cowanbree Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I brought a maiden bitch in last year from a breeder who had issues getting live puppies on the ground. The first one was mated twice for no puppies the first time and the second time she had 2 born dead and 1 fading puppy. She then mated another bitch several times for no puppies. I brought my bitch off her and mated her and a couple of weeks ago she aborted the puppies at 7 1/2 weeks. She was in pup as she was scanned at 4 weeks. She seems fine now although she had a nasty discharge for a while and has just finished a course of antibiotics. She does still have a light cream discharge which my vet has said to leave currently as long as she is well within herself. None of these bitch's are related and our breed isn't known for having fertility issues so it seems really odd. Has anyone had this? Any suggestions for what I should look for? Are my other bitchs at risk? This isn't something I have ever experienced before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 No real idea..but could there be some 'bug' in the breeder's premises that bitches are picking up /carrying ..something nasty & sneaky & that hides until pregnancy ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoiboy Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I am wondering about the Herpie virus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashnchief Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Have you tried monitoring the progesterone levels during pregnancy? We have had fertility issues with one of our past girls, she could fall pregnant but her body could not sustain progesterone levels throughout the pregnancy so we suffered many failed attempts with reabsorbtion at the 4-6wk mark. In the end we opted for progesterone supplementation. It was a lot of work and an emotional rollercoaster but the two litters she did have puppies were very healthy. I have often wondered and questioned about the Herpes Virus, however with apparantly no vaccine options available here I'm not sure how you go about tackling the issue. I had a lot of advice from European breeders whom all suggested the common use of the vaccine over there. With so many imported dogs coming into our country I can't see why it wouldn't be a possible issue for us here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stolzseinrotts Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I agree with tashnchief as to progesterone levels. This is one of the main reasons bitches cannot carry their litters to term. Low levels of progesterone and it is more common than most people think as to the main reason for litters being absorbed / aborted. Unless you monitor the levels you would be none the wiser. The herpes virus is another major concern and one that I don't think many realise can do a lot of damage and is here!!!! And again I agree , why do we not have the vaccination here for it???? Oh that is right we are in Australia! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mini girl Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I have a girl who lost her first litter at 51 days - do dreadful - next time off to the reproduction vet - her progesterone was monitored and she needed progesterone to get her to the end of her pregnancy - beautiful healthy litter was the result - bred her again - same thing but needed progesterone a bit earlier this time - I asked my reproduction vet if they were any closer to knowing just why this happens and he said no that there is very little money made available for dog pregnancy research - but he added that it is becoming more common. While in the waiting room was talking to another breeder - she had had a girl need progesterone as well. My girl came from a mother who had no such difficulties and I know of her sister who was fine too - I have put a couple of her pups with other breeders with full disclosure of the mother's condition - I have advised them when they do breed to get blood tests done for progesterone levels just in case - I am interested in the results - I do hope it has not been passed down. My girl delivered as easy as wink and fed and raised her litters no problem at all and returned to normal very quickly. Maybe one day there will be an answer. I have seached the internet for any answers but nothing pinpoints anything. One thing both the repro vet and I both noticed that around 5 or so weeks her tummy seemed to have dropped - once progesterone was started - one tablet a day - she seemed to change shape and her tummy not so low. I am not breeding her again but I must say except for this progesterone problem she was an ideal breeding bitch. White doing my research read about the herpes virus and wonder if it could be a problem - certainly with checking - it is very contageous I believe. Good luck - hope you get a litter from your girl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tashnchief Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 LOL Stolzseinrotts! That pretty much sums up the response I got when I started to question a number of different vets about it. We don't have access to the vaccine here because it isn't a problem here! Well when hundreds of dogs every year are imported from countries that do vacinate for it and use the vaccine on bitches who have fertility issues, one has to question how the hell we wouldn't have it here. If you research Canine Herpes virus most sypmtoms are the same that people experience when refering to fertility issues in their bitches. With the ever increasing number of fertility problems, I can't understand why no one is doing anything about it. I was basically informed that if I wanted to push to have it looked into I would be best to contact one of the University veterinary schools and see if they would consider it a research project but that would only really be considered if I was personally prepared to throw tens of thousands of dollars behind it. In the meantime, we have to rely on progesterone supplementations and hope for the best. We got great success with it in two seperate litters although this particular female also had a litter sister who had fertility problems as well. She only ever once fell pregnant and it failed, no amount of prog supplementation could help her unfortunately. Prog supplementation, involves either tablets or injections ( tablets were the only thing that got us through our bitch reabsorb right through an injection supplement, she obvioulsy metabolised it too quickly). Weekly blood tests however some weeks we had bloods every 3 days and weekly ultrasounds to ensure the whelps were still alive and growing. Like I said earlier it was lots of hard work and added expense however it was all worth it in the long run. Probably worth looking into and talking with a reproductive vet before contemplating your next litter Cowanbree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shelby Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Cowanbree, I would also ask some of the USA breeders re: herpes virus. I will check my computer when I get home as a friend from USA sent me some info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
espinay2 Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 (edited) First thing that springs to my mind is Mycoplasma. Note that Clavamox is not effective against Mycoplasma. http://www.stca.biz/...gens&Itemid=100 http://www.stca.biz/...gens&Itemid=100 Posting this too in case it helps: http://www.midwoof.c...ReproIssues.pdf Pretty much everything except the Symplex-F is available in Australia. I have been using much of this this time around with my now pregnant bitch. Different situaiton to yours but she missed/possibly resorbed early twice beforehand so I have been doing everything I can think of. Can't say if this has helped, as there were lots of other factors as well, but can't say it didnt help either. There is a good Group in FB that Myra Savant has a hand in that may pull up a few ideas too: http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/groups/CanineFertilityReproductionNeonateIssues/ Edited April 8, 2013 by espinay2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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