Because I Was Asked In Another Topic:

[Loving my Oldies]

@Danny- Rhodesian Ridgeback (Leia, as in Princess, because she is a princess!) and Kelpie x Staffie (Rex). Leia is my showie, but we haven't been to a show for about a year- she's only 20 months old now and went through a very funny gangly stage for a bit. Getting back to it though! Will be at the ANZAC Day hound show in Canberra :)

A quick question, I know the above is 'off topic'- are there strict rules about that on this forum? I have chooks too, and there's a popular chookie forum that will just delete anything that doesn't stay within the thread topic. Just wondered. And sorry if that is the case :D

RRs are such gorgeous creatures. There are a couple in my neighbourhood.

There is a sub forum here where you can discuss your chooks (and subscribe to Earth Garden magazine LOL), but as it is a sub-forum of Off Topic, you need to have 150 posts before you can see it. Going on the questions people want to ask you, you will be there in no time, but the downside is you won't have time to work :laugh: :laugh:

[Sheridan]

Esch, would a legal agreement between the person/organisation looking after the dog and the owner be a way around that?

Well, I think yes- it would, but a number of conditions would need to be met first. This is again a pretty grey area- I haven't heard of it being done before- but the important things are: for a contract to be binding, it should be (doesn't have to be here but should be) in writing; and it HAS to be for consideration. So, there needs to be money exchanged or mutual benefits on both sides. Something like, I'll pay you X amount of dollars if you care for my dog for X number of months or find it a home, for example. Otherwise it would not be enforceable.

Your will would then to have a specific clause in it, allowing your executor to continue with that agreement on your behalf; and the agreement itself would need to specify that it bound your executor/s and beneficiaries after you died. In other words you'd have to deal with the issue that one of the contractors is dead, assuming that's when it would come into effect.

It's a good idea on the face of it, but I think you'd struggle to find any welfare organisation that would agree to enter into a contract like that. No doubt they would prefer a donation that didn't bind them in any way!

Caveat- I have only mulled over this for a short while- there could be a big problem with the arrangement that I haven't though of yet- if I do think of one I'll come back and update. I do think though that the real issue is going to be finding a welfare organisation that will agree to it.

Food for thought but I certainly wouldn't use a welfare organisation at all because I don't think much of most of them.

[nawnim]

This topic is very interesting and close to my heart. Does anybody know about living wills? What happens if an owner who lives alone has a stroke and goes to hospital? What happens to her dogs? Can someone have them pts?

eschlachter hi. I am about to update my will and I would like to know more about how I can ensure that my wishes regarding my pets are carried out. Just some general advice would be fine. I am in the ACT.

Hi Nawnim,

So, firstly, this (and all my info) is about NSW- the ACT has slightly different laws in relation to 'living wills' and other documents that look after your affairs whilst you're still alive. There is no such thing as a living will, that is (I think) a word we've borrowed from the Americans, but we do have a similar document system to help people with their health and property whilst still alive.

There are four documents that we use on a regular basis, to assist with the management of a person's affairs:

- General Power of Attorney document- this is one that gives control over your finances, property and real estate to some one else;

- Enduring Power of Attorney- this does the same, but it continues to be operational even after you lose the capacity to tell your attorney what to do (and this is the most common one people use- the top one is really for someone going overseas ect and needing an attorney in Australia to assist them for a time.)

-Enduring Guardianship- is a document which appoints someone to make health and lifestyle decisions for you, so where you live and what healthcare you receive;

- Advanced care directives- this document sets our in detail what health care you would like to receive if you can't make those decisions for yourself. It isn't legally binding in NSW, only an enduring guardianship document gives someone actual power to decide what treatment you receive. ACD's are helpful though, especially for the person who has been appointed your guardian. There shouldn't be any confusion over what your wishes are.

All of these need to be completed and executed BEFORE you lose the mental capacity to do so. So, thinking about them now is good!

If an owner of a dog has a stroke and goes to hospital- and they have appointed a person or persons to be their Attorney, that person does have the power to make decisions about the dog, including PTS; unless the document says otherwise- it is possible to put restrictions and limitations on what your attorney can and can't do. It sounds harsh, but our law in some respects equates a dog or cat to a possession like a car or a chair, in situations like that.

