Dory the Doted One Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Ok. If that is how you (meaning you) read it. I'm not going to get in an endless argument. I know what meant. Thank you to those who took it in the vein it was meant. A question. Not a judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Thanks clover. Its really horrible and Im still really pissed off about it. The fact the owner knew and still walked her dog when it weighed twice as much as her and she couldnt control it absolutely shits me to tears. Edited March 25, 2013 by raz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebanne Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Thanks clover. Its really horrible and Im still really pissed off about. It never really goes away. It's many years now since my medium crossbred was attacked by a GSD. Luckily only minor damage but trying to get her to go near that area again took months. The owner said oh that's strange he usually likes small dogs. It was a DA dog and as soon as I saw it I had my dog back by my side but it ran a long way to get to us. I reported it cause I knew where it lived. Still pisses me off and it's over 10 years ago now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Fox Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Dory's very socialable, she loves meeting new dogs. She's also not over the top and happy to have a quick sniff then move on. I see so many paranoid owners walking their dogs. They almost flinch every time they see another dog. It's quite sad. Dogs need a social life too. I feel like I need to carry a sign that says, "Yes. She's friendly. Yes, they can say Hello. " not just so Dory can continue her socialization, but so other dogs can actually get some. http://www.friendlydogcollars.com.au/ ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raz Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 It never really goes away. It's many years now since my medium crossbred was attacked by a GSD. Luckily only minor damage but trying to get her to go near that area again took months. The owner said oh that's strange he usually likes small dogs. It was a DA dog and as soon as I saw it I had my dog back by my side but it ran a long way to get to us. I reported it cause I knew where it lived. Still pisses me off and it's over 10 years ago now. Yep Reb. So true. Even the ACO I reported it to said the same thing. Way too many irresponsible morons out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) I'm all for dogs learning to socialise with each other. BUT it has to be in a situation that's controlled to some extent, & supervised by people who have like minds. Running into strangers with their dogs when out walking doesn't have that control built in (even despite council regulations to keep dogs on a leash in most public places) ... and you have no idea what's going on in the mind of that stranger (or the dog!) Fair enough ... on those occasions when like-minded people with good control over their dogs will negotiate some careful socialisation as they pass. BUT there's too many incidents where people have had poor control over their dogs and have no sense how they can affect other people & their pets. Results have been traumatic.... or even tragic... for some poor innocent dog & owner. Just one bad experience can be enough, tho' some people have had more than one. I've had more than one & will only walk our tibbies around the nearby shopping centre.... & never out on the walking tracks nearby, where dogs are walked & exercised. There's always trouble waiting to happen. Edited March 25, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tara8430 Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I was out walking my girl this morning and spotted a pup loose no one in sight, it wasnt on the road but the roads busy and pups have no road sense, i just kept walking hoping it would just come straight to my girl and it did and it ended up being a little yellow lab pup most likely only about 10 weeks old, couldnt believe it i was so shit scared it was going to run on the road eventually the owners came out just scooped her up and took her back in no thank you sorry or anything.... im now wishing i would have kept walking and it followed me home, with owners like that the poor little pup doesnt stand a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Dogs need a social life too. Dogs needs to be socialised but socialisation isn't about letting them meet and greet other dogs. Don't we tell people to SOCIALISE there dogs? I assumed (incorrectly it would seem), that that would include other dogs. (Unless your dog obviously doesn't enjoy it then it, then no it wouldn't). I think the message we give people to socialise their dogs can have detrimental effects if we don't also explain to them what socialisation means and how to do it properly. Socialisation is about giving your pup a new experience and assigning that experience a value, and it is about teaching a puppy how to behave in new environments. If you let your dog develop a super high value for other dogs, higher than what their value is for you and the rewards you have to offer, you will often end up with a dog that shows behaviour you don't like. Lunging on the leash at other dogs, ignoring you in favour of playing with other dogs, wanting to "say hello" to every dog it sees regardless of whether you want it to or not etc are some of the most common training issues people experience with their dogs. Some dogs do like playing with others dogs but this is also something that many people socialise their dogs to enjoy and get value from, from a very early age. Some dogs owners like to see their dogs playing with lots of other dogs and that is ok if that is what they want and it doesn't cause other issues for them. I don't do that with my dogs and their lives are definitely not lacking. Edited March 25, 2013 by huski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
megan_ Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think trainers really should pick another word and drop "socialisation" - too many people think it is the free-for-all meet and greet. Any good trainer will tell you this isn't what you want to do with a dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I think trainers really should pick another word and drop "socialisation" - too many people think it is the free-for-all meet and greet. Any good trainer will tell you this isn't what you want to do with a dog. That is why we refer to is as neutralisation, we posted an article on this very topic just last month. Anyone interested can read it here; :) http://k9pro.com.au/services/socialisation-what-is-it-exactly/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loving my Oldies Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) I am always wary of any approaching dog or person now when out with my small dog. I simply pick him up when any dog is coming towards us or people. Purely for his safety I don't trust anyone anymore. I know where you're coming from with that (my other half does that too) - problem is the message you're giving your dog there. Yes, this is a case where you are damned if you do and possibly damned if you don't. :) Sometimes you just can't cross the street if you are concerned about another dog (or your own dog for that matter). In the final analysis, you have to do what keeps your dog safe. My two are highly reactive to other dogs so the first dog we met, I had them well up someone's driveway shovelling treats in them. Oh, thank goodness there is someone else out that who does that . My 3.5kg dog is very reactive and I am getting good at standing close to