Food Aggression Towards The Cats

[Kavik]

I don't want stress around feeding time, so the easiest way to do that is to feed them all separately where they cannot get to the others' food. It is my old girl who is 13 who would steal all the food otherwise - she can be a bugger!

Teaching the cat to leave the dog's food alone or teaching the dog to tolerate the cat coming up while he is eating would both be difficult to teach, and would involve more stress and be less trustworthy than simply separating. Teaching the cat to leave the dog alone while eating would be more polite. If your dog is like mine it only takes 30 seconds to eat his dinner anyway!

[Salukifan]

To use another example:

Why would you want to train your dog never to leave your yard when you can shut the gate? My idiot next door neighbour tried this one. Dog was hit by a car.

Training not to do something is always a challenge.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[dancinbcs]

The absolute worst thing you can do with a dog that guards food is to take it away. This is a guaranteed way to escalate the problem and make the dog more likely to attack the cat as he will associate the cat coming near his food with it being taken away. The only hope you have to undo the harm you have already caused is to reward the dog with something extra special every time the cat goes near his bowl so he associates extra goodies with the presence of the cat near his bowl. I have always fed all my Border Collies together but I always supervise the entire meal. They know I am in charge of the food and will not allow other dogs to steal their food. I have never had one even attempt to guard food. My young JS however thinks everything belongs to him but he has gradually learnt the house rules about food and treats and is now easily managed with an occasional reprimand when he forgets his manners.

[RiverStar-Aura]

I personally wouldn't want to risk my cat by allowing it to wander about freely during meal times. Your two are completely different species so of course they're not going to interact in a friendly way at meal time. Even lions from the same pride fight and scrap over food and they're more often than not family/related.

My old dog Poochie and my current cat Calypso were inseparable like Milo and Otis, however, they were never fed together mostly because the cat grazes and the dogs are scoffers. I didn't want Poochie to have access to the cat's food and to have to try and ignore it 24/7, so they were kept apart.

My current two dogs and Callie are mortal enemies so no problems there; they're always separated because they don't like each other. The two dogs on the other hand, I can feed them dinner in separate bowls as close as 5cm apart. Zeus knows he has his bowl on the right and that Kirah's is on his left and vice versa. Of course they are supervised for the whole 30 seconds it takes them to finish, then it's the great bowl switcheroo, but there's never been an argument. I don't even have to separate them when they have bones. Each dog knows they get one each and they're both happy with that arrangement -- I don't even have to supervise by being in the yard. I am always hovering close by because there is no such thing as perfect!

I am curious though as to why you want to have your cats and dog roaming freely to interact with each other's meals and mealtime. I personally don't see how it would make any difference to their relationship if fed separately but that could be because I've never required it of my animals. I'm not trying to be rude here either, I really am curious.

[The Spotted Devil]

3 cats. 2 dogs. I train/give advice on both for a living. All get on famously - one cat wrestles with the dogs and grooms them. All fed separately in peace and quiet. If the dogs need to be fed later I put the cats away for 10 min. My cats are little pigs. My dogs have learned to defer to me if a cat slips through but I suspect that reflects our working relationship and the fact that I remove the cat immediately. The dogs trust that I will look after their interests. It's the cat that shouldn't be approaching the dog and my dogs certainly would never approach each other's or the cats' food under my supervision. To be honest I get grumpy when the cats try to pinch my dinner and certainly don't let them saunter off with a lamb chop in each paw!!!!

I'm too busy to consistently train the cats at meal times so I manage them :)

Edited April 5, 2013 by The Spotted Devil

[Dory the Doted One]

I socked a Housemates cat that tried to knick off with my bacon. (I must be food aggressive. :laugh: )

My daughter socked a Seagull that tried to knick off with her fish and chips. (It's hereditary! )

Fun aside. We have a dog and cat household. One of the cats is a very growly feral when she has chicken neck or wing and Dory is annoying when there is any food around. Dory body blocks if it is low value or up high to keep competition away. If it's her food in her bowl, we all leave her alone. I can take food from her if I absolutely have to, but I don't try to just cause I can. I don't want it to escalate beyond what we have. We do approach her bowl, but only when we are putting some more good stuff in there for her.

Dory used to be quite okay with people and other animals near her food bowl. I can't pinpoint when it all changed or even why.

So even despite things seeming to be fine, things can change and change without any obvious (to us numpties) reason.

