labadore Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I must say I find some people's responses in this thread odd - some of the same people who attacked others in a different thread when it was suggested that the particular dog in question - who is suffering - be PTS. Yet in this case - a young healthy dog who would appear to be very suitable for rehoming - it is OK? Very confusing Yep the double standards on DOL are mind bloggling When it comes to guide dog losing their lives, even more so (check out the other thread in the News section on a poor guide dog losing its life due to negiligence on the part of the handler leaving this poor dog to cook to death in the car ). Can't quite work out whether it is due to the dislike of the Labrador breed/it's popularity, as majority of guide dogs are Labs or whether they have done something similar or know someone who has and are trying to justify their actions. I am sure any future guide dog death posts will have the usual suspects coming in to defend the action of the person responsible for the guide dog's death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 This is the interwebs Sheridan... hysteria and outcry appears to be the norm, remember? T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I must say I find some people's responses in this thread odd - some of the same people who attacked others in a different thread when it was suggested that the particular dog in question - who is suffering - be PTS. Yet in this case - a young healthy dog who would appear to be very suitable for rehoming - it is OK? Very confusing Yep the double standards on DOL are mind bloggling When it comes to guide dog losing their lives, even more so (check out the other thread in the News section on a poor guide dog losing its life due to negiligence on the part of the handler leaving this poor dog to cook to death in the car ). Can't quite work out whether it is due to the dislike of the Labrador breed/it's popularity, as majority of guide dogs are Labs or whether they have done something similar or know someone who has and are trying to justify their actions. I am sure any future guide dog death posts will have the usual suspects coming in to defend the action of the person responsible for the guide dog's death. There is a HUGE difference between a service dog dying through negligence, and one that is humanely euthanaised on the behest of the owner. Seriously - we really don't know the full story or history about this dog and owner - so any suppositions from this side of a "news" article are only that... suppositions. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 This is the interwebs Sheridan... hysteria and outcry appears to be the norm, remember? T. Hysteria be buggered. Outcry because some of us have a different moral compass than others and find it appalling and selfish that a young guide dog was put to sleep on the whim of his owner. To many arrogant dog owners think because of the bond they have with dogs, that they could not bond with another owner. Labradors are prime example of a breed that can very easily and successfully bond with a new owner, look at the standard for a Labrador, the temperament in particular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 This is the interwebs Sheridan... hysteria and outcry appears to be the norm, remember? T. Hysteria be buggered. Outcry because some of us have a different moral compass than others and find it appalling and selfish that a young guide dog was put to sleep on the whim of his owner. To many arrogant dog owners think because of the bond they have with dogs, that they could not bond with another owner. Labradors are prime example of a breed that can very easily and successfully bond with a new owner, look at the standard for a Labrador, the temperament in particular. You haven't met my brother's assistance dog then, have you? I know for a fact that he wouldn't function at all if my brother died... it's bad enough if my brother leaves him for a couple of hours - even with family he knows and loves. They share a completely symbiotic relationship - neither can really cope without the other. T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I must say I find some people's responses in this thread odd - some of the same people who attacked others in a different thread when it was suggested that the particular dog in question - who is suffering - be PTS. Yet in this case - a young healthy dog who would appear to be very suitable for rehoming - it is OK? Very confusing Yep the double standards on DOL are mind bloggling When it comes to guide dog losing their lives, even more so (check out the other thread in the News section on a poor guide dog losing its life due to negiligence on the part of the handler leaving this poor dog to cook to death in the car ). Can't quite work out whether it is due to the dislike of the Labrador breed/it's popularity, as majority of guide dogs are Labs or whether they have done something similar or know someone who has and are trying to justify their actions. I am sure any future guide dog death posts will have the usual suspects coming in to defend the action of the person responsible for the guide dog's death. There is a HUGE difference between a service dog dying through negligence, and one that is humanely euthanaised on the behest of the owner. Seriously - we really don't know the full story or history about this dog and owner - so any suppositions from this side of a "news" article are only that... suppositions. T. Maybe a difference, but end result is the same, both dogs are dead and both deaths were preventable and the amount of defending of these people that caused their deaths is sickening. As I said some of our moral compasses are at different ends of the spectrum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
