Food Aggression Towards The Cats

[CollieChaos]

My new puppy (well he's 4 months old now, so not so new anymore), has been exhibiting food aggression towards one of my cats. It's only ever been when he has been eating and my Siamese (the most confident of my 4 cats, and his BEST friend) comes over to eat some of his food with him (not something I encourage, I do try to get the cat away when he comes to scab food). Orion, the puppy, will growl at the cat, and this morning I gave him some wet food (more high value), and he snapped at Raikou (pronounced rye-koo, the siamese) when he came over for a bite. This is totally unacceptable in my books, and have been giving him a stern NO and taking the food away.....what else can I do? I don't want my cats to get hurt just because he is being a jerk

[Cosmolo]

Put the puppy somewhere where the cat cannot approach to steal his food. It is a rare dog that will allow another animal to come and steal food from them- he's not being a jerk, he is being a dog.

Punishing the dog for resource guarding and taking his food away is likely to increase the associated anxiety and actually worsen the resource guarding behaviour over time.

[persephone]

The dog is being a dog ..not a jerk.

Why should he allow the cat to eat his food ?

provided he behaves well at mealtimes ..ie: sits & waits for his dinner .... does not object to you collecting the bowl ..and is learning to "Give" when asked ... (be it a toy, or a stolen leg of lamb;) ) Then warning the cat wouldn't concern me ...

You may want to read the following :)

what is her favourite favourite food?I train "gimmee" (out , here, means go out of a room /house/yard) with yummy food treats if on a favourite toy..I swap ..Command given, treat waved in front of nose,Dog releases toy ..a treat gets shoved in, and much praise is given,.repeat, repeat ...">I also do a similar thing with YUK! for objects which dog is not allowed to have back ..stolen items, dangerous items etc . A shout of YUK ..means instant spit ..and backpedal...

Edited April 3, 2013 by persephone

[Salukifan]

Either feed the pup in a crate or lock the cat up when the pup is eating. Far better to prevent this behaviour than deal with any fallout.

Dogs shouldn't be expected to understand or comply with human notions about sharing. If the cat isn't heeding your dogs very clear warning signal to back off then a snap is the logical next step. Your dog is not a jerk but following appropriate dog etiquette. Sadly, your cat lives by another, feline, set of rules.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Haredown Whippets

[CollieChaos]

Whilst I do appreciate the advice, I am after methods for training him not to snap at my cats, not reasons for why it is ok for him to do this. I would rather a fix, than a bandaid (like putting him in his crate). I don't want to end up with an adult dog (he's a border collie) that might attack my cats if they come near him whilst he is chewing a treat, or eating his dinner. Typically the cats are fed first, then him, and it is done in seperate rooms, today however he was fed a little later than the cats, hence why the siamese came wandering. I don't want him to share his dinner, as the cat has cat food for a reason, I just don't want him to snap at the cats if they happen to wander close without me noticing.

[persephone]

feeding animals seperately is not 'bandaid' ..it's 'management' .. When my cats are fed outside their room , say in the kitchen,.dogs are not present .

When the dogs eat ..the cats have learnt to not approach ...or they are put somewhere else.

kinda like feeding a baby in a high chair ..not letting it crawl on the table ? ;)

[Salukifan]

An ounce of prevention IS worth a ton of cure.

There is a lot of thinking amongst dog trainers that resource guarding is a hard wired behaviour than cannot be "trained out" but only managed.

It's already been pointed out to you that correcting for the behaviour and removing the resource can actually exacerbate the problem. Short of allowing your cats to approach his bowl and madly rewarding lack of reaction, I'm at a loss to recommend anything that won't potentially create more harm than good. And of course, what happens when you aren't next to that food bowl will be a whole different set of circumstances anyway.

I dont' allow any of my dogs to interfere with each other's meals.. ever. I really don't see what's so "bandaid" about it.

[Dame Aussie]

An ounce of prevention IS worth a ton of cure.

There is a lot of thinking amongst dog trainers that resource guarding is a hard wired behaviour than cannot be "trained out" but only managed.