I was surprised at the change and more than a little disappointed that my otherwise fine with food beastie, became a beast with food. But I didn't get too bent out of shape, we just changed and adapted.

And she isn't allowed to get away with the behaviour...because we just don't bother her when she eats. And she's fed away from the cats. (Because the kitten is silly and doesn't understand the concept of personal space. ;) )

[Dogsfevr]

The fact you think your dog is being a jerk is very sad especially a 4 month old pup

You have a very simple solution yet you wish to discipline the dog to make yourself feel better & prove your ideals will work.

They may do down the track but at present it isn't working & you are setting up a big failure with wanting to do it your way & it will be the animals that suffer .

Give the pup a break feed it separate & if you want a happy group that can eat & share train all the animals but this can take time .

Your pup hasn't been taught that sharing is fine but its been taught that a cat can do what it wants & when it does something natural it gets its food taken away & most likely your body language displaying a frustration at the pup.

Our dogs are also feed separate because we can monitor each dog & they can eat in a calm fashion .

You can pay mega bucks for professional help but fairly certain all will say the obvious feed else where .

Your cat is being rude,your pup is obviously getting fed up with it & your not addressing the signs except presuming its a jerk.

Your pup is being very patient & its seems you don't appreciate it but unless you open your eyes to what is happening this could end badly & it wont be the dogs fault.

Edited April 6, 2013 by showdog

[teekay]

Have to say the advice on here is spot on Collie Chaos. I understand it may have been quite a shock when you dog went for the cat and it is easy to 'blame' the dog for the behaviour.

I have 3 dogs. When I only had 2 everything was fine. Jenna knew that Mya was the dominant dog and I could feed them right next to each other no problems at all. Unfortunately Mya (the dominant one) is a slow eater but Jenna would finish hers and sloooooowly lie down facing away from Mya. She knew where she stood and all was good.

Then we introduce the puppy who obviously didn't have a clue. I supervised mealtimes for a while but TBH it became just easier to feed Luka (the puppy) separately. Mya was on edge the whole time looking to see if Luka was approaching and, well, how would you like to eat knowing that there was someone hovering, waiting to steal your food? Think about what that could do to the longer term relationship between your cat and dog. By the looks of the pictures they have a great relationship, other than meal times, and you wouldn't want to jeopardise that, I'm sure.

Luka is now 1 year old and the pecking order of the pack appears to be established so I can now feed them all together, under supervision. Luka will also just sit down when he has finished to wait for Mya to finish. However I do still tend to feed him separately because it just makes more sense.

I understand there are certain problems where management is not the correct approach but in this case, the dogs are fed twice a day for a few minutes so that's not a biggie at all.

I would point out that I think food aggression towards a human is a different matter entirely, but thankfully I have never had that problem.

[CollieChaos]

Show dog, I am INCREDIBLY offended by your post. How dare you make assumptions on myself, and the way I raise my animals, and that I would make my animals suffer because I expect them to behave appropriately. How would you know what his patience level is like? You havent even met him, or seen what he does. Assumptions are a dangerous thing. Dogs are a domestic animal, and in my eyes, no domestic animal should show aggression, ever. Natural or instinctive aggressive behaviors are not acceptable for a domestic animal, hence why breeders "test" the temperament of their animals. I breed rats, any rat that shows aggression to myself, or another rat, or is overly skittish without handling from a young age is promptly put to sleep. Now obviously I am not going to do that with my dog, hence why I have asked for help. People on this thread have done nothing but tell me I'm wrong, and that I'm not doing the right thing and that what my dog is doing is ok, and that I should separate them whilst they are eating, which to me, is just a band aid and does not address the problem at its source. I do not encourage the behaviour at all, I try to keep my cat away from him at feed times (mostly because its dog food, not cat food), but I do NOT want to spend the next 15 years on my toes around feed time for something that should be addressed now, when he is still young enough to correct the issue.

For the record, there has been no incidents for a few days now, the cat has come close to him whilst eating, but not eating from his bowl (because I have caught him early enough) and there has been no reaction.

Obviously, by the standards of some people on this forum, food aggression from dogs towards animals is ok. I have no idea what would make any one think this.

[megan_]

Whay if the cat eats his food? Do you just expect him to accept it? My dogs display no food aggression as you call it, but I always separate them. A friend of my dads had an ACD and a staffy who ate together for 8 years. Then, over a bone, the staffy killed the ACD.