labadore Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) This is the interwebs Sheridan... hysteria and outcry appears to be the norm, remember? T. Hysteria be buggered. Outcry because some of us have a different moral compass than others and find it appalling and selfish that a young guide dog was put to sleep on the whim of his owner. To many arrogant dog owners think because of the bond they have with dogs, that they could not bond with another owner. Labradors are prime example of a breed that can very easily and successfully bond with a new owner, look at the standard for a Labrador, the temperament in particular. You haven't met my brother's assistance dog then, have you? I know for a fact that he wouldn't function at all if my brother died... it's bad enough if my brother leaves him for a couple of hours - even with family he knows and loves. They share a completely symbiotic relationship - neither can really cope without the other. T. No of course I haven't met your brother's assistance dog and they may share a completely symbiotic relationship, but how will you know whether the dog will cope without him and never be able to be rehomed with a new owner until the dog is given a chance. None of us can say that and I have had extremely deep bonds with all my Labs (past and present), but would never be that selfish that I would want to deprive any of them of an opportunity to live a new life without me if I died before any of hem as they deserve to be given a chance to do so. Dogs should be allowed to grieve for their deceased owners, then given a chance at adjusting to a new life with a new owner BEFORE any decision is made on ending their lives. Edited April 7, 2013 by labadore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic.B Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) You haven't met my brother's assistance dog then, have you? I know for a fact that he wouldn't function at all if my brother died... it's bad enough if my brother leaves him for a couple of hours - even with family he knows and loves. They share a completely symbiotic relationship - neither can really cope without the other. T. What sort of assistance dog are we speaking of T? Does not sound like a healthy relationship. If your brother leaves the house (without his dog) and the dog is so distressed even with family members who mind him (who he knows well) Surely that is an issue which needs to be considered. Did this dog have SA issues prior to placement or has that surfaced in your brothers home? Did you speak with the service who provided the dog re these issues? ETA Spelling! Edited April 7, 2013 by Nic.B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 This is the interwebs Sheridan... hysteria and outcry appears to be the norm, remember? T. Using emotional language to criticize people for using emotional language, is granting the right to emotional expression only to your selves. You're overlooking the fact that numbers of people have debated the issue in this thread with rational arguments. And that other external sources have also commented, in rational ways, on the Toffee 'situation'. It's an ethical issue and, as such, is worthy of debate. Because of this thread, I've been looking up one of the Veterinary Journals in which every month an ethical issue, just like this situation, is set out for comment & debate. Some scenarios revolve around different views by vet & by owner about the rights & wrongs of PTS in particular cases. And, interestingly, there's a clear argument made that the interests of the animal exist above any status as property. I wonder if any vet approached to put Toffee to sleep, declined because of his/her interpretation of the ethics in this case. Pure speculation, of course. Certainly the vet assistant quoted made it clear he wouldn't agree PTS. What is obvious, is that a vet finally passed it as OK with his/her interpretation of ethics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 You haven't met my brother's assistance dog then, have you? I know for a fact that he wouldn't function at all if my brother died... it's bad enough if my brother leaves him for a couple of hours - even with family he knows and loves. They share a completely symbiotic relationship - neither can really cope without the other. T. What sort of assistance dog are we speaking of T? Does not sound like a healthy relationship. If your brother leaves the house (without his dog) and the dog is so distressed even with family members who mind him (who he knows well) Surely that is an issue which needs to be considered. Did this dog have SA issues prior to placement or has that surfaced in your brothers home? Did you speak with the service who provided the dog re these issues? ETA Spelling! My brother's assistance dog is owner trained, and he's had the dog since a young pup - this dog would not rehome well if my brother passed away because the bond between them is unbreakable... not unlike your dad's girl wanting to go be with him... This is the interwebs Sheridan... hysteria and outcry appears to be the norm, remember? T. Using emotional language to criticize people for using emotional language, is granting the right to emotional expression only to your selves. You're overlooking the fact that numbers of people have debated the issue in this thread with rational arguments. And that other external sources have also commented, in rational ways, on the Toffee 'situation'. It's an ethical issue and, as such, is worthy of debate. Because of this thread, I've been looking up one of the Veterinary Journals in which every month an ethical issue, just like this situation, is set out for comment & debate. Some scenarios revolve around different views by vet & by owner about the rights & wrongs of PTS in particular cases. And, interestingly, there's a clear argument made that the interests of the animal exist above any status as property. I wonder if any vet approached to put Toffee to sleep, declined because of his/her interpretation of the ethics in this case. Pure speculation, of course. Certainly the vet assistant quoted made it clear he wouldn't agree PTS. What is obvious, is that a vet finally passed it as OK with his/her interpretation of ethics. I apologise mita... I was being a bitch... