Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Your argument totally lacks logic and judgement. We are not discussing other people and other dogs. We are discussing the fact (one many posters are totally missing or deliberately avoiding simply so they can bang their own discordant drums) that a guide dog, healthy, happy, highly trained, in the prime of life was killed because of the arrogance, self centred and self rigtheous attitude of a poorly advised woman and her family. You're the one banging your discordant drum. You've made a judgement about a dead woman and her family based on a Daily Mail Online article. Wow. The woman is DEAD. She made a decision based on the dog she knew. You didnt know the dog but you take it upon yourself to call her an arrogant, self centred and self righteous person. You dont know her either! This matter should never have made the tabloids. Funerals are private matters and the fact this has ended up with death threats to the son at this time as well as a Vet assistant is just disgraceful! Pretty much this. I did say that things aren't as simple when it comes to a guide dog as it probably would have a safe future. But the rest of my comments were about the blanket condemnation of wanting to make sure your dog will never suffer. My shih tzu is coming with me no question, he's getting old and has done his time in the pound. My coolie is a lot younger and if I die tomorrow he would have probably another 12 years. I know none of my family can take him if I die so who would like to put their hand up to guarantee him a permanent home for the next 12 or so years? Who should I put down as taking him on, full name for the will please :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 BTW, there is NO evidence that dogs understand the concept of death, they don't have the requisite cognitive capacities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I was in a situation where I was staying with someone as they were preparing to die with a terminal disease. They asked me to do something and I said I didnt think I could do it as they got closer to the end it became a major deal for them and then they cried and begged for me to promise to do something - and in order to help them go in peace I promised that I would. Sort of had the idea in my mind at the time Id say what ever she wanted to hear to just let her go in peace but I wouldnt do it. After she had died I then had a choice - say nothing ,do nothing as if I hadnt promised or fulfill my promise. Ethically I chose to keep my promise even though no one other than this person and I ever knew there had been a promise. No one other than I know I did do what I promised to do either. I got all caught up in stuff as I was working through it - thoughts about God and life after death and whether she could see me not doing what I promised etc. In all honesty I don't think I could have ever lived my own life in peace if I hadn't of done what id promised to do. Maybe just maybe this is how the son felt. If he promised his Mum then I get that it was more important to him to keep his word to her over what he personally may have felt was best for the dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Who should I put down as taking him on, full name for the will please :laugh: Nooooooo :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 When I was a teenager , there was a family friend who was dying of cancer.She had a little terrier and asked could he be PTS when she died . "Yes, Yes" everyone said ..but it was not done , the dog was rehomed ... and you know what, to this day, I feel guilty that her wish was not carried out ..after everyone lying to her to keep her happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Who should I put down as taking him on, full name for the will please :laugh: Nooooooo :p I suspect DD will be knocking down my door though so I think you will be safe :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I suspect DD will be knocking down my door though so I think you will be safe :laugh: Hardly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 No doubt it's an ethical issue ... & it seems it's turned up in a few DOLers' lives. The thing with ethics is that you have to work thro' your own values. So people can come up with a different 'take' on exactly the same situation. Bit O/T, but it's why I liked the idea of those ethics classes in NSW schools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Geez DD - who died and made you the forum police? You know that these sort of threads often meander around various angles of a topic... T. This is getting stupid, but then how silly of me to expect more . . . . . so sad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I suspect DD will be knocking down my door though so I think you will be safe :laugh: Hardly. But you have such strong views on this I thought you'd help a sister out :laugh: Thanks for helping prove my point by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I suspect DD will be knocking down my door though so I think you will be safe :laugh: Hardly. But you have such strong views on this I thought you'd help a sister out :laugh: Thanks for helping prove my point by the way. Oh, people have strong views but when it comes to stepping up then that's another matter entirely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I suspect DD will be knocking down my door though so I think you will be safe :laugh: Hardly. But you have such strong views on this I thought you'd help a sister out :laugh: Thanks for helping prove my point by the way. Oh, people have strong views but when it comes to stepping up then that's another matter entirely. Yep. Lost count of the number of dogs I've seen being given away in a hurry by family members of a deceased relative, I think my dogs deserve better than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 When I was a teenager , there was a family friend who was dying of cancer.She had a little terrier and asked could he be PTS when she died . "Yes, Yes" everyone said ..but it was not done , the dog was rehomed ... and you know what, to this day, I feel guilty that her wish was not carried out ..after everyone lying to her to keep her happy yes thats how I would have felt if Id said yes and not kept my promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) That's your opinion. It doesn't make it right, doesn't make what other people think right either. It's a debate and swapping ideas. I can actually see both sides but I still think the dog was too young to be PTS. Doesn't mean i'm going to belittle and be nasty to others because my ideas don't equal theirs. Some people need to be right in everything. You only make yourself look completely sad with your constant taunting of other members. You've described ethical debate well. It will always be based on individual people's values so there'll be different