Guidedog Pts...

[Are You Serious Jo]

There is a big difference between someone saying will you take my dog, it's yours now and when I die will you take my dog to the vet and have it PTS.

[Dame Aussie]

Your argument totally lacks logic and judgement.

We are not discussing other people and other dogs. We are discussing the fact (one many posters are totally missing or deliberately avoiding simply so they can bang their own discordant drums) that a guide dog, healthy, happy, highly trained, in the prime of life was killed because of the arrogance, self centred and self rigtheous attitude of a poorly advised woman and her family.

You're the one banging your discordant drum. You've made a judgement about a dead woman and her family based on a Daily Mail Online article. Wow. The woman is DEAD. She made a decision based on the dog she knew. You didnt know the dog but you take it upon yourself to call her an arrogant, self centred and self righteous person. You dont know her either!

This matter should never have made the tabloids. Funerals are private matters and the fact this has ended up with death threats to the son at this time as well as a Vet assistant is just disgraceful!

Pretty much this.

I did say that things aren't as simple when it comes to a guide dog as it probably would have a safe future. But the rest of my comments were about the blanket condemnation of wanting to make sure your dog will never suffer. My shih tzu is coming with me no question, he's getting old and has done his time in the pound. My coolie is a lot younger and if I die tomorrow he would have probably another 12 years. I know none of my family can take him if I die so who would like to put their hand up to guarantee him a permanent home for the next 12 or so years? Who should I put down as taking him on, full name for the will please :laugh:

I'll take him! :)

[Dame Aussie]

I'm not into condemning shelters who have to PTS young animals if they haven't got room, worse things than being dead can happen. I try not to be a hypocrite.

Very true Jo.

I can definitely understand the position and even sympathise to a degree, I just think it would be good if they had made an effort to rehome before making that decision.

As for it being cruel or not, I don't think it's cruel in the sense that the dog suffered, I think we see it as cruel because that's how we as humans perceive it, maybe?

I dunno, just really sad.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Aussie3

[Are You Serious Jo]

No take backs :laugh:

[Sheridan]

[

Who are you to decide what is in the best interests of a dog that isn't yours?

It has become mine because the owner has indicated I was now to act on its behalf, following her death.

Same applies to the someone else who'd make a different choice, if in the same situation. That person, too, would've got the nod to act on the dog's behalf, after her death.

In both our cases, that permits us to take a next action. I would rehome. The other person would take it to the vet to be PTS.

We both would simply have made different ethical choices.

And even tho' it doesn't fit my value system, I wouldn't abuse the person who made the opposite choice.

No, the owner has asked you to pts the dog after the owner dies. If the owner simply leaves you the dog then yes, do what you like. The first scenario puts you in breach of trust.

[Steve]

In my case the promise could have been asked of others but my friend knew me to be someone who keeps promises .When she was begging she told me she couldnt trust this with anyone else because she knew this about me. When she had died if I had breached her trust I would have felt I made that promise to her under false pretenses and cheated her out of perhaps finding someone else who who would have. It would take me all night to go through what bought me to knowing I had no choice if I wanted peace. My promise had nothing to do with dogs but it was something that I would never ever have considered doing if not for that promise and bad enough that Ive never shared it with anyone alive.

Hopefully no one reading this will ever be in a place of pain and sadness and fear and misery as they feel their lives slipping away and until you live it and probably even if you do live it because we are all different we cant understand why one person wants one thing over an other as a dying wish. She asked for it her son gave it to her even after she didn't know anymore what he was doing - I get it.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Steve

[Dame Aussie]

No take backs :laugh:

He's a Coolie! As if :laugh: bring it on :laugh:

[Are You Serious Jo]

He's not just any coolie, he's a coolie that will work all day and then has a perfectly working off switch Plus living with you would be like living with me because we pretty much think the same :laugh:

[mita]

[

Who are you to decide what is in the best interests of a dog that isn't yours?

It has become mine because the owner has indicated I was now to act on its behalf, following her death.

Same applies to the someone else who'd make a different choice, if in the same situation. That person, too, would've got the nod to act on the dog's behalf, after her death.

In both our cases, that permits us to take a next action. I would rehome. The other person would take it to the vet to be PTS.

We both would simply have made different ethical choices.

And even tho' it doesn't fit my value system, I wouldn't abuse the person who made the opposite choice.

No, the owner has asked you to pts the dog after the owner dies. If the owner simply leaves you the dog then yes, do what you like. The first scenario puts you in breach of trust.

So you'd be the 'someone else' in this scenario. You'd PTS/

Your value system would say that a dying person's wish to have a young healthy dog PTS is not over-ridden by a consideration that the dog is young & can live a life.

My value system reverses those... especially as I'd carefully found out from the owner that their reason was a genuine fear for the dog's future. Which I already knew was unfounded. So there was no real reason to fear for the dog's future. It was not a rational fear. I'd put a photo in the casket & rehome. So the little dog would 'go' with the owner, by proxy.

