Raw Diet

[ellz]

As with anything it is about balance, feeding a whole egg (shell and all) is balanced. The old biotin absorption information has been proven to be largely incorrect UNLESS you are feeding a HEAP of egg whites by themselves (I'd rather make a pav with them! :laugh: ).

I'm about to embark on the Augustine's Approved Diet with my Staffords and American Cocker. Am looking forward to seeing the results.

[Staffyluv]

I agree with the others that say raw and dry are fine..

I also agree with those feeding whole eggs.. You should see the look on Zig's face when I unpack an egg carton from the shopping and he sees all those eggs.. He only gets one a week, sometimes two but usually one. He gets the whole thing in the shell - I think it is his favourite thing of all.

[Tangwyn]

There are a bunch of greyhound owners and farmers who would also argue that feeding $5 kibble and bread is just fine. Just because your dogs have adapted doesn't mean it's best practice.

On what basis are those of you mixing kibble and raw doing so? What's your assumed benefit?

Cheers

Kirsty

[BC Crazy]

I have always feed raw + dry together. IMHO then they are getting the best of both worlds. For my raw I mix beef,chic,turkey mince all human grade. I also add egg yolks, sardines & a little cottage cheese.

Mix all that together & they have roughly a handful mixed through their dry food. Then on top I add some Sprint Oil & 1 teaspoon of Augustines Superboost. One small brisket bone daily.

I was having a lot of trouble with my guys coats & over all I just wasn't happy with their condition. So with help from experienced people on DOL who were kind enough to share their knowledge, I tweaked with

their diet & changed their dry food to grain free. Now I'm wrapped. Their coats look great, very shiny & theyhave wonderful muscle definition :)

Edited April 8, 2013 by BC Crazy

[Tangwyn]

BC Crazy, that looks like a super raw diet you are feeding. What's the benefit of adding the dry kibble? If you are feeding less that the recommended amount of dry food, your dog won't be receiving the required amount of vitamins & minerals from that source anyway. I just can't get my head around what perceived gap the dry food is filling (other than a gap in the feeder's confidence).

[~Anne~]

The benefit isn't the argument. It is the claim that a dog's digestive system cannot manage both and that it is detrimental that is on question.

[Tangwyn]

Just for the record this is my dogs' diet:

Muscle meat varying across chicken, rabbit, beef, lamb and salmon (at least 20% of meat fed is salmon)

Chicken frames, duck frames, lamb brisket, chicken feet, form the majority of bones

5% diet comprised of liver and another 5% comprising other organs including hearts, kidneys

Green lamb tripe forms about 15% (forms part of the muscle meat %)

Ad hoc; whole eggs, cooked veggies, occasional sprinkle of kelp powder, flax seed oil, occasional probiotic during stressful periods like travel etc

Like all raw feeders, we too boast beautiful coats and wonderful hard body condition. After holidays the dogs come back into hard, muscular body condition much faster and with less exercise than on commercial food :-)

[Tangwyn]

Hi Anne,

So what's the argument that its not detrimental? That the dogs have adapted?

[Staffyluv]

Zig is mainly raw - I think I already posted it but he gets people meat from the butcher + chook necks, wings, carcasses + turkey necks + lamb rib flaps and some brisket bones (as long as they are not too fatty). He gets whole eggs, cottage cheese, sardines in oil, fresh fish (salmon, tuna etc).

He gets some devon and cheese as training treats (only at obedience, not just at home or at the park training - here he trains for a tennis ball only).

I also give him about 1/4 to 1/2 a cup of kibble (Eukanuba) a week in a kong with some cottage cheese - if I have to go out, this keeps him busy for ages.

We have just discovered pigs ears as well - he loves them but I am not a big lover of retrieving half chewed ones from his throat.

I personally think the best diet for your dog is what they do well on.

[~Anne~]

Hi Anne,

So what's the argument that its not detrimental? That the dogs have adapted?

Adapted to what? Mixing kibble and raw? Or are you switching the focus to the argument that dry food itself, and not the mix, is wrong?

Saying that a dog's digestive system can't handle the mix of raw and kibble is rubbish. Simple. If you said that some commercial foods aren't the best choice I might agree but why on earth a dog, which is essentially a scavenger, can't digest both leaves me muttering 'horsesheet' to put it bluntly.

The millions of dogs, who are healthy and happy, who eat both dry and other foods are the crux of the argument. Some dogs do well on raw, some don't. Some dogs do well on commercial, some don't.

As Staffyluv says, the best food for your dog is the food your dog does best on.

