Sick Of Wankers

[grumpette]

There's no way I would have kept approaching if the other person showed no sign of wanting to reign in the dog. As it is, I cross the street whenever someone is approaching. If you pass on the same side of the road, you have to expect the dogs to investigate each other, unless the other dog is very clearly extremely well trained. I would expect no less than a face to face greeting if I stayed on the path with another dog approaching. If you don't want that to happen, avoid it by crossing the road or going onto the grass or picking up the dog etc.

I agree it *shouldn't* be this way. But it is, so you deal with it.

Good advice fuzzy82 - it shouldn't have to be, but you have to use common sense when it comes to your dog's safety.

Sometimes common sense and avoidance don't work because of the stupidity of the other dog owner. Today I was walking all three of mine, all on lead and perfectly under control, and we had stopped to talk to a good friend and her kids (the kids would not continue to walk home until they got a pat :D ). I saw a guy approaching us with his heeler X on lead, so I moved over and put all the dogs on a drop. Well he diverted and continued to walk straight for us intent on letting his dog meet and greet mine I asked him if he could keep his distance and my friend stepped in front of the still dropped and calm dogs. Thankfully he diverted again and passed at a distance. I mean who the hell is stupid enough to allow their dog to greet three random large dogs at once

Later that day I took each of them, one at a time, to the local market and they got to play with a gorgeous brindle staffy X, a kelpie X and a SWF with no drama or trouble

Do you think he approached you because your three were calm and perfectly behaved?

If he was looking to socialize his dog then your three would have appeared to be perfect (to him) even though it was far from that for you.

SchnauzerMax, he may have but I was not prepared to risk pack mentality taking over. Zeph is quite social but can be cocky. Dee is generally wary due to being attacked before. They tend to be bolder when together. Baylee is old (nearly 11 years old) and can growl if bumped during play due to arthritis. So three on one is just plain stupid.

If I only had Zeph then maybe, as he has been taught to drop when meeting smaller dogs so that he is not so intimidating to them. Dee would only get to say hello if it was a male that was not too forward.

[grumpette]

OMG RSG was Kira OK?

Kira injury toll: ear puncture, cut lip, gash on paw, bit of blood all over (probably not all hers)

3 year old daughter injury toll: tears, shock, some nightmares & a fear of taking her doggy for a walk in case 'scary doggies come back'

Kira was over it pretty much next day once she calmed down, no scars or anything, but Edie still (few months down track) regularly mentions scary doggies biting Kira

As the topic title says.....

I am so sorry that the beautiful Edie has been affected so badly, but so glad that Kira is OK. I really hope that Edie can learn to enjoy walking her doggie again without fear. I am so sorry

[hankdog]

My area is full of off leashers. I thought I was just over sensitive because my boy is DA but have met 2 people who have recently moved into the suburb who complain about the high number of large off leash dogs. People look at my boy as if he is awful but they don't realise how quickly their "friendly" rushing over for an "in your face" greeting will turn into an awful DA dog when he gets the wrong reception. Just today had to deal with a roaming fairly aggressive cattle dog and a possibly just overly friendly husky cross. My most dreaded creature is mum with pram and kids who refuses to leash her exuberant Newfie because its too hard to control him and the pram!!!!Seriously.

[OSoSwift]

I've had several nasty experiences when walking my dogs, and am always on the lookout for approaching dogs or loose dogs. But its amazing how much more nervous I am since I got the Iggies. My big dogs at least can defend themselves, the Iggies wouldn't stand a chance. I always walk them with my big dogs and am thinking about carrying a stick too.

Same for me going from Dobes and a Stafford to the Whippets

[claireybell]

We recently were in a situation where an aggravated dog was running towards us off lead at the park. My young son (18 months) was put up on my shoulders while my husband stood in front. My normally lazy/placid beagle X started circling us with her heckles up. When the aggressive dog got close she bared her teeth with a low growl to give a warning to the other dog. The stupid owner comes over finally and tells us its ok his dog his friendly. No buddy its not, it had its heckles up, teeth bared and you could clearly see it was ready to attack. Oh yeah the guy says, he doesn't really like kids. WTH! We were in the playground area of the park.

I've never ever seen my beagle X get aggressive with anything or anyone and she's 5 next month. Although we were all really shaken I was so proud of her for protecting her family.