This is what ethical decision making is all about. Your referred to your value system.... I, to mine.

Edited April 7, 2013 by mita

[Dame Aussie]

He's not just any coolie, he's a coolie that will work all day and then has a perfectly working off switch Plus living with you would be like living with me because we pretty much think the same :laugh:

:laugh: sounds just like my Aussie, they would be besties :D

[Are You Serious Jo]

But once you rehome that dog you lose all control over the outcome, which then makes your friend's fear in danger of happening. The only way you can make sure that the dog will be safe for the rest of it's life is to keep it yourself. Your post is a perfect example of what I wouldn't want happening, the dog could end up anywhere. If you want to keep the dog yourself then I can understand breaking your word because then the worst couldn't happen. But to break your word then hand the dog off to someone else

[mita]

But once you rehome that dog you lose all control over the outcome, which then makes your friend's fear in danger of happening. The only way you can make sure that the dog will be safe for the rest of it's life is to keep it yourself. Your post is a perfect example of what I wouldn't want happening, the dog could end up anywhere. If you want to keep the dog yourself then I can understand breaking your word because then the worst couldn't happen. But to break your word then hand the dog off to someone else

No point in directing to the fact that my scenario depended on the fact that I already had certainty of a good home. And only after I couldn't persuade the owner of that.

And I've already posted how I helped rehome a small dog for an elderly lady who wanted to do it, before she died. Which I did .... to the best of homes. And I finished my post by saying how the little dog ' remains on my radar' ....& how I placed myself as second on the queue.

You won't be asking me to PTS your young, healthy dog after you die.

Edited April 7, 2013 by mita

[Are You Serious Jo]

You can be on the radar all you like but if the new owner wants to get rid of the dog anywhere they like you can't do a thing. Like desexing and breeder contracts, you are powerless once they have ownership of the dog. Imagine how your friend would feel knowing you took it upon yourself to not only go back on your word but then not keep the dog yourself. Why not just tell them you can't follow through so they can find someone who will keep their word. Don't you find lying about it an issue?

[pebbles]

I personally think keeping your word is the ethical thing to do regardless of your thoughts on the matter. I've told my lot that I'll come back and haunt them if they don't follow my wishes for my dogs.

[Are You Serious Jo]

Yes, if you have problems with the request just don't agree to it in the first place. I sort of always thought people held a dying wish as sacred but I guess not.

[persephone]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that if you are terminal, take your dog in yourself to PTS because you can't reply on others to do it.

*nods*

[mita]

Don't you find lying about it an issue?

I said the little dog would 'go with the owner'.... & it did, by proxy.\

It was dealing with a fear I'd already established as irrational.

[mita]

One thing I've learned from this thread is that if you are terminal, take your dog in yourself to PTS because you can't reply on others to do it.

*nods*

Yes, if possible, take your own young, healthy dog to be PTS ... because others may have an entirely different ethical view of what you're asking.

And people will make their own decisions about the ethics of their own actions, as they should.

Edited April 7, 2013 by mita

[Are You Serious Jo]

Who are you to make that call that your friend is irrational? I've already shown you how her fear could become very real because you would rehome the dog leaving you with no legal control over the outcome. I'd say if she was your friend her fear is very justified! Not only would her fear for the dog be realised but she is dealing with someone who didn't have the integrity to either follow her wishes or decline the request in the first place. I'm quite surprised that someone who espouses ethical behaviour could do something so lacking in integrity. You have no right to deceive a friend because you have placed your moral sensibilities above hers. I don't know what would be worse, lying to a dying friend about something so fundamentally important to her or the losing control of her loved dog.

[Sheridan]

[

Who are you to decide what is in the best interests of a dog that isn't yours?

It has become mine because the owner has indicated I was now to act on its behalf, following her death.

Same applies to the someone else who'd make a different choice, if in the same situation. That person, too, would've got the nod to act on the dog's behalf, after her death.

In both our cases, that permits us to take a next action. I would rehome. The other person would take it to the vet to be PTS.

We both would simply have made different ethical choices.

And even tho' it doesn't fit my value system, I wouldn't abuse the person who made the opposite choice.

No, the owner has asked you to pts the dog after the owner dies. If the owner simply leaves you the dog then yes, do what you like. The first scenario puts you in breach of trust.

So you'd be the 'someone else' in this scenario. You'd PTS/

Your value system would say that a dying person's wish to have a young healthy dog PTS is not over-ridden by a consideration that the dog is young & can live a life.

My value system reverses those... especially as I'd carefully found out from the owner that their reason was a genuine fear for the dog's future. Which I already knew was unfounded. So there was no real reason to fear for the dog's future. It was not a rational fear. I'd put a photo in the casket & rehome. So the little dog would 'go' with the owner, by proxy.

This is what ethical decision making is all about. Your referred to your value system.... I, to mine.

Right, so in your own way you're saying that if I follow the owner's wishes, I am being unethical. Well, now you're just being rude.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Sheridan