Guidedog Pts...

[aussielover]

I think it is sad all round

I can sort of understand why the owner wanted this, although I would never do it myself. I feel sad that the owner thought this was the best option for the dog.

It is very sad that the dog lost it's life so early but as someone else said, there are much worse things than a peaceful death.

It is also a shame that someone else potentially missed out on a service dog but at the same time, if it was home-trained then there is no guarantee it would have been suitable for another person.

Most dogs, adapt very well to change. If raised and trained by a guide dog association it would have likely coped very well with a change of owner, as the ones who can't cope never make it through the training stage. I know of a few dogs who had to be returned to their puppy-raisers as they didn't cope with being away from their puppy raising family. My lab would be happy to go off with someone else and works just as well (if not better) for other people.

However this may not have been the case with this particular dog.

I don't think anyone can make an informed judgement without actually knowing the dog and the people involved with the case.

[Christina]

Can someone explain why it's cruel?

Yes that was puzzling me too.

While it may not be ethically right to some the dog was humanely euthanised by a vet, which is more than some pound & welfare dogs get when the method used is shooting or gassing which seems to be legal & accepted.

Neither the family or the vet deserve death threats over this.

It was a private, family matter( not a public issue for discussion )that may not meet the approval of people but there was no cruelty involved.

Many cats & dogs are euthanised daily for far more trivial matters than the owner died.

[Maddy]

I agree that some people can't believe that a dog they've been so close with, could ever find an equally happy home after they'd died. Or even bond with another owner.

Bravest & most sensible elderly lady I know of.... was facing failing health. She made a decision. While she was alive & reasonably well so could control the situation, she would find a new home for her beloved 10 yr old p/b tibbie. She wanted the comfort of seeing... & knowing... that her little dog was happy & settled without her.

It threw a few people she asked for help, at first. But, as she pointed out.... she was doing something sooner rather than later.... & she'd be in control of who her dog would go to.

Lot of people helped .... even a great lady from Cav Rescue Qld, who did an assessment of the tibbie. And whose assessment later on proved to be spot on.

Well, that little tib found a brilliant home with Sydney people who already owned 2 tibbies. As soon as she put her paws into that house, she settled and has a wonderful life. Many months later, the elderly lady came to stay, & saw for herself that her dog had made a new life. And didn't worry when she left.

But not all dogs can adapt to being in a new place away from their owners. I know of some who have adapted, but some don't. I think the original owner knows best whether their dog would be happy being re-homed or not.

By this same logic though, dogs that are dumped by their owners at pounds are also better off dead because they too could be mourning the loss of their family and "suffering" without them.

I've actually had a greyhound surrendered to me from a pet home and the poor girl didn't eat for a week, she was terribly heartbroken. Until a few weeks later when she'd forgotten about them entirely, was eating like a horse and very happy. She just needed time to settle into the new routine in the new place and that was it. Dogs aren't attached to us in the same way that we're attached to them. Anthropomorphising them does them no good, especially when it ends this way- with a healthy, young dog, dead.

[Nic.B]

Gosh, I should not have read this, it has stirred so much emotion within me.

My Dad passed away in January after a long battle with cancer. It was a very difficult death and it broke my heart to see the life of such a strong, vibrant man disapear in front of me.

Mum and Dad's goldie, Annie was the light of their lives. I could not tell you how many times they told me Annie had changed their lives. Annie was there through everything they had been through for 13 years. My goodness was she adored! Mum and Dad's entire lives revolved around their princess. If they were asked to visit friends or stay overnight somewhere they would not go unless Annie could come too and sleep with them.

Annie did not leave Dad's side, she had a ramp that Dad made for the car and we used that on Dad's hospital bed toward the end so that Dad and Annie could spend time together.

Two days before Dad died Dad became very emotional when he saw Annie. That was the last time Dad saw Annie, Annie stayed with Dad, though Dad was in and out of consious.

The day after Dad died Annie crashed. She had had a tick about a week before and Annie was seen by the vet, she showed no symptoms at all. After 24 hour vet care for 7 days (and an $8,000 vet bill) Mum made the decision to pts. I can honestly say there was no reason why Annie would not have pulled through, the vet could not even explain it.

About a month before Dad died Mum rang me and told me she believed Annie was preparing to die as she would spend long periods of time sitting on her own outside (which was unusual). That freaked me out a bit, though I just tried to reasure Mum.

There is no way on this earth Dad would have taken Annies life (as in the OP) once he died. My family and I honestly believe Annie wished to be with my Dad. While devastating for all of us, it is a comfort to know Dad and Annie are together.