[corvus]

I usually take my dogs off the path and have them sit on the grassy verge if there is one. We do this for other dogs, people with prams or small children, elderly people, people walking in a group, and people in work clothes if they give us the chance. If there's a low wall or brick/stone fence, I get the dogs to sit up there where they are well out of the way. If we can't get off the footpath it can be very difficult. My dogs are friendly and very extensively socialised, and they do not seem to think it's polite to ignore a dog right in front of their face spewing signals at them. Seems understandable to me. I socialised them extensively so they would know what to do about signals being spewed in their face and they are trying to respond appropriately.

The world is full of dogs that are uneasy about their own kind. My two dogs were deliberately exposed to all manner of 'randoms' with varying degrees of social skills. We live in suburbia. Like it or not, they will encounter such dogs, often off leash, on a daily basis. It was really not that hard to keep them safe. We even go to the fenced dog park these days. It's far from an ideal place for dogs to socialise and we avoided it for ages, but the boys are GOOD. It's very hard to rattle them.

[kitkatswing]

We walk Maui offleash quite a lot (in an area where we can)... Every time I see another dog approaching I watch carefully. If they start to reign in their dog then I immediatly put Maui on leash also. Its just not worth it..

About an year ago I was playing with him in the park behind our house (no-one there at all) when a big dog came rushing towards us, leash dragging behind... Thankfully Maui was within arm distance (playing tug) and I was able to scoop him up. The dog was circling us and I really thought it was going to attack. Maui was growing and carrying on, wanting to protect me, but I wasnt letting go..

The dogs "owner" came aroudn the corner calling him and managed to get a hold of the dog, he even had the gall to say I was lucky I picked my dog up as his dog would have attacked him!!! I was just too shaken to say anything back to him...

I later found out that this dog has attacked another dog before. I regret not following the idiot to see where he lived...

[hankdog]

So what's the solution? I was thinking whilst out walking that maybe in order to get your dog licensed you should have to attend some sort of training session? Would that even help though or are these people not going to care. My guess is their dogs are off leash because they don't have leash manners and would be pulling their owners arms off. No more off leash parks, do you think they encourage the attitude that it's ok to walk in the streets off leash?

[megan_]

Policing existing laws would be a good start hankdog. I have never seen a ranger at any at the on leash parks I walk at. Never seen one on the street. That, and nice BIG fines. If people know they will get caught and the fine will hurt them then it will be easier just to put their dog on a leash.

[megan_]

I usually take my dogs off the path and have them sit on the grassy verge if there is one. We do this for other dogs, people with prams or small children, elderly people, people walking in a group, and people in work clothes if they give us the chance. If there's a low wall or brick/stone fence, I get the dogs to sit up there where they are well out of the way. If we can't get off the footpath it can be very difficult. My dogs are friendly and very extensively socialised, and they do not seem to think it's polite to ignore a dog right in front of their face spewing signals at them. Seems understandable to me. I socialised them extensively so they would know what to do about signals being spewed in their face and they are trying to respond appropriately.

The world is full of dogs that are uneasy about their own kind. My two dogs were deliberately exposed to all manner of 'randoms' with varying degrees of social skills. We live in suburbia. Like it or not, they will encounter such dogs, often off leash, on a daily basis. It was really not that hard to keep them safe. We even go to the fenced dog park these days. It's far from an ideal place for dogs to socialise and we avoided it for ages, but the boys are GOOD. It's very hard to rattle them.

Genetics play a big part in how a dog behaves too. That, and past history. I'm not comfortable with the assertion that if a dog is reactive their owner has failed to socialise them properly. The leading trainers world wide suggest that you need to have a planned, safe approach to exposing dogs to novel things.

Some dogs in my neighborhood would kill my dogs if given the chance. I'm not going to let them send those signals to my dogs. I would rather teach my dogs that I will remove them from harms way and they don't need to fight back.

[Aidan3]

I don't think there is a solution, hankdog, but I do know that it makes a big difference when dog owners can train themselves to keep calm when a stray dog rushes up to them. It won't stop a dog hell-bent on doing damage, but it will avoid those problems which can be avoided.

Other than that, choose your walking route carefully, and report any known problem dogs and make sure the council has followed up.