[Rebanne]

There are a bunch of greyhound owners and farmers who would also argue that feeding $5 kibble and bread is just fine. Just because your dogs have adapted doesn't mean it's best practice.

On what basis are those of you mixing kibble and raw doing so? What's your assumed benefit?

Cheers

Kirsty

cause I feel like it and the dogs do well on it.

[Tangwyn]

Anne,

I absolutely agree that the diet your dog does best on is the best diet. My question was, what is the basis for saying that the papers written regarding mixing raw and dried are rubbish? What actually is the counter-argument other than dogs are scavengers and can adapt? What research are you drawing on? The commercial food companies say don't mix their product with raw as you upset the balance. And raw feeders say don't mix the two because it is more difficult for the dog's gut to cope. So what source are you getting that view from?

[~Anne~]

Anne,

I absolutely agree that the diet your dog does best on is the best diet. My question was, what is the basis for saying that the papers written regarding mixing raw and dried are rubbish? What actually is the counter-argument other than dogs are scavengers and can adapt? What research are you drawing on? The commercial food companies say don't mix their product with raw as you upset the balance. And raw feeders say don't mix the two because it is more difficult for the dog's gut to cope. So what source are you getting that view from?

What commercial food companies say not to mix dry with anything? Hogwash I say.

I don't need to research Wikipedia or find a 'research' paper to throw 'evidence' at you to prove an invalid argument. For the one paper you've found supporting this theory I am sure there are a million more to say otherwise.

You can deflect your argument seeking 'evidence' from me and it will make no difference. The argument is very weak when millions of dogs, including my own, successfully mix kibble and 'other' food and thrive.

As for the counter argument about dogs being scavengers, it's no argument, it's true.

It's plain to see so far in this thread that most have met your statement with strong scepticism so perhaps you should provide 'evidence' to support your theories. Why aren't my dogs having problems with digesting both dry and raw?

[Dame Aussie]

My guys eat a mainly raw diet but I do keep kibble on hand if we run out, in emergencies and busy times etc.

Normally they get a raw meaty bone for breakfast (chicken frame, chicken leg, lamb neck, turkey wing eyc), then some meat (lamb, sardines, tuna) before bed. If I've run out of raw they might get kibble as a meal mixed with sardines/yoghurt or egg.

They love their food, even the dry when they get it, and are pictures of health, last time they were at the vet she couldn't get over their coats :)

[BC Crazy]

IMHO as others have said the bottom is whatever works best for your dog :)

Edited April 8, 2013 by BC Crazy

[minimax]

If the theory behind not feeding dry and raw at the same time is different digestion rates, then the same could be said for meat and bone as they digest at different rates too.

But seriously, digestive systems are smarter than that. They don't fall over if they get different foods!

[megan_]

Humans also eat foods that digest at different rates and cope. My dogs get raw and dry at different times. I always have dry on hand when out and about to reward good behavior - hard to do with raw.

The argument isn't about different digestive rates though, it is about the level of acidity needed to break down bones vs dry. That said, my dogs are in good shape and do great poos. I honestly don't care about what research shows in test subjects - I care about my dogs and their condition.

[~Anne~]

Humans also eat foods that digest at different rates and cope. My dogs get raw and dry at different times. I always have dry on hand when out and about to reward good behavior - hard to do with raw.

The argument isn't about different digestive rates though, it is about the level of acidity needed to break down bones vs dry. That said, my dogs are in good shape and do great poos. I honestly don't care about what research shows in test subjects - I care about my dogs and their condition.

Re bolded bit. The same for me. I keep trying to think of ways I could create some thing that would be roughly the same size and texture, be able to be stored perhaps by freezing and not cost more than my weekly income.

[minimax]

Humans also eat foods that digest at different rates and cope. My dogs get raw and dry at different times. I always have dry on hand when out and about to reward good behavior - hard to do with raw.

The argument isn't about different digestive rates though, it is about the level of acidity needed to break down bones vs dry. That said, my dogs are in good shape and do great poos. I honestly don't care about what research shows in test subjects - I care about my dogs and their condition.

Ah ok, I didn't actually read any of the arguments, I just couldn't think of what the problem would be. Honestly, if the dog is pooping and no food is staying backed up for weeks on end - I can't see how it's a problem! And I'm the most anti-dry food person you will find, don't me wrong ;)

However if your dog is doing well on something, then go for it. Dogs don't tend to read research on stomach acidity.

[sheena]

My dogs have absolutely no problems with their digestion