Because I Was Asked In Another Topic:

[W Sibs]

Mr W will take them, if we both die... Emmy and Skeeter will go to my brother-in-law. He loves them nearly as much as Mr W and I do...

[cowanbree]

As a multiple pet owner I have given this a lot of thought. I have a discretionary trust which a certain proportion of my estate goes into and it is overseen by 2 different people who know exactly what I want done with each individual pet. Some with health or temperament issues will be pts, some will go back to their breeders, some have appointed people to take them but there are also some that will need to be rehomed. The trust gives them the funds to have someone in looking after the dogs while this is arranged and to fund on going needs if necessary. For instance I would love it if some of the older but still healthy dogs were homed with older people who perhaps can afford the basic needs of a pet but anything over and above eg meds is beyond their means. The trust would allow for this and after the end of my last pets natural life the remainder would be donated to charity.

[Loving my Oldies]

If I pass away my partner keeps the dogs, the co owned ones would go to their other owners. If we both died the dogs would go to their breeders/my breeder friends and they would be rehomed by them.

Hi guys,

Great thread. It is so important to have plans, and even more important to tell people about your plans! Thought I would join in, I'm a lawyer (in NSW) and a wills/estate administration specialist (just finished my masters in this area). Can answer general questions about wills and estate administration in NSW, if you like!

My babies will stay with the o/h, or will go to my parents. This is one of those thoughts/plans that keeps you awake at night isn't it! Or it is for me anyway :) hate to even think about it, but one has to.

So feel free to throw qu's at me, I can't be really specific but general questions/advice is totally fine :)

Can I just stress again the importance and having these plans and hopes actually made legal in your wills. No amount of planning and talking holds water. You must make a will and in that will, as Cowanbree has done, have fends dedicated to the implementation of your wishes in regards to the pets .. Not only dogs.

[PuddleDuck]

As a multiple pet owner I have given this a lot of thought. I have a discretionary trust which a certain proportion of my estate goes into and it is overseen by 2 different people who know exactly what I want done with each individual pet. Some with health or temperament issues will be pts, some will go back to their breeders, some have appointed people to take them but there are also some that will need to be rehomed. The trust gives them the funds to have someone in looking after the dogs while this is arranged and to fund on going needs if necessary. For instance I would love it if some of the older but still healthy dogs were homed with older people who perhaps can afford the basic needs of a pet but anything over and above eg meds is beyond their means. The trust would allow for this and after the end of my last pets natural life the remainder would be donated to charity.

At the vet I used to work at we had a dachshund who was living with a family after her owner died, with the estate covering all the costs. They were the loveliest family and adored her so much, they told me they would never have been able to afford a dog and were so grateful every day for the opportunity. It was just so lovely to see

[Loving my Oldies]

Another point to mention: I have a document in which I have given detailed information on my dogs and cat in regards to their personalities, their likes and dislikes, idiosyncrasies and foibles. Anything that might help with knowing what they are like and where they would fit in to other families.

For instance, I have one little dog who goes ballistic when we encounter other dogs and how this can be controlled; another two who present as very timid, one who growls, but it is just a funny little habit he has and doesn't mean he is abut to take your hand off LOL.

Anything that you think might help the animals and anyone who adopts them make the transition as smooth as it could possibly be for all concerned.

[eschlachter]

If I pass away my partner keeps the dogs, the co owned ones would go to their other owners. If we both died the dogs would go to their breeders/my breeder friends and they would be rehomed by them.

Hi guys,

Great thread. It is so important to have plans, and even more important to tell people about your plans! Thought I would join in, I'm a lawyer (in NSW) and a wills/estate administration specialist (just finished my masters in this area). Can answer general questions about wills and estate administration in NSW, if you like!

My babies will stay with the o/h, or will go to my parents. This is one of those thoughts/plans that keeps you awake at night isn't it! Or it is for me anyway :) hate to even think about it, but one has to.

So feel free to throw qu's at me, I can't be really specific but general questions/advice is totally fine :)

Can I just stress again the importance and having these plans and hopes actually made legal in your wills. No amount of planning and talking holds water. You must make a will and in that will, as Cowanbree has done, have fends dedicated to the implementation of your wishes in regards to the pets .. Not only dogs.

Yes, that's absolutely right- but telling everyone what you would like to happen is often just as important. What we sometimes see, is family sitting down to read a will weeks after the person has died and been cremated. Too bad if the will says that they do NOT want to be cremated under any circumstances, but only ever expressed that wish to their lawyer! (for example). The same with animals- they need to be moved and cared for straight away, so where they go and who should care for them needs to be both broadcast to your nearest and dearest, and recorded in your will.

It's particularly important to let the executor you've nominated in your will, know where the will is; and what it contains. That's the best way to avoid any confusion.