views. I hope the NSW ethics classes will continue so children can learn young that's so. Edited April 7, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) When I was a teenager , there was a family friend who was dying of cancer.She had a little terrier and asked could he be PTS when she died . "Yes, Yes" everyone said ..but it was not done , the dog was rehomed ... and you know what, to this day, I feel guilty that her wish was not carried out ..after everyone lying to her to keep her happy yes thats how I would have felt if Id said yes and not kept my promise. Interesting, isn't it .... when the examples are real ones in our own lives. Sort of sheds a different light. I think I'd ask the person why they were making the request for a still-young dog to be PTS. If it was that they genuinely feared for its future .... and if I had some certainty there could be a good rehoming ... then I'd ask how he/she would feel about that. It can be awfully hard, tho', to be having discussions like that with someone who may be in great pain, affected by medications or in a distressed state that's hard to imagine. But I might agree that the young dog 'go with them', if there was no chance for a clear discussion about rehoming (even tho' it was pretty certain). Then I'd put a photo of the dog in their casket & rehome the dog. Someone else would not make that choice but would PTS the dog .... saying they wouldn't betray the person's wish. But I'd weigh up the young dog's 'best interest' to live out its life.... against the thinking of a person suffering & facing death. Ethically, neither of those solutions would be right or wrong. Each of us would say we made a call according to how we sorted thro' our own values. Best any of us can do. Edited April 7, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 One thing I've learned from this thread is that if you are terminal, take your dog in yourself to PTS because you can't reply on others to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 When I was a teenager , there was a family friend who was dying of cancer.She had a little terrier and asked could he be PTS when she died . "Yes, Yes" everyone said ..but it was not done , the dog was rehomed ... and you know what, to this day, I feel guilty that her wish was not carried out ..after everyone lying to her to keep her happy yes thats how I would have felt if Id said yes and not kept my promise. Interesting, isn't it .... when the examples are real ones in our own lives. Sort of sheds a different light. I think I'd ask the person why they were making the request for a still-young dog to be PTS. If it was that they genuinely feared for its future .... and if I had some certainty there could be a good rehoming ... then I'd ask how he/she would feel about that. It can be awfully hard, tho', to be having discussions like that with someone who may be in great pain, affected by medications or in a distressed state that's hard to imagine. But I might agree that the young dog 'go with them', if there was no chance for a clear discussion about rehoming (even tho' it'd be pretty certain). Then I'd put a photo of the dog in their casket & rehome the dog. Someone else would not make that choice but would PTS the dog .... saying they wouldn't betray the person's wish. But I'd weigh up the young dog's 'best interest' to live out its life.... against the thinking of a person suffering & facing death. Ethically, neither of those solutions would be right or wrong. Each of us would say we made the call according to how we sorted thro' our own values. Best any of us can do. Who are you to decide what is in the best interests of a dog that isn't yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dame Aussie Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I agree that some people can't believe that a dog they've been so close with, could ever find an equally happy home after they'd died. Or even bond with another owner. Bravest & most sensible elderly lady I know of.... was facing failing health. She made a decision. While she was alive & reasonably well so could control the situation, she would find a new home for her beloved 10 yr old p/b tibbie. She wanted the comfort of seeing... & knowing... that her little dog was happy & settled without her. It threw a few people she asked for help, at first. But, as she pointed out.... she was doing something sooner rather than later.... & she'd be in control of who her dog would go to. Lot of people helped .... even a great lady from Cav Rescue Qld, who did an assessment of the tibbie. And whose assessment later on proved to be spot on. Well, that little tib found a brilliant home with Sydney people who already owned 2 tibbies. As soon as she put her paws into that house, she settled and has a wonderful life. Many months later, the elderly lady came to stay, & saw for herself that her dog had made a new life. And didn't worry when she left. But not all dogs can adapt to being in a new place away from their owners. I know of some who have adapted, but some don't. I think the original owner knows best whether their dog would be happy being re-homed or not. By this same logic though, dogs that are dumped by their owners at pounds are also better off dead because they too could be mourning the loss of their family and "suffering" without them. I've actually had a greyhound surrendered to me from a pet home and the poor girl didn't eat for a week, she was terribly heartbroken. Until a few weeks later when she'd forgotten about them entirely, was eating like a horse and very happy. She just needed time to settle into the new routine in the new place and that was it. Dogs aren't attached to us in the same way that we're attached to them. Anthropomorphising them does them no good, especially when it ends this way- with a healthy, young dog, dead. Exactly. We can't get up in as about shelters euthing healthy rehomeable dogs then say this is ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I'm not into condemning shelters who have to PTS young animals if they haven't got room, worse things than being dead can happen. I try not to be a hypocrite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) [ Who are you to decide what is in the best interests of a dog that isn't yours? It has become mine because the owner has indicated I was now to act on its behalf, following her death. Same applies to the someone else who'd make a different choice, if in the same situation. That person, too, would've got the nod to act on the dog's behalf, after her death. In both our cases, that permits us to take a next action. I would rehome. The other person would take it to the vet to be PTS. We both would simply have made different ethical choices. And even tho' it doesn't fit my value system, I wouldn't abuse the person who made the opposite choice. Edited April 7, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now