persephone Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I personally think keeping your word is the ethical thing to do regardless of your thoughts on the matter. For this scenario , indeed . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Who are you to make that call that your friend is irrational? I didn't call the friend 'irrational'. I said the fear, which I'd specifically teased out.... that she feared for the dog's future was not rational, because there already was confidence in a new home. If no such confidence or reassurance already exists, then it's not an irrational fear. Edited April 7, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Right, so in your own way you're saying that if I follow the owner's wishes, I am being unethical. Well, now you're just being rude. My previous answer about attitude to another's different ethical choice: Someone else would not make that choice but would PTS the dog .... saying they wouldn't betray the person's wish. But I'd weigh up the young dog's 'best interest' to live out its life.... against the thinking of a person suffering & facing death. Ethically, neither of those solutions would be right or wrong. Each of us would say we made a call according to how we sorted thro' our own values. Best any of us can do. Edited April 7, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Do you think you have any legal say over a dog you give away? You are very mistaken if you do, therefore the owner's fear is entirely rational, you CANNOT guarantee a good home UNLESS you keep the dog yourself. You keep ignoring the key points. Dog will be out of your hands, no control! The only way to ensure a good home is found permanently is to keep the dog. Still doesn't make up for the fact you lied to a dying friend but at least the dog would be ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Right, so in your own way you're saying that if I follow the owner's wishes, I am being unethical. Well, now you're just being rude. My previous answer about attitude to another's different ethical choice: Someone else would not make that choice but would PTS the dog .... saying they wouldn't betray the person's wish. But I'd weigh up the young dog's 'best interest' to live out its life.... against the thinking of a person suffering & facing death. Ethically, neither of those solutions would be right or wrong. Each of us would say we made a call according to how we sorted thro' our own values. Best any of us can do. I am with Jo on this one. You can make no guarantees for the dog's safety after the dog leaves your care, therefore you rehoming the dog is not in the dog's best interests. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pebbles Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I made the decision to PTS months ago when I updated my will. I'm not dying (just yet) am of sound mind and know exactly why I came to that conclusion so if anyone betrayed my trust in them I'd haunt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Hang on hang on, so are you saying that it would be in the best interest of EVERY DOG who needs to be rehomed that they are PTS because there are no guarantees for the dogs safety? What are rescues doing then? Or am I reading things wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Do you think you have any legal say over a dog you give away? You are very mistaken if you do, therefore the owner's fear is entirely rational, you CANNOT guarantee a good home UNLESS you keep the dog yourself. You keep ignoring the key points. Dog will be out of your hands, no control! The only way to ensure a good home is found permanently is to keep the dog. Still doesn't make up for the fact you lied to a dying friend but at least the dog would be ok. You're really are getting very emotional. I still have the same view of my values in the specific scenario I've described. Made my ethical choices in relation to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I'm starting to think we need a list of people we can trust to carry out our wishes, people who trust we know what is right for us and our dogs. If you are terminal it's not as bad but if you go via accident then there could be issues. I thought something like this had to be carried out by law if you specify it in a proper will? As long as someone doesn't kidnap your dog and hand it out to anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheridan Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Hang on hang on, so are you saying that it would be in the best interest of EVERY DOG who needs to be rehomed that they are PTS because there are no guarantees for the dogs safety? What are rescues doing then? Or am I reading things wrong? You are reading things wrong. Rescues deal with already abandoned dogs. Different scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Do you think you have any legal say over a dog you give away? You are very mistaken if you do, therefore the owner's fear is entirely rational, you CANNOT guarantee a good home UNLESS you keep the dog yourself. You keep ignoring the key points. Dog will be out of your hands, no control! The only way to ensure a good home is found permanently is to keep the dog. Still doesn't make up for the fact you lied to a dying friend but at least the dog would be ok. You're really are getting very emotional. I still have the same view of my values in the specific scenario I've described. Made my ethical choices in relation to it. I'm not emotional, just trying to communicate with you in your italics language, thought it might get through because you keep ignoring the relevant parts of the argument :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