[pawsaroundoz]

I know the problems here, my youngster (soon to be 4 yr old) had been attacked 3 times before he was 3, twice by dogs off leash whilst he was on leash in street situations, twice involving lengthy vet intervention and me donating quite a sizable number of them pesky$$'s to vets next bmw!

Connor is slowly getting better, still very scared of dogs his size or larger but now accepts and plays with small dogs....a lot of my fellow motorhomer people have small dogs and Connor takes great delight in 'teaching' them how to play the 'race game'

Last Sunday evening we had a bit of a break through as I took both my boys to "WILLY WHIPPETS" a social group of Whippets and their people who meet at Newport, he (vocally) loved it! He told everyone else how much he loved it and had sniffs and plays and 'just hanging out-as blokes do' sessions with all the other Whippets there and along with the others seemed to gain some courage when other larger breeds came into our corner of the park.

I am so happy about this and hope that regular Sunday afternoons will make him even more confident with other dogs.

annie

[Diva]

I don't think there is a solution, hankdog, but I do know that it makes a big difference when dog owners can train themselves to keep calm when a stray dog rushes up to them.

Yeah after the GSD incident it took me a long time to regain my calmness in the face of loose dogs, but I have to at least fake it for my dogs' sake. It makes a world of difference.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Diva

[Brookestar]

Policing existing laws would be a good start hankdog. I have never seen a ranger at any at the on leash parks I walk at. Never seen one on the street. That, and nice BIG fines. If people know they will get caught and the fine will hurt them then it will be easier just to put their dog on a leash.

That I can totally agree with. There is no point in the laws if no one is there to enforce them. I respect that council animal control officers cannot be in all places at all times, but never is the truth. I have seen them walking the streets here to make sure dogs are registered, but even if they come across dogs wandering 20 metres ahead of someone, who is talking on the phone, and the dog not on lead they do nothing. All they do is check the collar for a registration tag!!!!!!!!!

I do not allow my dogs to socialise with other dogs on leash. Dog parks are there for that purpose. She has no need to walk up to every dog she sees on the street. And walking up to every dog and sniffing them is not socialisation and actually creates rude dogs. Dogs do not naturally greet each other face to face, they do so side to side, and approach from the side, they also get permission from the other dog before doing so. Owners leading the dog up to the other dog is not socialising the dog, and is if anything creating a massive problem.

My dog will ignore other dogs on leash, I have no need to rein her in, having said that I walk her on a short leash, otherwise she gets caught up in it. She does not walk in a heal position, but does walk very close to me. She has plenty of time to play with known dogs at the dog park. Most of those are of dogs I know and choose for her to interact with.

I come across aggressive and out of control dogs on a daily basis, the vast majority of them off lead, or pulled out to the end of a flexi, which should be outlawed, with owners who have no control of them. Often it is on main rods, at peak hour. I have had dogs ran across a road and get hit by a car doing so, only to have the owner abuse me for there nearly dead dog, because the dog would not have done it if my dog was not there. My dog was walking on a lead on the other side of the road!!!!!!!! I call the council complaining about them almost every day. I take photo's of registration tags if I get close enough to the dog, or of the house they have run out off. To date the council has never done anything at all.

There are some places I simply will not walk my dog as it is not safe. I have a close friend with a Guide Dog and there are places she will not walk as idiots walk there doggy up to her Guide Dog in harness, to socialise it!!! Then the others off lead which cause even more prolems. There are major public places here, in which dogs are banned, but she cannot go to, due to the numbers of off leash and out of control dogs!! The places are owned by council, even less reason for them not the be there.

[corvus]

I'm not comfortable with the assertion that if a dog is reactive their owner has failed to socialise them properly. The leading trainers world wide suggest that you need to have a planned, safe approach to exposing dogs to novel things.

Then it's a good thing that's not what I asserted at all.

What makes you think a planned, safe approach to exposing dogs to novelty can't involve strange dogs? I can read a dog. Can't you? I pick my environments, carry treats for counter-conditioning, and have escape routes and contingencies planned. I just remain mystified that everybody seems to have such problems with loose dogs and I do not. I've had my dogs off leash in more parks and on more beaches than I can keep track of and they have never been injured and they both still quite like other dogs. And it's not like they are both magical dogs with phenomenal temperaments. Kivi is, but Erik? E is not a disaster by any means, but he is pretty highly strung and for the first 6 months of his life Kivi was the only dog he'd get close enough to for a social exchange.