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 [ I apologise mita... I was being a bitch... T. You don't have to apologise to me, T. :) You haven't done anything that I haven't done myself at some time. So no moral high ground from me! :) :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 [ I apologise mita... I was being a bitch... T. You don't have to apologise to me, T. :) You haven't done anything that I haven't done myself at some time. So no moral high ground from me! :) :) OK - I apologise to anyone I may have offended with my comment about hysteria... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) , if Toffee has left a legacy , it is one of people now being made more aware of their pets, of plans for the future, and of what they may do to make transitions the best they can for everyone. [/font][/color] [Hopefully now, more folks will put thought into what their dog/cat/ pet will have to cope with should they fall ill ..and where that pet will finally end up.[/font][/color] I agree. Even the debate within this thread has highlighted how some people have looked ahead & prepared the way for any separation. It's also shown that, ethically & even in the law, the interests of the animal are above its status as property. If that weren't a fact, we wouldn't have welfare laws. Exactly what those best interests would be, has to be sorted out. I know of a most loving small dog owner who said she's left instructions that her 2 small dogs are to be PTS in the event of her death. She said she honestly didn't believe anyone else in her family would care for them as she has. But, interestingly, out of the blue in more recent times, she's asked friends she trusts would they take them. And I know we would. Most lovingly. But other people might not be so lucky. Edited April 7, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 DT, I hear you! step back Hun and read through. Pers is probably the most compasionate and loving memeber of this entire forum. It doesn't mean that her statements should go undiscussed or unchallenged. It doesn't matter whether a person is compassionate or not, this is an open forum and as such views can be agreed with, disagreed with, discussed and challenged. Frankly, I don't believe your story belongs here, because your situation was as far removed for Toffee's as it was possible to be. :) DD go for your life as you appear to be running this thread. Sorry for even speaking about death and dogs. I have no idea what you are talking about Nic, but it appears I have offended you and I am sorry. What I meant is that Toffee was a healthy dog, in the prime of life. Annie was elderly and her health heavily comprised. And I don't recall you ever mentioned it, so only from what I recall, I don't believe your father asked for her to be euthanised when he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I was with Kenny while he got the green dream, as heart broken as I was, I cuddled him & kissed him, his tail was wagging the whole time. RIP my beautiful boy. As sad as your losing Kenny is, I don't know what this has to do with someone asking for her dog to be killed when she died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WreckitWhippet Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I can honestly say that knowing my doggie friends as well as I do, if any of them had written in their will that they would like a certain dog euth'd, I'd carry out that wish for them. I would not keep the dog, rehome the dog or in any way disregard their wish or assume that any decision I would make would be a better choice for that dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdierikx Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Geez DD - who died and made you the forum police? You know that these sort of threads often meander around various angles of a topic... T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 And I don't recall you ever mentioned it, so only from what I recall, I don't believe your father asked for her to be euthanised when he died. God how rude! What's it got to do with you anyway. Nic made a heartfelt post because the story touched a chord because of something that happened not long ago and now you're having a go at her because your posts judging someone you dont know and based on a Daily Mail article werent well received? Bloody hell. Talk about pitchforks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 these sort of threads often meander around various angles of a topic... T. I agree ... and often a good thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 these sort of threads often meander around various angles of a topic... T. I agree ... and often a good thing. Indeed - ..the ebbs & flows , varying contributions , exchanging ideas ... :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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