Hound Rescuers - Any One Have Room For An Ibizan?

[HazyWal]

I know nothing about this breed but my Maddie is a very similar build although her pin bones are only slightly visable. She is very ribby to the point where even I look at her sometimes and think geez you're skinny. She maintains a steady weight at 25kg and my vet said she looks perfect but people often comment

ETA I only have Stan to compare her to and he is a little shall we say...rotund.

Edited May 9, 2013 by stans mum

[Loving my Oldies]

I always get a bit upset when people talk about breed standards and a good weight, etc etc.

Just looking should be sufficient.

Sure some people are naturally lean and from my experience, so dogs differ in their 'natural' weight and physic.

As I said before, there is a difference between skinny and lean.

Underweight leads to all sorts of problems mental and physical...... as dogmad has pointed out.

[tdierikx]

If she were mine, I'd probably like to see a little less of her hip bones... but it's early days for her so far.

Give it a little bit of time for her to settle in and get some good food into her, and I'm sure she'll be fine.

Overall she does look to be in a pretty healthy state muscle tone wise...

Does she have a name kirty?

T.

[Salukifan]

I always get a bit upset when people talk about breed standards and a good weight, etc etc.

Just looking should be sufficient.

Sure some people are naturally lean and from my experience, so dogs differ in their 'natural' weight and physic.

As I said before, there is a difference between skinny and lean.

Underweight leads to all sorts of problems mental and physical...... as dogmad has pointed out.

Just looking at a dog with little to no body fat and a super fine coat as a normal condition is not going to be the same as just looking at most other breeds.

Most pet dogs carry too much weight. In my opinion so do most show dogs. In my experience your average pet owner has no idea what "lean" is and regard any hint of rib (when three visible ribs is quite normal) as "skinny".

A dog in good working condition should have slighly exposed hip bones.

Show most people a fit lean sighthound and most will think the dog emaciated.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[SkySoaringMagpie]

I always get a bit upset when people talk about breed standards and a good weight, etc etc.

Just looking should be sufficient.

I respectfully disagree with this. Humans are terrible at judging their own weight, the weight of others, and the weight of their animals. The biggest problem we face is overweight animals, and I agree with HW that peoples' eyes are often out when it comes to dogs, and particularly with sighthounds.

I don't really want to put them in this thread, but I do have pictures of sighthounds that are definitely emaciated. They look different to this dog.

I'll start a thread in the Health forum.

[tdierikx]

I get told sometimes that my Pickles (mobility challenged camp dog) is skinny. Firstly, her weight is strictly controlled because of her mobility issues. Secondly, the way that she moves means that some areas where most dogs have muscle, she doesn't have full development of same. Thirdly, she eats twice as much as my other large dogs who are twice her weight, but as she is a very "busy" dog, she uses up the extra just to get around.

Pickles' hip bones are not pronounced, but most days you CAN see/feel her ribs.

Pickles also obviously has some sighthound in her, which does give her a much leaner frame than most pet dogs.

Then again, people tell me that my Lab is skinny too, and I reckon she could happily lose about 2-3 kilos before I'll be totally happy with her weight... *grin*... I keep telling her that she has "booty"... lol!

T.

[BlackJaq]

I always get a bit upset when people talk about breed standards and a good weight, etc etc.

Just looking should be sufficient.

Sure some people are naturally lean and from my experience, so dogs differ in their 'natural' weight and physic.

As I said before, there is a difference between skinny and lean.

Underweight leads to all sorts of problems mental and physical...... as dogmad has pointed out.

Just looking at a dog with little to no body fat and a super fine coat as a normal condition is not going to be the same as just looking at most other breeds.

Most pet dogs carry too much weight. In my opinion so do most show dogs. In my experience your average pet owner has no idea what "lean" is and regard any hint of rib (when three visible ribs is quite normal) as "skinny".

A dog in good working condition should have slighly exposed hip bones.

Show most people a fit lean sighthound and most will think the dog emaciated.

Have to agree, I can often hear people commenting that my dog looks skinny and once a kid came up to me to tell me that my dog needs to be fed really badly as she is starving..