It's already been pointed out to you that correcting for the behaviour and removing the resource can actually exacerbate the problem. Short of allowing your cats to approach his bowl and madly rewarding lack of reaction, I'm at a loss to recommend anything that won't potentially create more harm than good. And of course, what happens when you aren't next to that food bowl will be a whole different set of circumstances anyway.

I dont' allow any of my dogs to interfere with each other's meals.. ever. I really don't see what's so "bandaid" about it.

I agree with this,. I don't think any training you do for this would be reliable enough to depend on.

How is keeping them fed seperately a bandaid solution? It's about managing the animals you have.

[CollieChaos]

Thanks for your input. I am going to consult a professional instead.

[Salukifan]

Thanks for your input. I am going to consult a professional instead.

You got free advice from a well respected professional in the first response in this thread.

[persephone]

You got free advice from a well respected professional in the first response in this thread.

:) Indeed you did.

Plus another 60 or so years of dog owning/training experience from other posters ....

But, personal sessions with a professional can often sort out other problems as well :) Hope it all works for you...

[CollieChaos]

You got free advice from a well respected professional in the first response in this thread.

How am I supposed to know that they are a dog trainer?

My aim with my dog is obviously different from the ideals that are held here, which there is nothing wrong with that, it just doesnt suit what I want from my dog, and I do not think my expectations are unrealistic, and I do think that he can be helped, its just a matter of finding someone who can help us and at least trying :)

Here they are playing together, just because I like to show them off :p

[persephone]

:) They are both beautiful.... and how well does that cat match your flooring?? :D

If you go to the'members 'section ..then enter in names of folks in whom you're interested ..you may find some interesting and useful information ;)

[Cosmolo]

I don't say this to be rude so please don't get offended but your expectations are not reasonable.

I run a 5 dog household. My dogs are all fed in the same room or yard. All 5 dogs are taught it is never okay to approach to steal or share with the other dogs. If they do they are stopped and redirected so that the dog who is going to be stolen from knows that i will take care of the situation and there is no need to guard or become anxious. Resource guarding is anxiety based so it is unwise to punish the dog at all or remove their food.

You can attempt to teach the cat not to approach the dogs bowl if you wish though i'd doubt the reliability when you're not directly supervising. You could reward the dog in the cats presence while he is eating whilst maintaining a 'critical distance'- ie, the cat needs to be at a distance where the dog is aware of his presence but not reactive and you reward at this point to maintain or increase a level of tolerance to the cats presence (not approach) whilst eating but again i'd not rely on this unsupervised.

But the dog is not going to share with the cat and it is normal behaviour to let another animal know this. This is why others are also suggesting management- it's a simpler solution and is part of having a multi animal household. There is nothing wrong with management.

[juice]

And yet again someone who comes here for advice, gets given rock solid info, and because it doesn't suit them is childish.

This is getting boring. :laugh:

[Her Majesty Dogmad]

You got free advice from a well respected professional in the first response in this thread.

How am I supposed to know that they are a dog trainer?

My aim with my dog is obviously different from the ideals that are held here, which there is nothing wrong with that, it just doesnt suit what I want from my dog, and I do not think my expectations are unrealistic, and I do think that he can be helped, its just a matter of finding someone who can help us and at least trying :)

Here they are playing together, just because I like to show them off :p

Sorry, I have to correct your thinking here - what people are expressing here are not "ideals". They are facts based on tons of experience! You are the one with the "ideals" about your dog and cats and how they should interact.

I work in rescue. I frequently have more than 5 dogs in my house - they are all supervised carefully during meal times and eat in separate locations. Treats are not left lying around, I supervise them as they eat them to ensure no problems. I won't rehome certain dogs to certain situations, I observe them carefully. If a potential owner doesn't understand the importance of a particular dog needing to be fed separately then they don't get to adopt the dog, simple as that - they'd only be returned so I wouldn't put the dog through it. That said, it isn't that common as an issue for my adoptions.