[minimax]

Yes, that's absolutely right- but telling everyone what you would like to happen is often just as important. What we sometimes see, is family sitting down to read a will weeks after the person has died and been cremated. Too bad if the will says that they do NOT want to be cremated under any circumstances, but only ever expressed that wish to their lawyer! (for example). The same with animals- they need to be moved and cared for straight away, so where they go and who should care for them needs to be both broadcast to your nearest and dearest, and recorded in your will.

It's particularly important to let the executor you've nominated in your will, know where the will is; and what it contains. That's the best way to avoid any confusion.

Exactly. I had a friend die recently, very suddenly. Most of his friends knew he had a recent will updated because he'd spoken about it and his wishes, but no one knew where it was. The only copy anyone could find in his house was a really really old one, so unfortunately that was the one used and it was NOT at all what his current wishes were. But as no one knew which solicitor had his current will, and he didn't have copy of it, there was nothing we could do

[Are You Serious Jo]

Hi eschlachter, just wondering about what happens if a person takes an animal and rehomes knowing that the owner had specified the pet be PTS in the will? Are there any legal ramifications for them? This thread and the other has been quite useful in highlighting all the steps that need to be taken to ensure your last wishes are adhered to.

[raz]

I'm actually interested in this as well. There was a recent article about a woman bequeathing her estate to the RSPCA on the grounds that they looked after her dog. They put the dog down before probate even went through. Can they legally retain the funds from the estate?

[alpha bet]

I have a couple of long term clients (run training and boarding), they are both single people and don't really wish to leave their families with these decisions, They have made notes in their wills that I have decision rights on their dogs - they asked me first - and have stated they are happy for me to either re-home or pts - they have even allocated money in trust for their dogs longer term care.

I felt quite honoured they trusted this on me.... we have discussed options... even that I could long term board some of the older dogs a bit like a retirement home... we are only a small kennel and have lots of shady paddocks that the old guys could laze away the day...

Have sometimes wondered if I get to the stage I wish to stop running the ordinary boarding that perhaps I just transfer to a dog retirement home.....

[Loving my Oldies]

I understand that some people have difficulty discussing their own demise, but in today's culture of social media, 24 hour news cycles, etc etc it is hard to understand that people don't get the importance of others knowing their wishes, knowing where wills are, what arrangements they want etc etc. In my own case, I guess it comes from being a secretary and knowing the importance of having just about everything you say and do documented LOL.

My executors both have copies of my will, but I am investigating the possibility of changing my executors.

In any case, it is good to see a specialist lawyer come on board here, eschlachter (welcome) and maybe have more influence that just an ordinary poster might to encourage people to make solid arrangements.

[eschlachter]

Hi eschlachter, just wondering about what happens if a person takes an animal and rehomes knowing that the owner had specified the pet be PTS in the will? Are there any legal ramifications for them? This thread and the other has been quite useful in highlighting all the steps that need to be taken to ensure your last wishes are adhered to.

Well, that's an excellent question, the million dollar one really- there's no point stipulating PTS in a will, if it is unenforceable. So is it? Yes and no. I'll try and start from the beginning.

So, when a person dies, their will comes into effect (and not a moment before that either). Their executor/s have a duty (in fact it's a fiduciary duty too, which is quite significant) to uphold the terms of the will and ensure that an estate is distributed in accordance with those terms. Ordinarily an executor is happy to uphold the terms, and so are the beneficiaries. The will may or may not be admitted to Probate (that's the process where the Supreme Court looks at the will, and some other documents, and approves it and its terms).

If a will directs the executor/s to sell a house, and the execs don't do it- the only real way to enforce compliance is for someone with an interest in the estate, to make an application to the Supreme Court for that Court to order the exec to comply with the will's terms; and/or be replaced by an executor who will do what the will requires of them. Failing to comply with a Supreme Court order may have a serious impact on your wallet (and ultimately your liberty).

From a purely practical perspective, applications to the Supreme Court of that nature are expensive and time consuming. Legal costs are often paid from the estate, but many solicitors and barristers require their fees upfront. So who is going to bear the cost of the application- bearing in mind what the end purpose of the application is, being that we are talking about a dog or pet (valuable and treasured I know) but not for example a house or asset worth a significant amount of money. There may not even be enough money in the estate to cover the costs of such an application.