Around here you can usually tell which dogs are backyard ornaments (generally normal weight range but very poor muscle tone) and which are much loved family pets, usually indoors (generally a bit thicker than what I would keep them all the way up to so obese they can barely waddle after their owner when out on "walks"). Of course there are fit, healthy dogs to be found in both ranges and people who are overweight themselves tend to have fat pets, whereas active people often have better muscled dogs.... But you can definitely detect the trends....

Edited May 10, 2013 by BlackJaq

[Loving my Oldies]

I agree with everyone who says that many pet dogs are overweight. Your dog, Blackjaq, looks beautiful andI can't see bones sticking out LOL.

I also know that it is better in humans to be a little bit underweight that overweight.

As I said before, talking about and observing SHOW weight, in my opinion, is just as bad as pet dogs being overweight.

To have an ideal where a dog's bones are all showing is, in my opinion, doing the dog as much a disservice as is over-feeding it.

Just because someone has a dog who eats twice as much as other dogs and is lean does not disprove the rule. It is an example of one dog. I have a brother whose weight is still the same as what is was when he was in his twenties. I am about 2 stone overweight and probably eat less than he does. Same parents different shapes and metabolisms.

I also have a dog who is probably 2 kilos overweight, yet I have him on a strict maintenance diet, he walks everyday with the other dogs, does not have access to treats as no food is left out in this household.

So my point is that, yes, dogs differ in how they keep and lose weight, but to have a show standard where dogs are looking emaciated is doing them a disservice. Just the same as pet dog owners who overfeed their dogs are doing them a disservice.

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Sighthound weight thread is now up in the Health forum.

[Salukifan]

I agree with everyone who says that many pet dogs are overweight. Your dog, Blackjaq, looks beautiful andI can't see bones sticking out LOL.

I also know that it is better in humans to be a little bit underweight that overweight.

As I said before, talking about and observing SHOW weight, in my opinion, is just as bad as pet dogs being overweight.

To have an ideal where a dog's bones are all showing is, in my opinion, doing the dog as much a disservice as is over-feeding it.

Just because someone has a dog who eats twice as much as other dogs and is lean does not disprove the rule. It is an example of one dog. I have a brother whose weight is still the same as what is was when he was in his twenties. I am about 2 stone overweight and probably eat less than he does. Same parents different shapes and metabolisms.

I also have a dog who is probably 2 kilos overweight, yet I have him on a strict maintenance diet, he walks everyday with the other dogs, does not have access to treats as no food is left out in this household.

So my point is that, yes, dogs differ in how they keep and lose weight, but to have a show standard where dogs are looking emaciated is doing them a disservice. Just the same as pet dog owners who overfeed their dogs are doing them a disservice.

There is no ideal that has all a dogs' bones showing. However, some breed standard require a dog to be shown in working condition. "Working Condition" for a dog breed developed solely for speed and to bring down prey is not going to be the same as "working conditon" for a dog bred to break ice leaping into water to retrieve ducks.

Many would argue that the overwhelming majority of show dogs have too much condition on.

Sometimes it's a matter of getting your eye in. Sighthounds are very different in structure, fat and muscle distribution to other breeds. That does NOT mean your average show dog is emaciated. They are simply not bred to carry weight. To me a fat sighthound looks horrendous.

Edited May 10, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[tdierikx]

I agree with everyone who says that many pet dogs are overweight. Your dog, Blackjaq, looks beautiful andI can't see bones sticking out LOL.

I also know that it is better in humans to be a little bit underweight that overweight.

As I said before, talking about and observing SHOW weight, in my opinion, is just as bad as pet dogs being overweight.

To have an ideal where a dog's bones are all showing is, in my opinion, doing the dog as much a disservice as is over-feeding it.

Just because someone has a dog who eats twice as much as other dogs and is lean does not disprove the rule. It is an example of one dog. I have a brother whose weight is still the same as what is was when he was in his twenties. I am about 2 stone overweight and probably eat less than he does. Same parents different shapes and metabolisms.

I also have a dog who is probably 2 kilos overweight, yet I have him on a strict maintenance diet, he walks everyday with the other dogs, does not have access to treats as no food is left out in this household.

So my point is that, yes, dogs differ in how they keep and lose weight, but to have a show standard where dogs are looking emaciated is doing them a disservice. Just the same as pet dog owners who overfeed their dogs are doing them a disservice.