I regularly hear about people getting rid of dogs because they are "food aggressive" or "greedy" ie they keep eating my other dog's food .... Most recently a victim of this "food aggression" was a small terrier. She'd been left to feed outside - dinners chucked on the ground - with 2 bigger dogs. She "didn't get much to eat" - I quote the stupid owner, because one of the bigger dogs "was greedy and didn't let her eat her food".

On the last occasion, the big dog actually mauled the little one. We got her covered in bite wounds and skeletal.

It wouldn't have helped that they were all undesexed either.

Edited April 4, 2013 by dogmad

[CollieChaos]

Woah ok this is the last time I come asking for advice. Sorry if what I want from my animals, doesn't match what others want. I'm not trying to argue that others methods are wrong, or dont work, just that they dont match my ideals for my pets. I will continue to just read threads and be in the background, instead of trying to be part of the "community".

Sorry.

[persephone]

I hope you can acheive your goal ..me? I prefer to just manage the critters :)

[Salukifan]

Since we are talking about "ideals", let me express mine.

I don't punish my dogs for expressing unwanted natural behavior that I can, with simple management, prevent. My young Whippet would hassle my 15 year old poodle while he ate because that's what dogs do. Pack orders are heirarchies not communes. The only way I'm going to train that young dog NOT to do it is by using aversives. And I think aversives should be a case of last resort. He knows that he's not allowed to do it because I stop it happening if he tries. But if I wasn't there? It would be quite different - dogs are good situational learners. So I avoid conflict around food by feeding the young dog in a crate and supervising the oldest dog so that he doesn't have to worry about being hassled.

You want to train your dog "not to do something" while you're distracted. The ONLY chance you have is to make the consequences for the dog so unpleasant, that' he's actually going to avoid the behaviour in ANY circumstances.. what is might happen is that the dog will avoid the aversive, leave his food and the cat will scoff it. Is that the outcome you want? Alternatively, the dog might see that cat approaching, associate the cat's approach with unpleasant consequences anticipate the aversive and attack the cat to prevent its application. Is that an ideal result?

You really need to think through the consequences of attemping to extinguish a natural canine behavioural response to competition for food - sometimes the consequences are not what you aimed to achieve.

[Simply Grand]

CC, do consider what Cosmolo has said, she is a highly regarded trainer.

It sounds as though Orion and puddy get along well most of the time, it's just when Orion is eating that you have this issue? How did the cat react to Orion's snap? If it is only an issue with food, especially high value food, and the cat backed off I'd be inclined to accept it as part of their relationship and manage them as suggested.

My poor old cat is a big sook so he is mostly kept separately from the dogs. They are not aggressive towards him but they get waaaay to excited and rough trying to play with him and he never stands up to them (not that that's really relevant to your situation :laugh: )

Between my three dogs there are a few different resource guarding dynamics. With their normal food the biggest dog, who is the youngest, is generally the 'boss' of things, she is happy to share with the middle dog but he looks at her for permission before he approaches - they each have their own bowls but are fed next to each other and sometimes swap around a bit. The smallest (oldest) dog won't eat normal, low value food when the big one is near because she will tell him off just coz she can, so he is fed in a separate spot.

When it comes to certain things, rawhide chews, bones and certain toys, the littlest one stands up to the biggest one though and if lest unattended I think it could escalate into a full blown fight and the little one could be seriously hurt. Therefore they only have access to those particular things when I am there to keep them far enough away from each other that they stay focussed on their own thing.

They have basically sorted out these dynamics themselves, and things have changed with each new addition. I feel like this is natural behaviour for them based on what they value and how they see each other. I see my role as overseeing and managing them all so they are all safe and happy.

By the way, they are each individually happy to have me touch them, touch their food, remove things from them etc etc if I need to, and if the do start to scuffle they will stop when I growl at them so in that respect I think they are appropriately trained and don't have a resource guarding problem per se.

So anyway that's my rather long winded two cents worth :)

Edited April 4, 2013 by Simply Grand