a parked car, ducking down a driveway and shovelling treats into 5 little dogs. 3 are controlled by just pulling their leads and telling them to stop, but Myrtie gets them all stirred up, so it is important to get her under control and the treats at the ready. It is working too and regularly now, a quiet but stern "Myrtie" does the trick. i get more pissed off with the people who walk their dogs without a lead, like they are bragging that their dog is so obedient that it doesnt need a lead. There is a dickhead around here like that. His dog is a gorgeous dog and very very well behaved, but he shouldn't risk its safety so he can show off. I agree it *shouldn't* be this way. But it is, so you deal with it. That's the bugger of it. Turns walks into a constant how-do-I-manage-the-unforeseen situation rather than a pleasant stroll around the neighbourhood. Edited March 25, 2013 by Danny's Darling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mita Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) Socialization needs to be defined & specified. Dog-to-dog socialization, is different from dog-to-human socialization. Dog behaviour & its norms are involved in the first. In the second, dogs are learning to live with another species. Best articles I know of on the issue, point out that human expectations about dog-to-dog socialisation are often totally misguided (from the Animal Humane Society). Humans can project norms for human socialization on to dogs. First article points that out, the second gets down to looking at dogs interacting with dogs. IMO I wouldn't change the label to 'neutralisation' because it's anything but neutral. http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/training/library/socializing-adult-dog and http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/training/library/are-they-having-good-time Edited March 25, 2013 by mita Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiverStar-Aura Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Dory's very socialable, she loves meeting new dogs. She's also not over the top and happy to have a quick sniff then move on. I see so many paranoid owners walking their dogs. They almost flinch every time they see another dog. It's quite sad. Dogs need a social life too. I feel like I need to carry a sign that says, "Yes. She's friendly. Yes, they can say Hello. "not just so Dory can continue her socialization, but so other dogs can actually get some. Of course I flinch when I see other dogs approaching. Not because I'm worried about them attacking us, but because I own two highly dog reactive dogs. If that makes me paranoid, so be it. I'd rather try and stop my dogs lunging, barking and sounding feral than force the other dog to become involved in such an avoidable situation. The problem with my guys is that it's all just noise. If they're allowed to actually sniff the dog, the barking, lunging and growling stops. By your comment, my guys could have a "hey, we're friendly" sign too, but it'll read "hey, we're friendly, just completely noisy and feral sounding but don't let that put you off because we only really want to say hello". I don't want to encourage their horrible behaviour so I cross the road, walk up someone's driveway and shovel treats into them before they even notice the other dog(s) approaching. It makes for a much less stressful walk. Oh, and they do have a "social life" because they're absolutely fine at the off leash park. They just go feral when they're on leash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSoSwift Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 My dogs are well socialised. They can go through a large crowd of people and not care, they enjoy being patted and talked to by said people - one more than the otehr. They can work and be around a large group or dogs of varying breeds and sizes and not care. They go out and about in the big wide world and are confident and happy. That is what I call socilaised. I do not want my dogs to attribute a really high reward value to random dogs, one becasue I want them to see me as the prime focus, but also because not all random dogs like having a dog hurtle up to them regardless of how friendly it is. I do not see the value in having my dogs play with any and every dog out and about. I have no idea if theya re carrying an infectious disease, full of fleas or might take offence to my dog and then I have an injured dog. Whippets are not hard to damage. I teach my dogs neutralisation as I do not see anything beneficial arrising from the average persons idea of socialisation. My understanding is dogs are friendly to those inside their pack however big or small but it is not normal for them to be friendly to dogs from a different pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kavik Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Those are good articles mita! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huski Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 IMO I wouldn't change the label to 'neutralisation' because it's anything but neutral. I'm not sure if you read the article I posted above Mita where it is explained what we mean when we use that term, but when you are raising a dog and are socialising it, what are you aiming to achieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HazyWal Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 i get more pissed off with the people who walk their dogs without a lead, like they are bragging that their dog is so obedient that it doesnt need a lead. Yes this is one of my pet hates and I'm very vocal about it. We have two offleash beaches and a large offleash park here but apparantly people think the whole bloody suburb is off leash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halfthewords Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Carl is excellent with other dogs, even the really forward ones who want to jump all over him, so I generally am fine with him being approached as long as the other dog doesn't have raised hackles and a tail standing straight up, etc. Mischa on the other hand, being only 3kgs, I just either keep her right next to me or pick her up. Isn't worth it. She's 10 and it only takes one snap from another dog to cause serious problems, so I'm not even willing to risk it most of the time. Luckily she doesn't care about other dogs apart from Carl either way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuddleDuck Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 If someone comes toward me with a dog intent on playing and says 'its ok, he's friendly' I generally yell back that mine are not and will bite. Generally that gets them to back off :laugh: mine are both insanely friendly but I'd rather not take the risk Honestly is it any wonder so many people don't walk their dogs? It ends up being a terrifying experience! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steph M Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Dory's very socialable, she loves meeting new dogs. She's also not over the top and happy to have a quick sniff then move on. I see so many paranoid owners walking their dogs. They almost flinch every time they see another dog. It's quite sad. Dogs need a social life too. I feel like I need to carry a sign that says, "Yes. She's friendly. Yes, they can say Hello. " not just so Dory can continue her socialization, but so other dogs can actually get some. http://www.friendlydogcollars.com.au/ ;-) These are just the best idea. Doesn't solve all the problems, but it's pretty black and white to me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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