People here don't think aggression is okay. They just don't believe in taking unnecessary risks with their animals. Food is life and death for fogs and they know it...

[persephone]

maybe I have it all wrong .... when puppies are small , and they go near mum's food ..she will eyeball them , then growl..then snap and/or push them away hard ,with her nose.

They get the message . is the Bitch being aggressive?

Our dogs have taught the cats exactly the same way ..... a warning ... then some action .It usually only happens once, and teh cat gets the message .If the cat did NOT get the message ..I guess I would be using a water squirt bottle on the cat , but I've never had to , luckily , and nowdays everyones is kept seperate..

Glad you have now corrected the cat , and I hope your pup is doing well.

[Salukifan]

Collie Chaos, you think posters here are inappropriately tolerant of aggression in dogs. No one said it was a good thing. But the general consensus is that aggression incidents over food are better prevented than cured, IF it can be cured.

You think any aggression in a domestic animal is not to be tolerated. You clearly have never owned horses. You separate them to feed them too.

We are at impasse. Good luck with your dog. Think carefully before getting a second one and you end up punishing this one for deterring rude puppy behaviour OK? The results don't tend to be good for the older dog or the pup.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[mixeduppup]

My cat is a jerk and will try and steal my dog's dinner. He had my dog bluffed and it would shrink away from the food bowl and let him eat it. After getting angry at the cat, the cat never returned and everyone was happy. Training the cat is the answer, no one ever thinks of going off at the cat lol

[CollieChaos]

Thanks for the well wishes Haredown.

No I have never owned horses, they are a creature I will always admire from a far. Theyre beautiful, but not for me.

You don't need to worry about the cat punishment, he knows the sound of the squirt bottle all to well. Most of the time you just need to shake the water bottle and he will run off/stop doing whatever he is doing. My other 3 cats are "angels" compared to him lol!!

[juice]

Dogs can't speak, they use other tools.

If i am unhappy with what someone is doing, i ask them to stop, your dog is doing the same to the cat in dog language.

Its really simple, dogs will show aggression when every other language has not been heeded.

I am trying to explain this so you get it,( as clearly you don't), your dog is not being a "jerk", he is being a dog!!!!.

I have no idea why you can't see it, or choose not to.

Next time don't ask for advice if you can't take it.

[RiverStar-Aura]

Show dog, I am INCREDIBLY offended by your post. How dare you make assumptions on myself, and the way I raise my animals, and that I would make my animals suffer because I expect them to behave appropriately. How would you know what his patience level is like? You havent even met him, or seen what he does. Assumptions are a dangerous thing. Dogs are a domestic animal, and in my eyes, no domestic animal should show aggression, ever. Natural or instinctive aggressive behaviors are not acceptable for a domestic animal, hence why breeders "test" the temperament of their animals. I breed rats, any rat that shows aggression to myself, or another rat, or is overly skittish without handling from a young age is promptly put to sleep. Now obviously I am not going to do that with my dog, hence why I have asked for help. People on this thread have done nothing but tell me I'm wrong, and that I'm not doing the right thing and that what my dog is doing is ok, and that I should separate them whilst they are eating, which to me, is just a band aid and does not address the problem at its source. I do not encourage the behaviour at all, I try to keep my cat away from him at feed times (mostly because its dog food, not cat food), but I do NOT want to spend the next 15 years on my toes around feed time for something that should be addressed now, when he is still young enough to correct the issue.

For the record, there has been no incidents for a few days now, the cat has come close to him whilst eating, but not eating from his bowl (because I have caught him early enough) and there has been no reaction.

Obviously, by the standards of some people on this forum, food aggression from dogs towards animals is ok. I have no idea what would make any one think this.

You should never become complacent as far as animals are concerned. If you are going to continue feeding the animals together then supervising them for the next 15 years is what you've signed on for. You can NEVER guarantee that your dog will never scrap to death with your cat no matter how well it's trained.

Breeders can temperament test until the cows come home, but even they aren't going to be able to foresee how a particular puppy will grow up. As far as I'm aware, and I'm not a breeder so feel free to correct me, temperaments are also determined by how the pup is brought up -- hence why a lot of abused rescued dogs can be quite nasty and bitey. That has nothing to do with the dog's breeding but more about how it's been brought up and treated.

Rats are also very different to dogs. If dog breeders started killing off 6 to 8 week old puppies because they started showing signs of food guarding, there'd be a huge public uproar. Why not home to be an only dog etc? No one minds if a rat is killed for being skittish or just for the sake of killing a rat. To most people, rats are vermin and will always be treated as such, which is sad because I find them fascinating personally!!