persephone Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 I 'm starting to think we need a list of people we can trust to carry out our wishes, people who trust we know what is right for us and our dogs. If you are terminal it's not as bad but if you go via accident then there could be issues. I thought something like this had to be carried out by law if you specify it in a proper will? As long as someone doesn't kidnap your dog and hand it out to anyone. yes.... but Most of the folks I trust would wimp out at that sort of wish.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) It's called having a little faith and not being so bitter on every one and everything in life. I don't believe the worst in everyone and everything in life and yes I believe they could have rehomed a health 5 year old trained labrador to someone SAFELY in her best interest. Had she been an elderly lab I would have entirely sympathised with this idea and even congratulated the dying woman for being so compassionate in thinking about her dogs final days also. Edited April 7, 2013 by donatella Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 A guide dog is different to a pet. I have rapidly lost faith because we have one person who said she'd ignore the owner's wishes and from comments I suspect a few more. These are dog people who should understand how unreliable some people can be with pets. Now I'm going to do more research to make sure that "do gooders" cannot over turn my wishes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 (edited) Right, so in your own way you're saying that if I follow the owner's wishes, I am being unethical. Well, now you're just being rude. My previous answer about attitude to another's different ethical choice: Someone else would not make that choice but would PTS the dog .... saying they wouldn't betray the person's wish. But I'd weigh up the young dog's 'best interest' to live out its life.... against the thinking of a person suffering & facing death. Ethically, neither of those solutions would be right or wrong. Each of us would say we made a call according to how we sorted thro' our own values. Best any of us can do. I am with Jo on this one. You can make no guarantees for the dog's safety after the dog leaves your care, therefore you rehoming the dog is not in the dog's best interests. The same measures apply to rehoming any dog as well as possible. The dog I rehomed for the elderly lady who's health is failing (& facing the prospect of death in the near future) is doing nicely in the new home. You seem to be arguing that I should have said to her..... there's no 100% guarantee of your dog being safe in a new home, it'd be better PTS. Edited April 7, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin Jac Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 This thread has really got me thinking. My family member who wants her dogs pts when she passes has discussed her wishes with me and with another family member. I have not agreed that I would do that. I sincerely hope the decision will not be mine because I will be very torn. I'm pretty sure it will be, though Without going into too much detail, I can say that she is a negligent owner. It might seem very strange to some but I would feel terrible if her dogs didn't get a chance of a happier life after her passing. But I don't think I could go against her wishes if it was my responsibility. If it happens that it is someone else's decision I will support them with whatever they decide to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 Right, so in your own way you're saying that if I follow the owner's wishes, I am being unethical. Well, now you're just being rude. My previous answer about attitude to another's different ethical choice: Someone else would not make that choice but would PTS the dog .... saying they wouldn't betray the person's wish. But I'd weigh up the young dog's 'best interest' to live out its life.... against the thinking of a person suffering & facing death. Ethically, neither of those solutions would be right or wrong. Each of us would say we made a call according to how we sorted thro' our own values. Best any of us can do. I am with Jo on this one. You can make no guarantees for the dog's safety after the dog leaves your care, therefore you rehoming the dog is not in the dog's best interests. The same measures apply to rehoming any dog as well as possible. The dog I rehomed for the elderly lady who's health is failing is doing nicely. You seem to be arguing that I should have said to her..... there's no 100% guarantee of your dog being safe in a new home, it'd be better PTS. You want to rehome your dog fine, you have chosen to do so, it is your choice. But your friend who died made a choice and you would decide that you knew better than she did and did something she did not want. Do you see the difference, one makes a choice, one has her choice taken away. How would you feel if you died and your "friend" decided that your dogs were better off being PTS? What if they lied to you and knew they'd do it but told you they wouldn't? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest donatella Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 It is a big ask to have someone PTS a very healthy young dog for someone though. Yes it is easy enough to say you will do it but to follow the action through takes a strong person. I could never do it and I will never say to someone that I will do it for them. If they have a young dog that they wish PTS when they die and they asked me to do it I would say no. I would offer to rehome but not to PTS as there is no way I could PTS a healthy dog and live with myself. Sorry but not for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tintin Jac Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 It is a big ask to have someone PTS a very healthy young dog for someone though. Yes it is easy enough to say you will do it but to follow the action through takes a strong person. I could never do it and I will never say to someone that I will do it for them. If they have a young dog that they wish PTS when they die and they asked me to do it I would say no. I would offer to rehome but not to PTS as there is no way I could PTS a healthy dog and live with myself. Sorry but not for me. What if it stated that thy wanted you to arrange PTS in their will? You haven't said yes but it is now your responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Are You Serious Jo Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 No one is saying that everyone should be fine doing it, it's perfectly understandable that a lot of people couldn't do it. The thing I have issue with is lying and pretending that you would when you know you won't. That's deceitful, just say no rather than lie. I may be harsh as all buggery at times but integrity is important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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