However, an attorney must act in the best interests of the principal; so, you could argue, PTS may not be in their best interests at all- or it may be the opposite. If there is no POA document in place, it would be difficult (in my view) to legitimately (and legally) have the dog PTS. As I understand it most organisations and/or the vet would need to know who owned the dog and whether or not they had authorised its destruction?

Anyway as with executors, you should appoint as your attorney someone who knows what your wishes are in relation to your pets (should you go into Hospital or care) and who will carry them out for you.

If you suspect that an attorney is abusing their privileges, or not acting in the best interests of the principal, you can make an application to the Guardianship Tribunal in NSW (or the Supreme Court) to have them removed as attorney/s and replaced by someone else.

Nawnim does that cover it? I think I've set out already in some detail, what you can do to ensure in your will that pets are cared for. Good work on making a will- best thing you can do.

Thankyou for this. You have gone to so much trouble. I realise that I need to talk more with my children to make sure they know exactly what I want to have done.

A few questions. (Sorry if I'm being a bit thick.) Should I not only have a will but also have appointed an attorney? Can this attorney be a relative? Should it be my next of kin? If I ended up in hospital how would the hospital know I had an attorney?

Also would I need to name the relevant pet in the legal document? If so would this mean I would have to update my will and power of attorney documents whenever I lost a pet or gained a new one?

Thanks for your time. Much appreciated.

[eschlachter]

Not a worry. I'll answer them in order-

Should I not only have a will but also have appointed an attorney? Yes. A will only takes effect after you die; powers of attorney and enduring guardianship documents have effect whilst you're alive, and shouldn't be used after death. Not everyone is going to use a power of attorney document, some of us will be lucky enough to be out and about and capable until the day we drop dead; but others won't be so lucky, and will need someone to take care of their affairs for them while they are still alive.

Can this attorney be a relative? Should it be my next of kin? If I ended up in hospital how would the hospital know I had an attorney? Yes, a relative is the best person usually. You should think about appointing someone who has an interest in you- so that if you were in Hospital they'd visit and let the staff know they were your guardian/attorney. Next of kin is usually best, provided you are happy to trust them with your finances! If you're going to hospital for a pre-arranged surgery or something like that, you could take a copy of the document with you and let the staff know who to contact in an emergency.

Also would I need to name the relevant pet in the legal document? I'd avoid 'naming names' where possible, so that if you do have a different pet at the time the document's needed, you won't have any trouble. So perhaps a word/s like 'my pet dog/s are to go to X and my pet cat to y'. To be honest I haven't ever actually named pets or animals in a power of attorney document, but that doesn't mean its not possible! Most people are pretty trusting of their relatives really and rely on them to carry out their wishes, without having it formally recorded in a POA. However, everyone is different and faces different family and personal circumstances, so we need to be flexible and cover all scenarios.

:)

Are there any questions I haven't answered yet guys? please remind me if I have missed yours...

[nawnim]

Not a worry. I'll answer them in order-

Should I not only have a will but also have appointed an attorney? Yes. A will only takes effect after you die; powers of attorney and enduring guardianship documents have effect whilst you're alive, and shouldn't be used after death. Not everyone is going to use a power of attorney document, some of us will be lucky enough to be out and about and capable until the day we drop dead; but others won't be so lucky, and will need someone to take care of their affairs for them while they are still alive.

Can this attorney be a relative? Should it be my next of kin? If I ended up in hospital how would the hospital know I had an attorney? Yes, a relative is the best person usually. You should think about appointing someone who has an interest in you- so that if you were in Hospital they'd visit and let the staff know they were your guardian/attorney. Next of kin is usually best, provided you are happy to trust them with your finances! If you're going to hospital for a pre-arranged surgery or something like that, you could take a copy of the document with you and let the staff know who to contact in an emergency.

Also would I need to name the relevant pet in the legal document? I'd avoid 'naming names' where possible, so that if you do have a different pet at the time the document's needed, you won't have any trouble. So perhaps a word/s like 'my pet dog/s are to go to X and my pet cat to y'. To be honest I haven't ever actually named pets or animals in a power of attorney document, but that doesn't mean its not possible! Most people are pretty trusting of their relatives really and rely on them to carry out their wishes, without having it formally recorded in a POA. However, everyone is different and faces different family and personal circumstances, so we need to be flexible and cover all scenarios.

:)

Are there any questions I haven't answered yet guys? please remind me if I have missed yours...

Thanks so much. My quetions are answered. I will have to make more of an effort to stay on good terms with all my children. :)