If you don't want to separate, you could try working with the cat too. Every time the naughty boy goes near your puppy, pick him up (the cat) and take him out of the room. He looks like an oriental breed (Burmese, Siamese etc) so they can be taught like dogs too. That way, you're not just teaching the puppy to leave the cat alone, but you're teaching the cat that at food time, he's to keep away.

Good luck -- you have a real cutie pup there!! :D

[sheena]

Show dog, I am INCREDIBLY offended by your post. How dare you make assumptions on myself, and the way I raise my animals, and that I would make my animals suffer because I expect them to behave appropriately. How would you know what his patience level is like? You havent even met him, or seen what he does. Assumptions are a dangerous thing. Dogs are a domestic animal, and in my eyes, no domestic animal should show aggression, ever. Natural or instinctive aggressive behaviors are not acceptable for a domestic animal, hence why breeders "test" the temperament of their animals. I breed rats, any rat that shows aggression to myself, or another rat, or is overly skittish without handling from a young age is promptly put to sleep. Now obviously I am not going to do that with my dog, hence why I have asked for help. People on this thread have done nothing but tell me I'm wrong, and that I'm not doing the right thing and that what my dog is doing is ok, and that I should separate them whilst they are eating, which to me, is just a band aid and does not address the problem at its source. I do not encourage the behaviour at all, I try to keep my cat away from him at feed times (mostly because its dog food, not cat food), but I do NOT want to spend the next 15 years on my toes around feed time for something that should be addressed now, when he is still young enough to correct the issue.

For the record, there has been no incidents for a few days now, the cat has come close to him whilst eating, but not eating from his bowl (because I have caught him early enough) and there has been no reaction.

Obviously, by the standards of some people on this forum, food aggression from dogs towards animals is ok. I have no idea what would make any one think this.

Just wondering if you feed the rats together with the cat. Or is that different because they are rats, not puppies. Do you let your cat in with the rats & expect it to show no aggression towards the rats.

[mixeduppup]

I feed my dogs all together except for one, as she prefers to eat on her own. She'll growl and snap at the other dogs if they try and take her food, but I think it's bad to punish the one responding instead of the one instigating, so I tell off the food thieves and remove her and she's fine. Would you punish the child who yells and screams because someone started eating his ice cream whilst he had it in his hand or the child that started eating the ice cream that wasn't his? Sometimes aggressive reactions are not aggressive reactions at all but rather communication between two animals about boundaries and animals need to communicate. If you'd prefer that your dog doesn't tell the cat off for stealing his food either spray the cat as soon as he starts walking toward the food or separate them during meal time. I'd be pissed off if someone started eating my food without permission.

Edited April 6, 2013 by mixeduppup

[SkySoaringMagpie]

Obviously, by the standards of some people on this forum, food aggression from dogs towards animals is ok. I have no idea what would make any one think this.

I feed all of our dogs separately, and I supervise to ensure that no-one takes anyone else's food. Like you I dislike bad manners, but my dislike of bad manners is directed at other dogs taking food that isn't allocated to them, or staring down others who are trying to eat. I don't consider animals defending their food against others who are being rude, "bad manners". If I'm in a restaurant, and a stranger takes chips off my plate, should I smile and let it happen? Or should I tell them to stick to their own plate?

If I can take the bowl/bone/biscuit from my dogs then I am happy but I don't do it unless I really need to, because I understand it can create anxiety. If they growl at another animal for trying the same thing, then I have screwed up in my management of the situation because it should never get that far. Cats are another situation again, as others have mentioned, they speak a different language to both humans and dogs. It's up to you to keep the cat away. How you do that is up to you, but allowing a child or other animal to interfere with a dog while it is eating is acknowledged by experts to be a high risk situation for bites and attacks. If that bothers you, then perhaps dog ownership is not for you.

[CollieChaos]

@sheena, actually yes i do feed them together/have them interacting on a regular basis.

@juice, i do understand exactly what everyone is saying, im not simple. I just dont agree with it in context of my animals/my ideals :) The cat is indeed a siamese, he doesn't learn very quickly though like most siams lol he's a little special in the head. Squirt bottles are basically the only thing that makes him move away from whatever undesirable behaviour he chooses (his favourite activity is bread stealing if we happen to leave bread out.....worst carnivor ever!)