Dpi Victoria New Codes

[Steve]

http://www.dpi.vic.gov.au/pets/about-pets/breeding-and-rearing-code-review-public-comment/draft-proposed-revised-code/management-of-dogs

[Diva]

There are some 'interesting' points that Victorian breeds should probably read closely.

I know there are currently some exemptions in place for Dogs Vic members, but just as well as on first glance as amongst the very reasonable stuff there seem to me to be some leaps in regulation and red tape and a lot of business for vets. And exemptions can be removed very easily over time.

Like this one:

'Minimum quantity and nutritional quality of feed must be detailed within the health plan developed in conjunction with, and signed off by, a veterinarian for each classification of dog in the Business.' Bad luck if you prefer to raw feed and the only vet near to you just wants to sell you what they retail.

and

'All breeding animals must have a complete health check as detailed in the Business’ health plan including:

•behaviour/temperament consultation, by a veterinarian with certification that the animal is suitable to breed with and the offspring are likely to meet the purpose for which they were bred (for example, pet);'

what if the purpose is show dog, is a vet likely to be able to certify the offspring will be show potential?

and

no more litters for giant (>70cm) breed bitches after 5 years of age - that would exclude some of the most influential litters in the history of my breed, historically our bitches are bred seldom, but often older.

and

no more second degree matings - no grandfather/grandaughter anymore.

and this one made me laugh

'The whelping box must have solid sides that can be easily disinfected, and must be of a height that will allow the bitch to exit readily but will prevent puppies under 4 weeks from falling out.'

Falling out??? I have an extra high sided whelping box but for my one litter I had to drop some of the walls before 4 weeks - the little darlings were scaling the walls at 3 weeks and getting both out and back in. No walls the bitch could easily exit would have held any of them by 4 weeks.

Yep, interesting And I am not even really opposed to sensible regulation. Key word being sensible.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Diva

[Are You Serious Jo]

Jesus, some vets are anti-purebred so you'd have to avoid those and those that have a clue would be booked out

[Christina]

It so horrible I can't read past minimum handling for pups & I can't see how this can be monitored at all. Some of its stupid.

Why do food bowls need disinfecting ? Mine are washed in dishwashing liquid & rinsed. I don't want to put disinfectant on them.

Why must everything be flea treated ? I haven't seen a flea on mine in 20 years so why should I have to use chemicals.

Pups to be taken out of the whelping box/area & handled for such short times. Adults to be taken out of pens for a very short time daily

Anyone who keeps them penned up & confined so much isn't likely to take them out anyway & who checks ?

Doesn't matter much for the small hobby breeder where dogs are part of the family. We are all doing it wrong & will all be gone soon.

Dogs are being seen & treated completely as a commercial venture. I hope all other states do not follow Victoria. We will soon find out.

[Dory the Doted One]

Are the codes as stringent with other animals? ie. Cats, horses, pigs etc?

It all seems rather regimented. I got the impression that raw diet would be frowned upon under these codes. Not explicitly said, but that was the impression I got.

Some of it doesn't seem very workable, and I can imagine puppy prices would sky rocket through the roof to allow for some of the requirements.

[Steve]

If it wasnt so serious it would be laughable. Poor dogs.

[Dame Aussie]

Things like this just turn good people wanting to breed away.

[tdierikx]

They really seem to be targetting the large scale breeders for the pet market - and no thought for the smaller "hobby" or show breeders... *sigh*

T.

[Steve]

[Sheridan]

Things like this just turn good people wanting to breed away.

It won't turn away the large scale breeders because they won't care and it won't turn away BYB because they won't be policed. This is a policy designed to rid Victoria of pedigree dogs.

[puglvr]

This Code of Practice (the Code) is made under the provisions of section 59 of Division 4, Part 4, of the Domestic Animals Act 1994.

The purpose of the Code is to specify the minimum standards of accommodation, management, breeding and care that are appropriate to the physical and behavioural needs of dogs and cats housed in Businesses operating as breeding or rearing domestic animal business

The Code of Practice is to be observed by the proprietor, operations manager and all other staff of a breeding and/or rearing business; including all persons involved in the sale of an animal. All businesses must comply with State and local government legislation and permits.

The Code is mandatory for:

all breeders with 3 or more fertile female dogs or cats that are not currently registered members of an Applicable Organisation, or

all breeders who are registered with an Applicable Organisation and have 10 or more fertile female dogs or cats.

[Natsu chan]

I agree lots of worried breeders here in Victoria and there is a sense that when this is passed...can't imagine that it won't get through lots of breeders will stop breeding as it will be all too hard.