I think that poor socialisation (both over and under) are serious problems and there is a push from a lot of world class trainers to calm down about socialisation and do it on the dog's terms. We did that, and did it a lot, and we have two vastly different dogs that are both remarkably unphased by most socially inappropriate behaviour from other dogs. I'm sure genes helped us, but so did not being scared to let them learn the ropes from other dogs. Well-meaning people seem to find this very confronting. I'm sorry, all I can do is relate our experiences. I'm just glad I don't have to worry much about loose dogs. I take my dogs out twice a day. Life would suck if I couldn't relax and enjoy that time with them. I don't know what I would do. I need our afternoon outings especially to unwind.

[Diva]

I'm not comfortable with the assertion that if a dog is reactive their owner has failed to socialise them properly. The leading trainers world wide suggest that you need to have a planned, safe approach to exposing dogs to novel things.

Then it's a good thing that's not what I asserted at all.

What makes you think a planned, safe approach to exposing dogs to novelty can't involve strange dogs? I can read a dog. Can't you? I pick my environments, carry treats for counter-conditioning, and have escape routes and contingencies planned. I just remain mystified that everybody seems to have such problems with loose dogs and I do not. I've had my dogs off leash in more parks and on more beaches than I can keep track of and they have never been injured and they both still quite like other dogs. And it's not like they are both magical dogs with phenomenal temperaments.

I went for years without a bad incident with a loose dog, and I used to post much like Corvus does on this issue, I couldn't understand why others had problems when my dogs always just handled it. They had great social skills. I would walk the streets for miles without any issue, loose dogs never posed a threat.

Then I moved suburbs, and discovered how much of my previous sense of safety was just luck and geography.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Diva

[Aidan3]

Dogs do not naturally greet each other face to face, they do so side to side, and approach from the side, they also get permission from the other dog before doing so.

I agree that polite dogs don't approach too directly, but it is polite for dogs to greet face to face.

[megan_]

I don't think there is a solution, hankdog, but I do know that it makes a big difference when dog owners can train themselves to keep calm when a stray dog rushes up to them. It won't stop a dog hell-bent on doing damage, but it will avoid those problems which can be avoided.

Other than that, choose your walking route carefully, and report any known problem dogs and make sure the council has followed up.

A hand full of easily accessible, big, smelly treats to throw down works wonders, with a deterrent spray as a backup. A well trained u-turn and "quick quick" is also a life saver. Of course none of these things will stop a large, powerful dog with a high pain threshold, but even pepper spray doesn't seem to work on those.

It is very hard to stay calm and not tell the wankers what you think of them, but this just seems to make your dog more anxious (she's screaming = those things must be very scarey).

Dogs In Need of Space have some great articles on dealing with off leash dogs.

[DakotaJ]

Just want to share two experiences which are related to this topic.

Two times in the last two months I have had dogs being walked on retractable leashes lunge and break the leashes and run over to my dog, not to attack but to play. Still this happened at a busy park (same place both times). Once the dog was a Border Collie, the second was a small sized cross breed. We were not close to these dogs and ours was well under control. The young lady walking the BC completely panicked so we had to hold our dog still and help her catch hers. Then she had a great deal of trouble getting him away without a lead. The other was with a man who grabbed him and picked him up - after chasing him round in circles.

My lesson from that is never use retractable leads, these were small dogs and it didn't take much effort for them to snap the leads. Luckily the dogs weren't aggressive.

If I see a dog coming I always tighten my lead and instruct my dog to heel. Lots of people seem to think it is ok to bring dogs together to "play" , I wish they wouldn't

[huga]

I have been tripped by a retractable lead. The lady holding on was not paying any attention to her dog at all, it bolted across the path in front of me to Sid and tripped me. Horrible things.

I walk my dog for exercise, not for socialisation - he doesn't need to 'talk' to other dogs. He has been attacked twice when on lead lately - the second incident was someone with a dog that didn't like us running and I nearly went arse up again when it tried to grab me. People need to pay attention to what is happening at the end of the lead.