There's some interesting legal questions around this too, and whether or not a will clause like PTS is enforceable regardless of the fact its in a will. If a court determines it is a 'direction' to an executor, the execs may be free to ignore it and do what they like with the dog. This is in line with the burial or cremation of the testator direction- it is not binding on an executor. Ultimately, it may come down to what words are used in the will, in my view. A dog or pet is a possession and can be given to a beneficiary; and any gift can be made conditional. Therefore, the beneficiary, now owner, can be compelled have the dog PTS, by a court- or they would have to return it to the estate (in practical terms, the executor). The rules with conditional gifts are that a condition can't be: impossible; in terrorem (ie merely intended as a threat without affecting the gift); repugnant (that is contrary to the principles of law affecting the gift); against public policy; or uncertain. So provided PTS doesn't fall foul of any of those rules, it could be enforceable as a part of a conditional gift clause.

Please, don't change your will on the basis of the above information if your will, or solicitor has a different view- the above is really general only.

What you should do, if you're worried your exec/s won't comply with your wishes, is find an executor who will; and appoint them. It's often just that simple.

[Staffyluv]

I always said if anything happened to me that Ollie would stay with OH and/or the boys.. He has gone now and I have Zig..

Zig would be easy to rehome, he is young and healthy, mostly obedience trained and is extremely friendly. He isn't scared of storms or fire crackers. He likes the cat at the vet but hasn't been tested with any others, so I won't say he is bomb proof with cats.

As Zig is so young, if anything happened to me now, I would hope that my youngest would take care of him (but I can't be certain that would happen) - so I guess I should make some arrangements for him to go to someone somewhere. I wouldn't want him PTS, he has so much life in him, that option just wouldn't be fair to him.

Guess I better find a backup in case the kid can't look after him.

[eschlachter]

I'm actually interested in this as well. There was a recent article about a woman bequeathing her estate to the RSPCA on the grounds that they looked after her dog. They put the dog down before probate even went through. Can they legally retain the funds from the estate?

Hi Raz! This a complicated question (and answer)!- I'll sit down tonight and set out for you all how (I think, anyway) the RSPCA can do that... :)

[BC Crazy]

Stan and Maddie will go down to Greyhound Haven Tasmania to be rehomed by Hardys Angel as I know she will find the best of homes for them. I don't want them to ever be seperated as Maddie just adores Stan and I trust HA 100%. All costs will be covered by me including fridge locks.

I may have forgotten to tell HA about my plans :laugh:

Does Stan get to take his oven with him?

:laugh: he's over the oven now he has discovered that big white cold cupboard full of food...if only he could work out those damn fridge locks.

:laugh:

:laugh:

[Loving my Oldies]

I'm actually interested in this as well. There was a recent article about a woman bequeathing her estate to the RSPCA on the grounds that they looked after her dog. They put the dog down before probate even went through. Can they legally retain the funds from the estate?

Hi Raz! This a complicated question (and answer)!- I'll sit down tonight and set out for you all how (I think, anyway) the RSPCA can do that... :)

You'll discover, eschlachter, that the RSPCA is a law unto itself and spends squillions on it own, in-house lawyers to discredit anyone who tries to say anything that might expose some of their more unsavoury actions.

[raz]

I'm actually interested in this as well. There was a recent article about a woman bequeathing her estate to the RSPCA on the grounds that they looked after her dog. They put the dog down before probate even went through. Can they legally retain the funds from the estate?

Hi Raz! This a complicated question (and answer)!- I'll sit down tonight and set out for you all how (I think, anyway) the RSPCA can do that... :)

Thanks Esch. Maybe take the org out of it. lets say Bob died leaving his estate to Mary blah blah. Thanks alot for taking the time to do this. Obviously its a very emotional issue for pet owners so it is a very good thread.

[eschlachter]

I'm actually interested in this as well. There was a recent article about a woman bequeathing her estate to the RSPCA on the grounds that they looked after her dog. They put the dog down before probate even went through. Can they legally retain the funds from the estate?

Hi Raz! This a complicated question (and answer)!- I'll sit down tonight and set out for you all how (I think, anyway) the RSPCA can do that... :)

You'll discover, eschlachter, that the RSPCA is a law unto itself and spends squillions on it own, in-house lawyers to discredit anyone who tries to say anything that might expose some of their more unsavoury actions.

You're not a lawyer for long before work that one out!! :D The stories (legal ones, rather than anything else) about what they get up to are legendary among us.

I had planned to answer Raz's question from an 'any organisation' point of view anyway- I haven't read a lot on this forum, and didn't want to upset anyone by...um... referring to the RSPCA in any kind of negative way :)

Edited April 9, 2013 by eschlachter

[Are You Serious Jo]

Don't worry, apart from a few rspca apologists here the one thing that unites us is our horror stories about the rspca.

[Loving my Oldies]

You're not a lawyer for long before work that one out!! :D The stories (legal ones, rather than anything else) about what they get up to are legendary among us.

Oh WOW!! Some real live ones straight from the horse's [lawyer's] mouth

Tell, tell, tell

Naming no names, of course and all stories starting with, "Once upon a time . . . . . "