What I was trying to show with the Pickles example is that feeding the "recommended" portions as per the side of the bag for a particular weight is not necessarily the only way to make sure your dog is going to end up in a healthy weight range. Pickles also has sighthound in her breed mix, which means she is of a leaner build type to start with. I was also trying to point out that even though she is lean and invariably has her ribs visible, she doesn't have her hip bones protruding...

Maybe your overweight dog might need even less food than he's currently getting if you are having issues keeping weight off him?

T.

[Rebanne]

Sometimes it's a matter of getting your eye in. Sighthounds are very different in structure, fat and muscle distribution to other breeds. That does NOT mean your average show dog is emaciated. They are simply not bred to carry weight. To me a fat sighthound looks horrendous.

I think the dog looks perfectly fine. It is how they look.

[Diva]

So my point is that, yes, dogs differ in how they keep and lose weight, but to have a show standard where dogs are looking emaciated is doing them a disservice. Just the same as pet dog owners who overfeed their dogs are doing them a disservice.

There is no ideal that has all a dogs' bones showing. However, some breed standard require a dog to be shown in working condition. "Working Condition" for a dog breed developed solely for speed and to bring down prey is not going to be the same as "working conditon" for a dog bred to break ice leaping into water to retrieve ducks.

Many would argue that the overwhelming majority of show dogs have too much condition on.

Sometimes it's a matter of getting your eye in. Sighthounds are very different in structure, fat and muscle distribution to other breeds. That does NOT mean your average show dog is emaciated. They are simply not bred to carry weight. To me a fat sighthound looks horrendous.

From those photos, and assuming she is about the age I think she is, I'd like a little more weight on that Ibizan but not a huge amount.

It is not a show standard calling for them to be thin, they just are. I judge how well nourished a sighthound is by their muscle tone, energy, and coat quality not some generic body condition index that suits a labrador or a staffy. Sighthounds as a rule have less body fat than other groups of dogs, it is why they don't handle some types of anaesthesia as well. Imposing a generic dog view of how much padding they should carry does them a disservice. You'll do more harm to a sighthound by making it fat than you will by letting it be the shape it is born to be.

efs

Edited May 10, 2013 by Diva

[mita]

BlackJaq, the photo of your dog is stunning. Beautiful!

[Crisovar]

Sighthounds as a rule have less body fat than other groups of dogs, it is why they don't handle some types of anaesthesia as well. Imposing a generic dog view of how much padding they should carry does them a disservice. You'll do more harm to a sighthound by making it fat than you will by letting it be the shape it is born to be.

This ! Sighthounds are so very different from other breeds. Comparing them to other breeds is like comparing a meat chicken to a racing pigeon.

IMO the dog in question is pretty close to ideal.

[MsKatie]

I have a kelpie and you can count her ribs - she is naturally lean and very energetic - she gets twice as much kibble as the bloodhound and just burns it off. I am no sight hound expert but I prefer a lean dog

[tdierikx]

This is how my Lab used to look in her younger years... and how I prefer her to look... which apparently was "too skinny" in other people's eyes.

... and this is how she looks now... as you can see, I'd like to drop a couple of kilos off her, but she's still far from fat... most people are not calling her "skinny" any more...

T.

[HazyWal]

Not a great pic of my two but you can clearly see the difference in the two. Maddie's ribs are quite visable but you can see the great muscle tone in her rear end....and then there's Stan, bless him :)

Edited May 10, 2013 by stans mum

[Katdogs]

Stan is just a bit special, isn't he :)

I've been telling my hubby for a couple of months that the girls are getting fat but he wouldn't believe it until the vet told him :rolly-eyes: He's been in charge of portions but I think he's sharing more treats than I would. Pumpkin is being prepared now!

[cannibalgoldfish]

I have two shiba inu, one is 11, the 9. They are cousins (their dads were full brothers, not sure if from the same litter) Loki from day one was lanky. very lanky. He was all legs and spindley body. The vet even put him on steriods to bulk him up because he is so lean (didn't work) Wylie however... every bit of food goes to his tummy. He has had problems with flab, and I need to watch him a bit otherwise he loses his lovely waist and starts to look like a keg on legs.

Compare the two and Loki looks so emaciated He is too lean for a shiba. But 2 vets now say he is fine...?