Mandatory desexing of all dogs at the ages suggested is crazy, many breeds use older stud dogs as there is no test for one disorder or another but waiting until the dog is 7 or older and still clear is a way to avoid the problem. In my breed most of our stud dogs get used well past 7!

Vets having to sign off on everything from diet to a retirement plan...seems completely over the top as well. Never mind the amount of paper work required and the insistance that anyone with 5 dogs is running a business.

[redangel]

Personally I have always said where there was no line struck between responsible breeding of pups and the large scale of dog breeding for the pet market solely for profit, such legislation was inevitable. Too many people have been silent in the non commercial breeding of dogs in my opinion against puppy farms & the lack of distinction of raising healthy well socialised dogs on a small scale & the mass production of canine stock for the profitable commercial market. Activists have been very vocal. Why do breeders shy from comment when a large scale breeder is outed for bad practice/or a puppy farmer is investigated? It can be interpreted as condoning bad management? The lack of balance in opinion will always lead to blanket legislation I believe

Sadly the losers are the small hobby breeders who prioritize health, socialization and such above profit.

[Steve]

Things like this just turn good people wanting to breed away.

It won't turn away the large scale breeders because they won't care and it won't turn away BYB because they won't be policed. This is a policy designed to rid Victoria of pedigree dogs.

I would agree with that. The only breeders who can get pinged with close matings are those that keep pedigrees - how on earth could anyone know whether a puppy farmer is doing that? What's more it effectively takes away a tool a purebred breeder can use if they need to. It shows a complete lack of understanding of what purebred breeders do and the joke of it is I can mate a Ram over 500 of his daughters in a couple of days.I can just see them making legislation to tell horse, cattle or sheep breeders what matings they can use.

They clearly havent considered what happens with our dogs once they pass breeding age and its assumed they are stock - just desex them and move them out - too bad if I want to keep them entire and simply live with them and love them until old age. Why cant you mate a male dog after its 7 ? How are they going to work the whole frozen semen thing ?

Tonight we had steak and as always I walked to the back door to throw the dogs the off cuts. Throw em around and everyone gets a bit - no worries no issues and I thought geez if this gets in what I just did becomes illegal. What a joke .

[Ringo]

And the inmates are running the asylum

[Shazzapug]

These changes are for A BREEDING AND REARING ESTABLISHMENT so unless you are a Commercial breeding business then these do NOT apply. As Puglvr has pointed out...if you are a registered breeder with Dogs Vic then you are not considered a BREEDING AND REARING ESTABLISHMENT unless you have more than 10 fertile bitches...this unfortunately includes any female dog over 16 weeks old.

[Christina]

And the inmates are running the asylum

You're not kidding.

This part below taken from the rules impressed me, not

If sleeping areas are inside a place of residence and include carpeted areas, steam cleaning of carpets must be undertaken at least every 6 months.

Its not illegal to have children living in a house where the carpets aren't steam cleaned

You are not required by law to rotate their toys weekly or feed them a doctor approved diet either or exercise them for set amounts of time in certain ways either.

Personally I think carpet manufacturing should be banned, they are filthy things but people are entitled to freedom of choice.

The world has gone insane. Why are people accepting this crap ?

[Diva]

It is great that there is such an exemption for some Dogs Vic members, but if I were in Vic I would still be concerned because exemptions are easy to remove or water down over time. Just a change of govt, or a change of minister, or one bad reg breeder exposed, and it could become politically palatable to remove the exemption. I like a lot of the rules, but some are just arbitrary. Best to get them as workable as possible from the start.

Things like not breeding from males over 7 make no sense in terms of the genetic health of a breed, dogs that have reached an older age in excellent health are likely to be good genetic stock. If they intend that a male doesn't end up a puppy farm breeding machine for life, the rules should be drafted to achieve that without precluding a healthy oustanding 10 year old being used by a breeder who values that longevity. That is just an example. And yes I also found the carpet cleaning rule well over the top, someone has some serious control issues. The general trend in best practice regulatory models is outcome focussed regulation, this heavy handed input prescription is very b grade..

Edited April 15, 2013 by Diva

[Shazzapug]

Using your example...there would be nothing stopping a registered breeder with less than 10 fertile bitches from using a dog 10 yearsof age for the reasons you Diva have outlined....but a Commercial breeder registered as a Breeding and Rearing Establishment in Vic would not be able to breed a dog past 7 yrs of age. Question...how many registered breeders in Victoria are registered as Breeding and Rearing Establishments?

[Christina]

I have just had an idea. Maybe if no one was allowed to own more than 10 dogs there wouldn't be any commercial businesses as it wouldn't be a feasible money maker.

May solve half the problems.