word originally?

Pity I can't find those exercises now but I think from memory the dog is in position (sit, stay whatever). Say release and lure movement maybe with food and body movement. Continue sometimes using a lure and sometimes movement until dog understands he can move on release. Then gradually remove all movement.

Does that make sense. I'd be sure the dog gets it from sit,drop or stand in all places before putting in equipment. Hopefully your instructor gave you some help too?

I can't tell from a post but you mention your dog doesn't have the perfect stays. Maybe there is some confusion on your dogs part about the criteria of the stay. And changing your signal because the dog is confused is probably not a good idea and may have confused your dog more. We're all guilty of "helping" the dog now and again but it does come back to bite you.

You might want to ask about ways to proof your stays if you think this is what might be causing the confusion?

Lucky dogs are forgiving and you can simply retrain. Your dog gets more chance to earn more treats so he won't care. :)

I try to really make sure the dogs know that word. I used to set the dog up and then give different incorrect release words to see if the dog will break by mistake. Dogs can learn the exact word. It was really tempting to say the fake release word with less excitement or volume but that defeats the purpose. So you'd yell chair, table, fence, whatever silly word you can think of and the dog has to get it right.

We try and train the job, move it around and then test the dogs understanding, "proofing" the task.

Good luck! Hope you get some useful advice.

[huski]

Aside from stays when else do you use a release word and when you do how does she respond to it?

[Mrs Rusty Bucket]

Hi Daisy.Tea

It may be as simple as "new cue" then "old cue" so you would say "break" and then use the hand signal, and then gradually the dog will anticipate the hand signal when you say break - and go on the verbal.

Susan Garrett teaches a strong understanding of the release cue, using crate games. But it's really important to practice failure as well as getting it right or the dog will get stuck. Or generally not know the difference between what you want and what you don't want if she never gets to do what you don't want. (about 1 time in 5 attempts roughly).

I think I have confused my dog - because we're trying to teach release to a static toy at the moment and she doesn't understand the difference between release from start line (and go over obstacle in front of her) and get the toy which is off to the side. Ie she releases just fine to the thing of highest value. And I'm thrilled she will go to the toy on the ground now (previously I would have to throw it) but not when she takes a short cut to get there. And she does have value for jumps and stuff cos she offers that up when I'm setting up. Or just jumps stuff around the yard because it's there. So I'm trying to teach the difference between release and "geddit".

My release word is "go" cos that's what comes into my head but I need a new one - cos "when you're ready you may go" is what most of our judges say when they reckon you're done setting up your start line and it's time to get on with it. And hearing "ready" and "go" together like that does my head in. Fortunately dog doesn't listen to the judge. I guess "go" has become my release word too not just my dog's. I'm thinking something like "flash" might be better. "break" doesn't work for me cos SG uses it so much in conversation and evil hound does listen to her. "Ok" doesn't work because I use it too much in casual conversation. And since we've been testing getting the word right - eg trying "turkey" as a test word - evil hound has been picking out words like "pretty" in conversation - performing the "pretty" trick and getting rewarded for it (cos it's so darn cute).

[corvus]

Just out of interest, how does your dog react when she makes a mistake in training? Does she bounce back easily or does she need some coaxing to get back into it? How persistent is she? Do you use a NRM and if so, how does she respond to that? Does she tend to take risks or stick to what she knows?

[Nekhbet]

put your hand on her collar and have a treat in your hand. When you give the release command help her up quickly and shove the food in her mouth. Repeat a few times then expand to you not helping her. Unless you physically get involved you can do what you want, the dog doesn't understand what you are trying to achieve.

[Vickie]

Unless you physically get involved you can do what you want, the dog doesn't understand what you are trying to achieve.

[Cosmolo]

I like to say the release word and if the dog doesn't move toward the food or toy in my hand, dropping food on the ground can be a great way to make the reward that bit more accessible in the dogs mind and therefore help to make the connection- you said you have done this but how long have you waited for her to move? Throwing food near her after the release may help as well rather than placing it down near her. You could also pair the release word independently of a stay with her diving her nose into your treat pouch and then once she has the idea go back to doing some stays- breaking the exercise down can be very helpful.

Edited April 22, 2013 by Cosmolo

[Cosmolo]

Also, how do you normally respond if the dog 'breaks' before the release? This could be relevant.

[Kavik]

Have you tried giving the release cue, wait a second and then move (ie you run!)? You can start out with a lure (food or toy) in your hand when you move and reward with that once she moves. Once she is releasing with your movement try to test it by giving the release cue and staying still to see if she understands. Obviously a big party if she does!

Edited April 22, 2013 by Kavik

[Guest Clover]

We were always instructed to heel off before releasing the dog from a stay. But this was 15 years ago .

[Nekhbet]

Whats with the surprise face Vickie? Whats wrong with helping the dog? I didnt say ram it into a stand position just put a little pressure on the collar to help it up and reward as soon as it does. Much faster then trying to let an already confused as heck dog try and work it out, get more confused and shut down.

[PAX]

I would hope and want my dogs to understand a reward marker and a release marker clearly....no doubt in my mind that they knew it before I would start to ask for stays.

I think you need to rethink your training or get some help from someone more experienced.....no dogs want to stay....your dog must be unclear...but congrats you have if you've got solid stay:)

[megan_]

I agree with PAX. your dog might be pairing the release word + your movement = release, not just the word itself. I'd teach the word separately and make sure you move after the word has been said.

My dogs understand their release word but at agility the other day she was on the table, I realeased her but was standing still indicating the next jump. She wouldn't leave the table because she has obviously paired word + me running = release.

Try to be relaxed about it and treat breaks as not such a big deal for a little while so he feels comfortable releasing.