For me this sort of situation is very personal and it is also very individual. Reading the OP, I agree this dog was only young, she didnt have any health or behavioural issues and obviously had an enormous amount of life and love to offer. They also had the support of the Guide Dog org.

It is natural for a dog to grieve for their owners, I have seen it endlessly at my local shelter. Particularly dogs owner surrendered. Honestly, it may take a few days though these dogs quickly 'look to' and bond with the people who are meeting their needs (even in a shelter environment).

Going by the OP I belive that it was a selfish act to take this dogs life along with hers. It is a shame this was not dicussed sooner. Perhaps if this lady had been reassured and had an opportunity to be involved in the decision making process of rehome after her death she may have felt differently?

The only rescue I have ever had returned was from a lady who was diagnosed with a terminal illness six months after adoption. We spoke at great length for many months, this lovely lady was deeply distressed as she adored this dog, she had my full support.

I wanted to allow this lady to make her own decisions and to be part of the decision making process. Once she was unable to walk the dog twice a day she decided it was time.

Needless to say the little bug moved into a fabulous home which this lovely lady was delighted with. I also sent her family updates and photos until she passed away.

Sorry about such a long post.

[Loving my Oldies]

I must be one hardened bitch then. A dog peacefully put to sleep doesn't really rate a mention when you consider the cruelty and suffering that occurs in this world.

By that logic, only cases (of anything) judged to be extreme should be discussed .

So you would ignore a child who was been beaten, because somewhere else in the world a child is being raped. You would ignore and not discuss a dog who is on a metre chain because somewhere else in the world a dog is being savagely beaten. Now don't accuse me of being over the top or over emotional, because that is the way your post come across.

Very flawed and, frankly, very scary logic. In fact it is not logical at all.

[Are You Serious Jo]

I must be one hardened bitch then. A dog peacefully put to sleep doesn't really rate a mention when you consider the cruelty and suffering that occurs in this world.

By that logic, only cases (of anything) judged to be extreme should be discussed .

So you would ignore a child who was been beaten, because somewhere else in the world a child is being raped. You would ignore and not discuss a dog who is on a metre chain because somewhere else in the world a dog is being savagely beaten. Now don't accuse me of being over the top or over emotional, because that is the way your post come across.

Very flawed and, frankly, very scary logic. In fact it is not logical at all.

Your comparisons are flawed, no body hurt the dog. Your examples both involve pain and distress. This dog just went to sleep. There was no cruelty or pain involved at all. I do understand some people are upset when young healthy dog is PTS but there was no cruelty involved.

[Loving my Oldies]

I have to say I am getting pretty jacked off with all these posts about "my dog this and my dog that". For sure, there are some dogs with such severe behavioural and/or psychological issues that there probably wouldn't be too many people who could cope with them.

Toffee was a trained dog, young, healthy, in the prime of her life. And those who are asking where is the cruelty, well all I can say is that you are arrogant and very short sighted.

Cruelty is done when a life is taken unnecessarily, whether the creature knows that life is being taken is beside the point. Those doing the taking know.

And for my own "my dog this and my dog that". My Danny is 14. There is no way I would ask that he be killed if I died. He is happy, healthy, enjoys life and, to me, it would be arrogance in the extreme sense to believe that he could not be happy if I weren't around.

[Are You Serious Jo]

No, cruelty is an act that results in pain or distress to the organism involved, you can't just make up definitions for words. What you really man is that it is unjust :laugh: What would happen to Danny if you had no family able to care for him? It isn't about whether the dog can adjust to a new home, it's about the uncertainty of their future. What about people who have no one who can take in their dog for the rest of it's natural life? What should those people do?

[Rosetta]

So you don't think that a dog may have some awareness of what is about to happen to them in that final moment? I have heard differently - that the dog does have some sense of impending death when being PTS.

I can see where people would think it cruel.

[Loving my Oldies]

Your argument totally lacks logic and judgement.

We are not discussing other people and other dogs. We are discussing the fact (one many posters are totally missing or deliberately avoiding simply so they can bang their own discordant drums) that a guide dog, healthy, happy, highly trained, in the prime of life was killed because of the arrogance, self centred and self rigtheous attitude of a poorly advised woman and her family.

[Loving my Oldies]

No, cruelty is an act that results in pain or distress to the organism involved,

And of course you know, unequivocally, that Toffee did not experience pain or distress.

[RL1]

It seems a waste of an guide dog, however as the owner of an animal, you have every right to request it be PTS.

Maybe, but it still doesn't make it right. Should not be the owners right IMO. This dog could've found another owner in need of an assistance dog. Selfish owner.

[RL1]

..double post

Edited April 7, 2013 by RL1

[Loving my Oldies]

It seems a waste of an guide dog, however as the owner of an animal, you have every right to request it be PTS.

Maybe, but it still doesn't make it right. Should not be the owners right IMO. This dog could've found another owner in need of an assistance dog. Selfish owner.

Selfish AND cruel.

[WreckitWhippet]

It seems a waste of an guide dog, however as the owner of an animal, you have every right to request it be PTS.

Maybe, but it still doesn't make it right. Should not be the owners right IMO. This dog could've found another owner in need of an assistance dog. Selfish owner.

Dogs are considered property and the day animal rights get their way and dogs are considered anything other than property will be a sad day for dogs and owners, who will no longer be able to choose the fate of their pets.

If an owner chooses to take their dog to the grave with them, because they believe that it's in the best interest of their dog, then so be it. There are fate's worse than death for an animal and owner has every right determine the fate of their animals.

[Nic.B]

No, cruelty is an act that results in pain or distress to the organism involved, you can't just make up definitions for words. What you really man is that it is unjust :laugh: What would happen to Danny if you had no family able to care for him? It isn't about whether the dog can adjust to a new home, it's about the uncertainty of their future. What about people who have no one who can take in their dog for the rest of it's natural life? What should those people do?

Rev Jo, you know I respect your opinion and I do agree that at times (in experienced, qualified hands) euthenasia is very much the most humane and the last gift we can offer dogs with unrehomable issues.

My greatest struggle with the OP is that the dog was only five years old and had no behavioural or health issues. She could have moved into a great home.

The owner also had the support of Guide Dogs. I have been through more than one death of a family member, cancer and or a lengthy death is not nice at all.

Though one thing terminal illness offers is that you have the benefit of TIME to make decisions and say goodbye which some people are not afforded (leave the house and are hit by a car, bus or even worse) they just dont come home.

As I said earlier, respect and good support needs to be afforded during death and the decisons that are made regarding pets.

Though (only going on the details offered in the OP) I believe Toffee had a good chance an opportunity to move forward and find the home of her dreams.

[Nic.B]

It seems a waste of an guide dog, however as the owner of an animal, you have every right to request it be PTS.

Maybe, but it still doesn't make it right. Should not be the owners right IMO. This dog could've found another owner in need of an assistance dog. Selfish owner.

Dogs are considered property and the day animal rights get their way and dogs are considered anything other than property will be a sad day for dogs and owners, who will no longer be able to choose the fate of their pets.

If an owner chooses to take their dog to the grave with them, because they believe that it's in the best interest of their dog, then so be it. There are fate's worse than death for an animal and owner has every right determine the fate of their animals.

Sorry, though the "dogs are considered property" line shits me to tears. The fact is that YES dogs are considered property via current law, the current laws have NOTHING to do with animal rights or animal welfare. How would they?

Yes, a vase on my table is considered property just as my dogs are which serously gives me the shits.

[persephone]

I believe Toffee had a good chance an opportunity to move forward and find the home of her dreams.

and one of the wonderful things about dogs is that they do not have the burden of thinking in this manner ...so what weighs humans down as a concern ... a fear of future happenings... is not detracting from a dog's 'day-to-day'

Toffee would have been with her owner , and reacted to that deterioration in health , for sure .It would have been hard . A lot of routines etc would have changed, and their working relationship was no more. Toffee would have had to adjust ... Then, presuming Toffee was given a final vet appointment , my guess is that Toffee would have gone along with some trepidation ..as her owner was no longer around ...but I choose to believe she was not suffering due to what was about to happen , and therefore nothing was done which could be classed as cruelty knowingly inflicted.

We all obviously view this with very differing Points of View , and , if Toffee has left a legacy , it is one of people now being made more aware of their pets, of plans for the future, and of what they may do to make transitions the best they can for everyone.

Hopefully now, more folks will put thought into what their dog/cat/ pet will have to cope with should they fall ill ..and where that pet will finally end up.

[Guest donatella]

Toffee certainly endured a great ending *insert sarcasm here*. It's owner terminally ill (dogs are perceptive of this) and then being led to a vet for their final moment, not by it's owner to be hugged and comforted either. I very much doubt it was a peaceful happy ending.

[persephone]

a peaceful happy ending.

I haven't seen this mentioned anywhere ? vet visits are always a bit stressful . As for not having an owner present ... I have seen so many owners choose to NOT be with their pet for that last injection ...so that's not unique to this case .

(having a grieving owner present will often result in an anxious/fidgety animal , unfortunately )